I have a rooming house tenant who abruptly departed. ("I'm being sent somewhere else. I've left the key in the room.")

His room agreement states that he needs to give 30 days' notice to move out or his SD is forfeit.

He reached out to me a month later. It turns out he got sentenced to some jail time for a DUI. He was wondering how to get his SD back. I told him I'd mailed the accounting to his last known address, and that he wasn't getting any of it back due to lack of notice. His response was, "Wow. It was out of my control. I'll ask a lawyer what I can do! Enjoy your night."

Now he's telling me his lawyer would like to see a copy of his room agreement. I don't see any reason to engage at this point. I feel confident in my position, but I'm also aware that the legal costs, even if I win, could easily far exceed the security deposit.

Do I have a legal obligation to provide a copy of the room agreement? I just see it as providing fuel for the fire. I'm thinking the easiest way to deal with this is to just block his number. What say ye?

Who has a right to a copy of their lease agreement?

At this point, he probably does have an attorney, would you like him to use him on you as well?

I am just randomly thinking that the tenant has a right to a copy of any agreement they signed. Who they share that with is up to them.

My tenants always get a copy at signing. I tell them to take a picture of it with their phone because paperwork gets lost but phones don't.

What does your STATE LAW says about handling of the Security Deposit?

I googled "WI state law regarding security deposit return when lack of notice"

and it doesn't look great for your argument that lack of notice alone allows you to just keep the entire deposit. You have to provide a list of damages (including financial.) For instance, if his lack of notice meant you couldn't re-rent in a timely manner - amounts to the same thing but documented differently - you would document days empty as a result, etc.

I stopped taking security deposits at all for my rooming house awhile back. Instead I collect a non-refundable move-in/room prep fee. Everyone has access to a tenant portal where they have a copy of their room rental agreement or lease. This avoids me being bothered when they need a copy.

(and then I follow my attorney's advice for how to handle a given situation.)

For a rooming house, I also do a move-in fee rather than a deposit, because it's so hard to quantify damage vs wear vs pinning it on one person or another. A lot of my worst prospects are generally displeased with that approach, but it's another screening tool to help keep the bottom of the barrel to self-screen-- can they afford to pay $x in addition to the room rate as the price of entry? Not that I can explain it like that to them.

Many years ago a landlord needed to provide "their tenant" with a copy of the lease, free of charge -- once a year.

Then it changed to "as needed".

Then it changed again, landlord could charge a fee.

So every time my welfare tenant got caught breaking the terms of their "gravy train government sponsored program-handout, the tenant having no record keeping skills, requested another copy.

One tenant had their baby's daddy live with them, a violation of getting the rent paid by the State. So my tenant would request another lease, the forge terms.

The last time I was taken to court, Section 8 said the reason why they cut off funding of my tenant, was that I never provided them with a copy of their lease so the needed paperwork couldn't be complete.

Did your tenant sign for their copy of the lease at move in? If they did, they are saying they are being irresponsible. If they didn't sign for the lease, I would text thema copy of the lease specific to the 30-day notice.

If the lawyer wants it, the lawyer can ask for it, for which they would then charge the client, acting as a barrier of entry. Or they don't have a lawyer, which is the more likely option.

GKARL and Deanna, since you only charge a move-in/room prep fee (not a bad idea), how do you handle damages?

Just want to note that I also don't think Brad's fee instead of a SD is a bad idea, depending on the amount, for all his rentals (I think), I just don't like the title of it.

That said, how much is the move-in/room prep fee?

I was under the impression that rooming houses and SFHs were under different guidelines.

For me, with regular rentals, I see the SD as a way to keep the tenant in line. If they trash the place they lose the SD. Adding that I will pay them an additional $100 if everything is perfect when they leave is another push towards me not having to work on the place or take another deadbeat to court.

I know a few landlords who make bank by taking people to court. Most are property managers and they get paid by the owner to sue. So they make their money and then a percentage of the take if they collect. Doesn't seem ethical to me.

Did he get a copy of the rental agreement at the beginning of his tenancy?

I certainly think that is appropriate - as well as legally required in most places.

There may also be a law about being required to give another copy if the TENANT requests it.

He is no longer your tenant. If he told you in writing (email, text) "I'm being sent somewhere else. I've left the key in the room.", then that sounds to me like he told you he moved and returned possession (because he left the key). Also because he is not asking for his possessions. He assumes they are gone - because he left them behind when he returned possession of the room to you.

I wouldn't think that any non-tenant is entitled to get copies of paperwork.

Six,

If this property is in Wisconsin, you perhaps are in big trouble, unless Koble v Marquart has been overturned. I make sure to buy my rental agreements from Wisconsin Legal Blank as Wisconsin has some interesting interpretations of rental law. To my uneducated eyes, a clause forfeiting Security Deposit for less than proper notice would violate one of The Ten Deadly Sins, thus creating an invalid rental agreement. Under Koble v Marquart, if I understood correctly, the landlord had to return all of the RENT paid, the security deposit, and attorneys’ fees. Yikes!

"He is no longer your tenant. If he told you in writing (email, text) "I'm being sent somewhere else. I've left the key in the room.", then that sounds to me like he told you he moved and returned possession (because he left the key.)"

re: damages, I try to be present in the house at least once or twice a week. If I see something damaged, sometimes I can make an educated guess, and sometimes I have no clue.

If the damage is egregious and I know who did it, I give them notice that their room will not be renewed.

If the damage is minor, I fix it.

If there's a problem in the room itself, that isn't identified until they leave... it's part of doing business with that niche.

I try not to be shy about screening and turning people down when it's obvious they're a bad fit. (5 felonies in the last six years? No thank you.) If someone slips through screening and is trashy right off the bat, I get rid of them. The hard part is when someone behaves long enough for me to feel comfortable with them, and then starts engaging in red flag behavior.

So, for example, I had reports of one of my young guys firing a bb gun in the backyard-- shooting cans for target practice. Technically, that's illegal, firing a bb gun within the city limits. I was trying to figure out whether that was dumb enough to get rid of a $700/month income stream, when he went and shot a bb through a glass pane in an interior door. OK, you just made that super easy for me. Goodbye.

One guy left, and my 100% cotton sheets ($50) and my cotton thermal blanket ($45) were not on the bed-- just the comforter and a set of $20 polyester Walmart sheets. Or a guy takes the back of a Roku remote and I'm out $10 to replace it rather than just having half a remote. Those sorts of things are what my fee is for.

Otherwise, the fee just goes towards helping keep things running-- if I need to hire a $25 cleaning lady to freshen up the bathrooms, keeping toilet paper and dishsoap and trash bags stocked, etc. But my rooming house is deliberately small-- 5 bedrooms, 2 baths, kitchen, no common living room--- rather than some of the hundred-room-ex-hotels you have in major urban areas.

I always give a hard copy within 48 hours after lease signing. If you already gave them a copy and they've lost it, then I'd simply say "Sure, I'll be glad to send you a copy. Please remit $25 for copying fees, mailing fees, and my time to make the copy"

So here is the end of the story. This was as an Ohio property, so I asked ChatGPT if my "notice" clause was legal. Turns out that you cannot subtract anything from the security deposit except actual damages. So if he didn't give me 30 days notice and it took me 30 days to find a new tenant I could charge a month's worth of rent. But if I rented it after a week, I could only subtract one week's worth of rent from the security deposit.

So I texted him back and told him that if he preferred, he could be responsible for paying rent up to 30 days until I found a new tenant, and asked him if he would prefer that. I asked him what he wanted. He said, give me half my deposit back. I agreed and the matter is now settled.

So here is the end of the story. This was as an Ohio property, so I asked ChatGPT if my "notice" clause was legal. Turns out that you cannot subtract anything from the security deposit except actual damages. So if he didn't give me 30 days notice and it took me 30 days to find a new tenant I could charge a month's worth of rent. But if I rented it after a week, I could only subtract one week's worth of rent from the security deposit.

So I texted him back and told him that if he preferred, he could be responsible for paying rent up to 30 days until I found a new tenant, and asked him if he would prefer that. I asked him what he wanted. He said, give me half my deposit back. I agreed and the matter is now settled.

So here is the end of the story. This was as an Ohio property, so I asked ChatGPT if my "notice" clause was legal. Turns out that you cannot subtract anything from the security deposit except actual damages. So if he didn't give me 30 days notice and it took me 30 days to find a new tenant I could charge a month's worth of rent. But if I rented it after a week, I could only subtract one week's worth of rent from the security deposit.

So I texted him back and told him that if he preferred, he could be responsible for paying rent up to 30 days until I found a new tenant, and asked him if he would prefer that. I asked him what he wanted. He said, give me half my deposit back. I agreed and the matter is now settled.

Does half of the deposit cover your losses? Cleaning out his stuff, Cleaning, Vacancy, Advertising?

Robin,

THIS is one reason I have not charged a deposit in our last 1200 leases. They pay the same amount as their Rent Discount Program Fee.

I can't keep a deposit as "forfeited". I must apply it to financial damages, such as unpaid rent, late fees, and cleaning/repairs.

He HAS an attorney who will happily sue you in hopes the atty gets paid HIS fee.

Good luck!

BRAD

Robin, sounds like you made out pretty decent with less drama.