Doesn't Pencil Out
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Doesn't Pencil Out (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jul 17, 2026 1:21 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by Ken [NY]) Jul 17, 2026 1:41 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by mapleaf18 [NY]) Jul 17, 2026 2:06 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by WMH [NC]) Jul 17, 2026 2:14 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by Deanna [TX]) Jul 17, 2026 2:28 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Jul 17, 2026 3:12 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by MikeA [TX]) Jul 17, 2026 3:18 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by MikeA [TX]) Jul 17, 2026 3:19 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by GKARL [PA]) Jul 17, 2026 3:46 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by zero [IN]) Jul 17, 2026 5:42 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by Bonanza [NC]) Jul 17, 2026 7:30 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by zero [IN]) Jul 17, 2026 8:51 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jul 18, 2026 6:45 AM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by zero [IN]) Jul 18, 2026 12:46 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by WMH [NC]) Jul 18, 2026 3:01 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by 6x6 [TN]) Jul 18, 2026 3:27 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by Oreo [WI]) Jul 18, 2026 6:53 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by Ken [NY]) Jul 18, 2026 11:12 PM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by 6x6 [TN]) Jul 19, 2026 8:15 AM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by JS [CA]) Jul 19, 2026 9:46 AM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jul 19, 2026 9:59 AM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by zero [IN]) Jul 19, 2026 11:23 AM
       Doesn't Pencil Out (by MC [PA]) Jul 20, 2026 7:06 AM

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Doesn't Pencil Out (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jul 17, 2026 1:21 PM
Message:

America had a love affair with ‘fixer-upper’ homes. That may be over

By

Samantha Delouya

For years, buying a home in need of work was seen as a more affordable path to homeownership and building wealth. Home makeover shows dominated TV, house-flipping became a booming business, and first-time buyers embraced the idea of trading sweat equity for a lower purchase price.

But lately, fixer-uppers have been falling out of favor.

This year, they are selling at a 14% discount compared to similar move-in-ready homes – the steepest discount Zillow has recorded in years. That’s nearly double from last year, when fixer-uppers sold for 7.3% less than comparable move-in-ready properties.

Before the Covid-19 pandemic, by contrast, homes described as “fixers,” “needs work,” “TLC” or having “good bones” were more likely to sell than comparable listings, according to Zillow.

For many Americans, the math behind buying a fixer-upper no longer pencils out. Tariffs, inflation and a shortage of construction workers have made home improvement projects significantly more expensive — and often more time-consuming — over the past few years.

Dozens of first-time homebuyers who purchased aging homes in need of work expressed a common theme to CNN: High home prices and elevated mortgage rates had already stretched their budgets thin, leaving little money for the renovations needed to make their homes livable.

Juli St. George, a real estate agent in Atlanta, told CNN she has noticed a shift in her clients in recent years. “The Chip and Joanna Gaines era has passed,” St. George said, referring to popular television personalities who rose to fame through the HGTV show “Fixer Upper.”

“Before, people were looking for grandma’s house where they get to make it their own and save up every quarter and make a new addition to their house,” she added. “It’s not happening anymore.”

(HGTV is owned by Warner Bros. Discovery, CNN’s parent company.)

When Molly and Matt Dodge bought their first home in Arlington, Vermont, this year, they knew it needed work. But they fell in love with the space, just over an acre, with enough bedrooms so that their two kids no longer needed to share.

Contractors quoted between $30,000 and $50,000 to replace their septic system, and thousands more to address the home’s growing list of problems, including: leaks, mold, ant infestations and carpenter bees. The couple has already spent about $10,000 on do-it-yourself repairs.

Months into their renovation process, Matt and Molly Dodge’s optimism has faded.

“We currently wish we built instead of bought,” Molly Dodge wrote to CNN last week in a moment of frustration.

Fixer-uppers are falling out of favor

For much of the 2010s, fixer-uppers offered a relatively straightforward path to building wealth: Buy a home at a discount, invest in renovations and watch rising home values offset the costs. But that calculation has changed.

Tariffs on building materials such as lumber and steel, along with the inflation surge that began in 2022, have driven up the cost of renovations. Meanwhile, a persistent shortage of construction workers has pushed labor costs even higher and slowed projects.

In a 2025 survey by the Associated General Contractors of America, the industry’s largest trade association, 45% of construction firm respondents said they had experienced project delays due to shortages of workers or subcontractors.

In April, prices for residential construction materials, excluding energy, rose at their fastest pace in three years, according to government data analyzed by the National Association of Homebuilders. The increases have continued since then: the latest data shows prices rose 4.6% over the past year.

The shift away from fixer-uppers also showed up in earnings reports from home improvement retailers. Home Depot and Lowe’s both told investors this year that homeowners are putting off larger home improvement projects – those often associated with fixer-upper homes.

In May, Lowe’s CEO Marvin Ellison called it “the most difficult housing market that I have faced in this business since the financial crisis,” adding that the weakness was concentrated among do-it-yourself customers.

When Luke VanFleet and his fiancée bought their first home this spring, they expected to spend money fixing up the 700-square-foot one-bedroom cottage in Traverse City, Michigan. But they were still shocked by the prices they were quoted.

VanFleet, 29, said three contractors quoted about $40,000 to replace the home’s rotting siding and aging windows, while another estimated $6,000 to install a basic heating and cooling unit. The bids were far beyond what the couple could afford.

We’re locked in for 30 years. We spent all this money to get locked in, and we are just trying to bring it up to a little bit more of a livable condition,” VanFleet said.

America’s homes are getting older

The average US home is 42 years old, up from 31 years two decades ago, according to the US Census Bureau.That reflects a long-running slowdown in home construction driven by rising expenses from materials and labor as well as changes in local zoning and permitting rules and lingering scars from the 2008 subprime mortgage collapse.

The result: Millions of Americans are living in homes that need significant repairs.

--98.17.xx.xx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Jul 17, 2026 1:41 PM
Message:

Good by me, get rid of the beginners and the pros can make money again.very difficult lately to find a profitable house to flip --38.248.xx.xxx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by mapleaf18 [NY]) Posted on: Jul 17, 2026 2:06 PM
Message:

Agreed. The under 40 set want "turnkey" although there is no such thing. --72.0.xxx.xx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jul 17, 2026 2:14 PM
Message:

Trouble is that so many contractors are so bad these days that building new is no guarentee that you get a trouble-free home. We all watch the Home Inspection videos on TikTok and YouTube (or should if we don't) and crimes are being committed daily behind sheetrock walls and under slabs and around windows and doors. Never mind plumbing and electrical and roofing.

And if it's a new build, many have REALLY spent their last dollar to buy it.

It's horrible.

I'd still take an older home over a new build these days, depending on when built... --73.216.xxx.xxx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Jul 17, 2026 2:28 PM
Message:

Fixer-uppers were awesome 2010-2015. Lots of things that just needed fresh paint, new light fixtures, maybe some flooring. By 2017-2018, all the easy stuff was picked over, just leaving the stuff needing significant systems replaced. If you're going to drop $50k on new plumbing, new HVAC, new panel, why not just pay for a house that's not a headache?

By 2020, the cost of paint and lumber at least doubled. More opportunities for savings disappeared.

When I started in 2011, I could be all-in on a house for about $20k. It might be a $10k house + a $10k renovation, or an $18k house with a $2k renovation or a $500 house with a $20k renovation. Nowadays, I'm all-in about $50k per house, and outsourced labor is a chunk of it because they're too much for a couple to work on during nights and weekends. --172.58.xxx.xx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Jul 17, 2026 3:12 PM
Message:

Tariffs are on tax on the American people where inflation with no income growth is pushing the Us economy into recession and a deeper recession. The objective to annex Canada to be a plunder state is never going to work as now has trade surplus with the rest of world where unemployment is high. Building a house here is expensive as 40 per cent fees by municipal government push up price. Free trade school is going to help Canadian economy over the long run as more jobs as military procurement with the Us has ended. Boycotts of Us goods are working as Us industries want them removed where tariffs continue. More and more people are discovering Canadian made products. Aluminium is now exported to the Eu countries where Aluminium smelters are 100 per cent capacity along Aluminium bought from non green produced aluminium is being sold to the Us as higher prices. No governments should ever do this as a free market economy is based on lower inflation and prices. Rent control is another example why government intervention never works. Inflation effects landlords as necessary repairs and renovations have to be done. Common sense not obsessions work where a sovereign country is going to continue. Hope in the future they end this with allies. --216.110.xxx.xxx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Jul 17, 2026 3:18 PM
Message:

I think this also is coupled with a much smaller percentage of the younger generation being willing to do hard manual labor associated with DIY. It's way too much work, they want to make a fixer upper make sense financially with it all hired out. Those deals are rarely out there for the average Joe looking to buy a house.

That trend will help RE investors who can get cheap houses and know how to fix and/or flip them with reasonably priced workers. --99.64.xx.xx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Jul 17, 2026 3:19 PM
Message:

By the way, history tends to repeat itself. This "new" trend has happened at least 3 times in my lifetime. --99.64.xx.xx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jul 17, 2026 3:46 PM
Message:

I saw that article earlier today. Renovations are much tougher today and the numbers simply don't work. I had a one bedroom, 1 bath cross my desk today for 160K and the place needs about 30-40K of work. Wholesaler is claiming comps between 210 to 350. The only problem is all of the comps were 2 and 3 bedrooms. You could probably make it a 2 bedroom but at the renovation costs, there's no meat on the bone for a flip or a hold. Market for a one bedroom/one bath is questionable for a flip. Doesn't make investment sense. --23.28.x.xxx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Jul 17, 2026 5:42 PM
Message:

Nailed it with the younger crowd doesn't want to do the work. I have dealt with this from my own kid. Sure was happy to take the place once it was done, but helping to get there was harder than pulling teeth.

I used to love the HGTV channel shows. I bought a lot of properties that people thought they could fix up in an hour with four commercial breaks.

Then everybody with a tape measure and a screw gun was a contractor or flipper.

Places were selling for more and the work was sub-standard at best.

Can't tell you the number of times a listing said new LVP flooring only for me to see huge gabs from where it was installed incorrectly. Also new paint that was splattered everywhere and looked like they put it on while blind folded. Plus they wanted top dollar for it.

Now places are sitting idle because the prices are so high and the rehab costs are almost the same as the selling price.

I still look for places, but it is hard to make a deal work when you have so much in it. --47.227.xx.xxx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Jul 17, 2026 7:30 PM
Message:

so if there are more and more things that are not made to last and people are not taking care (or even if they are) of their properties, how can you make money if your places are falling apart faster than you can fix them.

Maybe the whole housing industry is slipping into the waste basket. --65.188.xxx.xx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Jul 17, 2026 8:51 PM
Message:

Also, for the Canadian poster who doesn't pay attention...

Not everything is about tariffs, this country is doing a bit better than our northern friends and the US does NOT want Canada as a state. That was a poke from our president that you seem to think is truth.

We have enough people here with poor attitudes about us. We do not want, need or desire to add to the mix. --47.227.xx.xxx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jul 18, 2026 6:45 AM
Message:

Can I tariff this Canadian smoke?

Isn't Canada supposed to be clean? --98.17.xx.xx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Jul 18, 2026 12:46 PM
Message:

It's all green smoke Ray.

Healthier and better for the environment. --47.227.xx.xxx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jul 18, 2026 3:01 PM
Message:

Most of the smoke is from letting stuff burn on purpose, Zero. Done on purpose because if you always put out every fire immediately, as you probably know the deadwood builds up and then a huge fire can break out and be totally uncontrollable. Smokey the Bear is responsible for more devastation than you'd imagine! California has pretty much set itself on fire a lot because of aggressive firefighting in areas where they should just let it burn.

Canada, being mostly uninhabited, lets a lot of their fires burn to avoid the deadwood. This year is no exception and it's not even a bad year, really, but the 'heat dome' is keeping the smoke pressed to the ground and rolling south over us... --73.216.xxx.xxx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jul 18, 2026 3:27 PM
Message:

Those contractor prices sound like around here. That is exactly why the tools are still in my truck. --73.19.xxx.xx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by Oreo [WI]) Posted on: Jul 18, 2026 6:53 PM
Message:

6X: If we didn't use all the tools in our truck, we wouldn't be able to make it in this economy. --216.131.xx.xxx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Jul 18, 2026 11:12 PM
Message:

OREO-I dont do any work myself and real estate is my only household income, i dont even go to home depot anymore. If you have to do the work to make a deal work you didnt buy it cheap enough --38.248.xx.xxx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jul 19, 2026 8:15 AM
Message:

Ken, I am going to have to agree with that, however labor prices around here have gotten out of hand due to all the transplants and the scamdemic. --73.19.xxx.xx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by JS [CA]) Posted on: Jul 19, 2026 9:46 AM
Message:

I do a lot less of this than most of you but have a few in progress. I’m still seeing them but not many and out of the range of most smaller investors. They are not expensive for the areas but the ones that have enough cushion are not in the condition banks will lend. I’ve seen two recently that needed major work but were money makers. Both were priced up around 1 million and would have to be all cash. I’m not in the market until I reduce my current inventory. --162.204.xxx.xxx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jul 19, 2026 9:59 AM
Message:

There is a focus on value added opportunities. I applaud that, but I am totally amazed how people can only see these opportunities in SFH or smaller MFH.

For those who do solely look in these areas, there appears to be better news ahead for you. Hopefully you are not waiting for some has been rules to apply in the future though. The time when numbers matter disappeared trillions of dollars ago. --98.17.xx.xx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Jul 19, 2026 11:23 AM
Message:

Small fish in a big pond here, Ray.

I would have loved to buy that DG that you showed me a year or so ago.

Unfortunately I didn't have the cash on hand, or the liquidity, to buy into it.

I need to grow a lot more and then make a concerted effort to move up to bigger things.

There are many ways of doing this, as I have learned, but I still need to figure out the best path for me. --47.227.xx.xxx




Doesn't Pencil Out (by MC [PA]) Posted on: Jul 20, 2026 7:06 AM
Message:

People watch the flip shows and think it can be done in 3 weeks. Uh, pros with the appropriate tools and that is all they do. Then you watch how they "stay late". Uh. Who is paying the crazy OT for that? I know people who are "appalled" at what they want for houses that aren't perfect. That is why they have rented for over 15 years. So either pay for "perfect" (which never is) or get off your ass and put a little effort into something. A coworker would ask.if LLs are allowed to do this or that and most of the time I would day yes. You don't like it, buy your own place. --174.60.xx.xxx



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