End of an era?
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End of an era? (by MikeA [TX]) Jul 13, 2025 8:41 PM
       End of an era? (by NE [PA]) Jul 13, 2025 8:59 PM
       End of an era? (by JS [CA]) Jul 13, 2025 9:30 PM
       End of an era? (by Bonanza [NC]) Jul 14, 2025 6:42 AM
       End of an era? (by Richard [MI]) Jul 14, 2025 6:42 AM
       End of an era? (by Bonanza [NC]) Jul 14, 2025 6:42 AM
       End of an era? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jul 14, 2025 7:56 AM
       End of an era? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jul 14, 2025 12:34 PM
       End of an era? (by 6x6 [TN]) Jul 14, 2025 5:22 PM
       End of an era? (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Jul 14, 2025 6:26 PM
       End of an era? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Jul 15, 2025 2:30 PM
       End of an era? (by Dodge [PA]) Jul 16, 2025 9:06 AM


End of an era? (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2025 8:41 PM
Message:

I've been trying to understand the future impacts on RE from two trends that are significantly changing in the US. Birth rates and migration.

Birth rates not only in the US but worldwide have been declining since the 1960's. While the birth rate is still higher than the death rate, those two lines will flip in the next few years unless the trends change. In 1960 the US birth rate was almost double the death rate, now it is about 15% higher. The net effect will be a reduction in the world population starting in a few years.

In the US, you also have to add in the migration to see the effects on the population. Those numbers are crazy if you look at it. In 1960 it was only 8.5% of the population, in 2023 it was around 44% of the population. It is a logarithmic increase (30 years to double at first and now down to less than 20 years to double most recently). A large part of the significant population growth in the US is attributed to migration of all sorts. That's also the most likely reason that there is a shortage of housing in recent years.

If you have been tracking, the migration into the US has been reduced significantly this last year. If you also factor that the population will also take a hit from difference between birth and death rates in the coming years it occurred to me: Are we on the verge of a population decline in the US? If so, that will be new territory for us. The population in the US has never declined before. I don't even know how to start thinking about the effects that would have on RE in the US. --209.205.xxx.xx




End of an era? (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2025 8:59 PM
Message:

I think that’s too big of a problem (if it’s even a problem) to affect most of us here. --24.152.xxx.xx




End of an era? (by JS [CA]) Posted on: Jul 13, 2025 9:30 PM
Message:

As immigration was the only way the population was increasing the policies will change. Hopefully this is through legal immigration.

The policies will change because of the economic impact being too great. Either government programs will get cut more severely or there needs to be a larger taxable base. There is no argument that the population is aging and the difference is getting more drastic.

In any case many of us will be retired from this business by the time it makes an impact. In my area there are far fewer places available than people looking. It would take an entire generation before it equalizes. But people made money in real estate back in the 60s and 70s so they probably will in 2040 also. --162.204.xxx.xxx




End of an era? (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2025 6:42 AM
Message:

I know this sounds a bit silly but have you tried using AI and see what the response is? Since you are pondering these predictive things.

--96.33.xxx.xx




End of an era? (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2025 6:42 AM
Message:

As the population ages and likely shrinks the disparity between the rich and the poor will get even more unbalanced. We've all read that when social security was implemented that there were about 50 people contributing for each person receiving money from the program. Now it is more like 2 people contributing for each one receiving money. They make up for it by just printing money which creates inflation and other problems. It's unsustainable.

An idea for a possible cure or at least a partial cure is this: we all are aware that robots and artificial intelligence are taking over much of the work force. This is wrecking the middle class and making the divide larger. It's all over the news.

I think the govt will impose a robot and AI tax to help make up the missing money as the people who are displaced and making less will not be able to pay taxes (have their money taken from them). There are analysis I read where it says a robot costs about $4 per hour verses the $15+ par hour for a human. So maybe the tax will be $10 per hour for each robot? And how will they determine tax on AI? Displace a worker-pay the same tax or more the worker would have paid?

Who knows?

One thing we can be sure of though: if there are huge numbers of broke people that vote they will vote for anything that puts money in their pockets. --97.85.x.xx




End of an era? (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2025 6:42 AM
Message:

Predict the future impacts on real estate sales and values from two trends that are significantly changing in the US. Birth rates and migration.

ChatGPT said:

Two powerful demographic trends—declining birth rates and domestic/international migration shifts—are already reshaping the U.S. real estate market and will have profound effects over the next 10–20 years. Here's a forward-looking analysis of how each will impact real estate sales and values:

1. Declining Birth Rates

í Trend Overview:

U.S. birth rates have been falling for decades, reaching historic lows.

Fewer children = fewer new households formed over time.

The Millennial and Gen Z cohorts are delaying or forgoing parenthood.

. Future Real Estate Impacts:

 Lower Demand for Large Single-Family Homes (Especially in Suburbs)

Why: Families with 3+ children drive demand for larger homes.

Forecast: Builders may pivot to smaller homes or multi-family units, especially in urban or mixed-use areas.

Values: Expect slower appreciation or stagnation in large-lot suburban areas not benefiting from other growth drivers.

 Increase in Demand for Smaller, Urban Units and Rentals

Why: More single-person and child-free households.

Forecast: Multi-family development will continue to rise in demand, especially near city centers or transit.

Values: Higher occupancy rates and rising rents, which boosts investor interest in apartment buildings.

 Senior Housing Market Boom

Why: Aging population outpaces youth growth.

Forecast: Growth in 55+ communities, assisted living, and "aging in place" modifications.

Values: Seniors may sell suburban homes to move into retirement communities, influencing prices in both sectors.

2. Migration Trends (Domestic + International)

í Trend Overview:

People are leaving high-cost states (like California, New York) for lower-cost, lower-tax states (like Texas, Florida, and the Carolinas).

Immigration policy and global factors are also shaping inflows to the U.S.

Remote work has uncoupled many jobs from geography.

. Future Real Estate Impacts:

 Regional Divergence in Home Values

Winners: Sunbelt, Mountain West, and Southeast cities (e.g., Austin, Nashville, Raleigh, Phoenix).

Why: These areas offer affordability, business-friendly environments, and warm climates.

Values: Strong appreciation; new construction boom; increased competition for land.

Losers: High-tax, high-cost metros (e.g., San Francisco, Chicago, NYC outskirts).

Values: Flat or declining in some neighborhoods, especially where population decline meets regulatory barriers.

 Changing Urban vs. Suburban vs. Rural Dynamics

Suburban Resurgence: Work-from-home has made suburbs more attractive without a daily commute.

Small/Mid-size Cities Growth: Cities like Boise, Chattanooga, and Des Moines are seeing population and real estate growth.

Values: Strong price growth in formerly overlooked cities; increased gentrification pressure.

 Immigration-Driven Demand in Select Cities

Why: Immigrants contribute to household formation, especially in large metro areas.

Forecast: Areas with strong immigrant communities (e.g., Houston, Miami, LA) will see rising demand for entry-level and multi-generational housing.

Values: Higher demand, particularly in affordable housing segments.

È Summary: Combined Impacts on U.S. Real Estate

Factor Expected Impact Markets Most Affected

Declining Birth Rates Less demand for large suburban homes; more demand for urban rentals and senior housing Suburbs in Midwest, Northeast (slow growth); Senior communities in FL, AZ

Domestic Migration Rising values in Sunbelt/Southeast; declining demand in high-tax states TX, FL, NC, AZ (winners); CA, IL, NY (challenged)

Immigration Patterns Sustains demand for lower-cost urban housing LA, Houston, Miami, NYC (multifamily value stability)

If you'd like a forecast with specific city-by-city predictions or real estate investment implications, I can break that down too. --96.33.xxx.xx




End of an era? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2025 7:56 AM
Message:

I reflect back to about 2009. The speaker back then said, follow the population and you will follow the path of appreciation. Back in 2009 they were saying that by 2020, the Southeast was going to be growing the most.

Something tells me that if I would ask what the forecast for population growth in the 2030 census, that those areas would be the areas with most appreciation too.

Where I am at, appreciation is a great thing as the population is slowly declining. Pa has the second highest number of seniors living in it, just behind Florida. Makes me wonder what will happen in another 20 years. --173.188.xx.xxx




End of an era? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2025 12:34 PM
Message:

The single biggest stats that no one seems to be watching is the spread between the 10-year Treasury note and the average 30-year mortgage. With a3% spread, there are a lot of folks out there seeking security over greed.

As a result, the cost of that mortgage is that much more expensive - almost becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy --173.188.xx.xxx




End of an era? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2025 5:22 PM
Message:

".... Are we on the verge of a population decline in the US?..."

Hopefully --73.19.xxx.xx




End of an era? (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Jul 14, 2025 6:26 PM
Message:

A change in the federal political party changes everything. In most countries governments provide maternity leave which encourages people to have children along with universal health care so starting a family does not bankrupt people. Well to some this sounds leftist the reality is how encourage people to have children. While some illegally in the country providing they are employed along with not in criminal activity there needs to be process they become citizens. Most first world countries women are in good position that pay higher salaries. The world average is 2.2 per women to maintain existing population. Finally most immigrants work in low wage jobs along with do jobs that population will not do as they are sitting home collecting welfare cheques. --216.110.xxx.xxx




End of an era? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Jul 15, 2025 2:30 PM
Message:

Fewer human beings on earth would be a big improvement. Humans have long exceeded the carrying capacity of the earth and are only still increasing in population because science keeps finding ways to overcome natural limits to populations. --76.178.xxx.xxx




End of an era? (by Dodge [PA]) Posted on: Jul 16, 2025 9:06 AM
Message:

On the macro level population would definitely influence housing demand. But lots of other factors. For example, big families used to live in one house. Now single folks or divorced people have a house and every kids gets their own room.

On the micro level it's about places people want to live. Water views and access is in demand. Even former places of last resort down by the river houses seen to be gentrifying as nicer housing. Remote work may ease the demand to be near Cities, but not affect in person manufacturing areas. It seems people are placing more importance on entertainment options too.

Just looking in my state of PA, we're losing overall population since 2021, but a lot of places have seen increased demand. Meanwhile the rust belt areas are still dying. --174.59.xxx.xxx





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