Hi everyone.

After a year of dedicating myself to learning property management with my own rentals, and setting up a scale-able system, I'm ready to take on property management for others. I have the support of my real estate broker (I got licensed as a realtor to do this) and have written over 15,000 lines of code to automate and streamline as much of the process as I can. I've learned a lot from Jeffrey's courses and material and have used it to put together my own procedures guide. I have hired virtual assistants I trust and done a lot to set myself apart from the competition. I could write pages about it....

But I have no clients, and I don't know how to get them. When I got into this, I thought that building the best systems and offering the best service would be enough. Everyone is annoyed with their property manager, right? I figured simply being competent and innovative would be enough. Yet switching is a big hurdle for most.

I wanted to ask advice from you all. I know many of you self manage, maybe some of you have property managers. How would you recommend picking up my first couple of clients? What's stopping you from using a property manager?

I'm super confident in my services, and what I've built. I know a year doesn't seem like a lot, but it's been a year of 12-14 hour days building a process I know is going to work and testing it on my own rentals. I've practically built an enterprise level software for my property management. I have no problem communicating this, and everyone I speak to expresses great interest, the problem is finding people to speak to in the first place. The ones I do get in contact with seem super interested at first, but the conversation drops off. Maybe switching PM's is too big of a hurdle?

I think if I have to beg people for business, I'm doing something wrong, so I'm not begging or badgering anyone.

Thanks and advance for any advice offered. Even though I haven't been on this forum in a while, I learned a lot from this community and going to the landlord bootcamp and conventions last year got the ball rolling for me

Agree with Deanna, nice website.

I take it you are very tech savvy.

Everything Ken said.

I found the site a bit scattered for me. It was trying to be all things to all people on the main page but with not enough info for any, and I fell off while looking at the other pages.

Either you are a PM company and marketing to landlords, or a rental company and marketing to tenants. So get more color and general pics on the front page, maybe - and then let Tenants go one route and LLs the other.

Thank you everyone for the great advice. I'll try and attend more in person meetups, and also, redesign the website. WMH I'll likely redesign the website to add separate pages for tenants and property owner's, rather than trying to advertise to both on the front page.

Daniel, buddy, welcome back!

Missed you at the last convention. I understand if you don't like Indiana but you should have come anyhow.

Send me a text on your website and I will give you my unappreciated opinion.

I can tell you what I want from a PM, which I have yet to find in this area.

Congrats on moving forward so fast with everything. Sorry that you didn't go to the company we talked about, yet not too sorry as it didn't seem to be a great fit.

Hi Daniel, good to see you are still going after big goals.

As far as feedback, here are a couple of thoughts: Who is your ideal customer? If it is mom and pop landlords, from the pictures on your opening page, I would not get the sense you were catering to me. And I don't even know what "Investor Alligned" means:)

I am doing something similar to you but on a much smaller scale. I have 2 clients so far.

I think people don't like change. They complain about their PM but they are too lazy to change.

Therefore you have to be very direct and very clear. Short and sweet. Not long winded and full of lots of explanations.

Owners want to know how much is it going to cost. so have a 1 page sheet of your fees. Keep it simple. don't nickel and dime the LL and advertise that exact phrase because LLs are, as Jeffrey would say, "thrifty".

As for finding clients. Here in NC I can download a list of all the properties in my county. If you can do something similar then with your computer expertise you can sort for all the owner's addresses that do not match with the property address and voila! you have a free list of the most likely people to target who own property but don't live in it. don't like mobile homes, then cut that off the list. Don't like commercial property, cut that off the list. Target out of state owners as they are the ones most likely to need your services.

Market to them with letters and postcards.

Looks like you can do it from here:

mcohio.org/631/GIS-Downloads

I started out as a private investor, buying property and turning them into rentals. I joined a "Apartment Association" at age 29. I thought that since I had 10 years under my thumb I knew almost everything. I was mistaken. After attending an "apartment seminar", and taking 5 classes -- my head was spinning with all of the "NEW" learned information out there.

There I met Mr. Landlord and absorbed some of his wisdom.

Six months later I took another 6 classes at another "Apartment Seminar", only not knowing round 50% of what was being taught.

SO after buying books, taking more classes and joining a news letter, did I obtain enough information to become a "Paid property manager". 3 years in the making.

So to market myself was simple. I was a "Licensed Contractor with lots of clients". I was now a Certified Property Manager.

SO when my clients were out of town, they had their tenants contact me for "emergency" repairs. IF a PROPERTY Manager doesn't have a list of tradesman to deal with all situations, they will NEVER BECOME SUCCESSFUL.

I had more work than I knew what to do with.

I took care of all emergency calls ASAP!

This has been very helpful everyone. I've already started redesigning the front-page to make it less cluttered, and perhaps communicate my messaging better. I've spent a good portion of this evening redesigning some other pages on my site that desperately needed it.

Zero,

Sent you a text, looking forward to catching up. I absolutely should have attended.

Jeffrey, that guarantee is a great idea. Today was the first day someone called my business phone looking for a property manager, and they found me online. Their biggest concern with their current PM? The property was vacant for SEVEN MONTHS. I will look into adding this clause to my management agreement. I want to make sure if I'm advertising it, it's in writing in the contract. Took note on the "Investor Aligned" being unclear as well. It's meant to be a reference to the fact that my commissions are based on net income of the properties I manage, not gross rents. This means my compensation is directly correlated with investor cashflow, and I have to do a good job of managing both income and expenses. Other property managers don't mind slapping random maintenance bills on every month because it doesn't come out of their pocket

Bonanza, not nickel and diming is my motto, and perhaps that should be better advertised on my site. I actually don't charge any fees, at all, besides my net income split. That means no leasing or re-leasing fee, no maintenance upcharge, nothing. It's silly of me not to openly state this. Your idea for downloading the GIS data is incredible, by the way. I'm downloading it now and am going to see what I can do with it. The hardest part, I think, is skip tracing to find the contact info of all the owners I want to reach.

Thanks again everyone!

Daniel - perform a critical SWOT analysis on the services that you provide. This will help you create a marketing plan.....both for your business and for the rentals that you will be trying to fill for others. From a [practical stand point if you are having difficulty getting customers for your business, what makes you think you will be doing better marketing houses?

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Your strengths - Things you do well. These are your marketing highlights when converted into features coupled with benefits

Your Weaknesses - The things you need to work on as your business grows. This can be viewed as a To Do list. I would recommend taking the time to meet with someone from SCORE (dot) ORG to discuss a marketing plan further.

Strengths and Weaknesses are items you can control. The next two pieces of SWOT are not directly under your control.

Opportunities - this can be considered your growth plan for your business

Threats -monitor the threats to your business model. These routinely become the economy, competition and additional governmental regulation.

So why am I going through the SWOT process and encouraging you to see the folks at SCORE? Because you are not the first person this week to complain about not finding the client that they want. So without a specific niche and plan to reach out to that niche, I suspect you will be struggling more ahead. The same holds true with any other business.

What truly ends up costing the business revenue with added expenses? Blaming the Threats instead of reflecting on what they can do better to improve their marketing. So you are not alone

Here's something to think about: how will you help a LL get Tenants they can't find on their own through Zillow or whatever? (Per Ray: what's the marketing plan? Is it customized a bit per house or what?) You don't want to reveal it on your website, but you should tout that you HAVE or will develop such a plan - backed up by your Mr. LL guarantee :)

I like having all of your services blurbed on first page, then the target can go to a more customized page to see what you can do for them (Landlords, Tenants, maybe even a partner page for maintenance guys to inquire?)

For LLs do you offer photo and listing services? For Tenants do you offer tenant testimonials on the specific unit or area? (I'm making these up as I go along - things I'd want to see maybe.)

DH and I have talked about hiring a property manager as we gain gray hairs and wrinkles. Here's why we haven't:

--financial interests are not always aligned. If a PM gets paid one month's worth of rent for placing a tenant, it's in the PM's best interest to churn through tenants.

--I worry that I'll get billed for top-quality repairs but get substandard ones.

--I worry that repairs won't get done in a timely fashion. What kind of a team do you have?

--How do I know the PM is acting with integrity? Maybe he tells me it has taken 3 months to place a tenant when it took 1 and he has pocketed the rent.

Lest you feel like I'm exaggerating, I know of a local PM who billed owners for repairs that were never done, rented to anyone with a pulse, let the properties slide into a state of extreme disrepair, and more. Did I mention that they were president of a local REIA for many years?

"I guess at this point I don't trust anyone to do better (or even just as good) as me"

I think a lot of us feel that way.

I would take down the Meta/facebook post from May 12. It's a dated meme that's more for tech bros than for your target market of mom-and-pop landlords whom you want to attract.

Robin has provided you a list of potential objections that you can expect.

What is your current lead source and have you started using a CRM system. If you are not sure what a CRM is, you really shouldn't scale yet. Get that inter-structure in place, EFFECTIVELY market and clients will come. If you are planning on just tossing out that big old fish net, you will be bankrupt. Targeted marketing works.

Ray, I have gone ahead and reached out to SCORE, that looks perfect for me at this stage in my business, thank you for the rec.

Robin, 6x6, WMH, and Ray, I'm going to answer all your other questions and objections below:

1. Since I'm also a licensed realtor I can post listings directly to the MLS where they get syndicated everywhere (rather than using Tenantcloud's syndication, which is far less effective). I've integrated with Zillow's systems directly. As soon as they have a lead for me, I get it programmatically and send the prospect an automated text with information on how to proceed and fill out an application. This has been very effective for me. I get prequalified leads with 0 interaction or work, and can even get applications and tours scheduled without speaking to anyone.

Ray regarding CRM's, I use a phone software called openphone which also has contact management, so I essentially use that as my CRM. I can programmatically create contacts when prescreen forms or zillow leads come in, and filter based on leads / current tenants / etc. I also have my own Postgres database which mirrors the contacts in OpenPhone, should I decide to build something more robust on my own.

I don't want to use a dedicated CRM not because of cost, but because it doesn't add value to my current setup imo

2. "--financial interests are not always aligned. If a PM gets paid one month's worth of rent for placing a tenant, it's in the PM's best interest to churn through tenants."

My commission is based on net income of a property, and I don't charge for tenant placement or upcharge on maintenance. My only fee is a percentage of net income, meaning I make more or less money based on when YOU make more or less. Property expenses reduce my commission.

2. "--I worry that I'll get billed for top-quality repairs but get substandard ones."

This is a concern I've heard a couple of times, and honestly, it's hard to mitigate this concern with words. I could say paragraphs about how the contractor I work with is a long-term business partner of my broker and the quality of their work, but at the end of the day words are not actionable. I will need to think about how, or if, I can even alleviate this concern fully upfront. If people don't have just for property managers (justified), will they trust anything I say to begin with?

3. "--I worry that repairs won't get done in a timely fashion. What kind of a team do you have?"

We work with a local maintenance company which works exclusively on a referral basis that has a team of 15 employees, their own dump trucks, and millions of dollars in equipment for every possible need. We have a direct line to the owner's cell and get priority treatment

4. "--How do I know the PM is acting with integrity? Maybe he tells me it has taken 3 months to place a tenant when it took 1 and he has pocketed the rent."

Owner's will have live access to the PM software I use, meaning they can see everything that happens at their properties in real time. I do not really have a way to hide transactions, even if I wanted to. I guess in my particular case, this wouldn't be worth it to me anyway. Building this property management company is my ticket out of a remote, six figure career I already have, which most would probably be happy with. What's the point in sacrificing both for a couple thousand here or there. I am trying to build a massive, large scale company and I won't accomplish that by screwing people over

5. "I guess at this point I don't trust anyone to do better (or even just as good) as me"

I feel the same way, which is how I ended up in my current situation funny enough. Maybe this is the perspective I forgot about, but needed. When I bought my first property, there was a manager in place who I could see was doing horribly. I thought why the hell would I pay you 10% when clearly the current owners and tenants are unhappy? No, I'm doing it myself. And I did. And at first I really struggled and gained a few gray hairs in my early twenties. Looking back, I would NEVER have self managed without the intention of scaling it like I am now. It's just not worth it, in my opinion. Perhaps this is what I should be communicating

Daniel, I've been thinking about this and I'm not getting where YOU will be making enough money to take on the hassles? You could work all year for a client and one roof or major issue and you get NO money at all, because there is no net income after expenses that year? The owner at least gets the tax deduction. In fact many are in rental biz just for deductions (never understood that, but whatever.)

I think gross rents are the only way to charge, because you have absolutely no control over expenses. And expenses + a fee as well.

What if a LL gets you to do all the work and hassle of managing but then decides to renovate a bathroom - netting zero income?

Couple of things WMH and Ken:

As the manager, I absolutely control the property expenses. Intelligent maintenance (preventative and cost effective), proper advertising, listing, and tenant acquisitions. Proper tenant screening to minimize damages and evictions, etc. My performance determines expenses as well. If I can't make the property make money, I'm to blame, and I deserve to take a hit, same as my own properties

Additionally, it's on a monthly basis, and capital improvements or major expected repairs don't count against me. Something like a roof repair doesn't factor into my formula, or other capital improvements. If they want to reno the place, that's great (and I will encourage it) but it's not going to count as an expense by my formula. If there is a month where the property takes a big hit, it'll effect my earnings that month, but not for the whole year. For example a furnace replacement, etc. I intend to go through it thick and thin with the owner.

"My formula" is clearly defined in my management agreement, and it's essentially all regular operating expenses for a property, but not cap improvements or out of the blue stuff

Lastly, I do charge a minimum for management, which is currently at $50/month per unit. So if my compensation for a month dips below that number, I receive that minimum compensation.

I worked very hard with a lawyer to build an agreement I feel is fair to both. My goal (long term) is to charge a higher percent of NET income than other property managers charge for gross income, in a way where the total compensation ends up being similar, but more mutually beneficial.

In the very worst case, I will have to adjust my % on net income up. My math has shown that 15% net income commission is roughly similar to 8-10% gross. If I end up getting underpaid, I can charge more, and I believe owners will see the value in this model. The most important thing, it's a business model that's more fair for the owner, and rewards me for good performance and punishes me for being a bad manager. That's how it should be, in my opinion

Couple of things WMH and Ken:

As the manager, I absolutely control the property expenses. Intelligent maintenance (preventative and cost effective), proper advertising, listing, and tenant acquisitions. Proper tenant screening to minimize damages and evictions, etc. My performance determines expenses as well. If I can't make the property make money, I'm to blame, and I deserve to take a hit, same as my own properties

Additionally, it's on a monthly basis, and capital improvements or major expected repairs don't count against me. Something like a roof repair doesn't factor into my formula, or other capital improvements. If they want to reno the place, that's great (and I will encourage it) but it's not going to count as an expense by my formula. If there is a month where the property takes a big hit, it'll effect my earnings that month, but not for the whole year. For example a furnace replacement, etc. I intend to go through it thick and thin with the owner.

"My formula" is clearly defined in my management agreement, and it's essentially all regular operating expenses for a property, but not cap improvements or out of the blue stuff

Lastly, I do charge a minimum for management, which is currently at $50/month per unit. So if my compensation for a month dips below that number, I receive that minimum compensation.

I worked very hard with a lawyer to build an agreement I feel is fair to both. My goal (long term) is to charge a higher percent of NET income than other property managers charge for gross income, in a way where the total compensation ends up being similar, but more mutually beneficial.

In the very worst case, I will have to adjust my % on net income up. My math has shown that 15% net income commission is roughly similar to 8-10% gross. If I end up getting underpaid, I can charge more, and I believe owners will see the value in this model. The most important thing, it's a business model that's more fair for the owner, and rewards me for good performance and punishes me for being a bad manager. That's how it should be, in my opinion

I think that getting the first couple clients is going to be your biggest hurdle. After that you will be able to iron out any wrinkles that might arise.

Make sure they know you have properties of your own. Sometimes that helps ease the trust issues with new PMs.

Sometimes that backfires as well. One that I know puts his places at the top of the list when it should be fist come first served, in my opinion.

Daniel please keep us updated on your progress. I wish you were local for us, who would like to continue in the business, but are taking a break to upgrade a few units.

We've had many years of managing our properties; some of our "team" are getting older and retiring. Luckily our favorites are still doing a great job while we locate more service people.