It is ohhh so easy to simply say that we collectively are landlords and call it quits. We are not just landlords. I can give lots of labels to the various task that we do but collectively we are real estate and life problem solvers.

Why do we complain about the returns on the places we purchase recently? Well what problem are you solving at this point. The reason why the 1% rule worked in the past, there was a set amount of real estate available and certain amount of capital chasing it. Over the last decade, the amount of money chasing those "ahhhhh deals" has increased so instead of getting that 1% with a net of closer to 2/3 of 1% monthly (an 8 Cap), we are so much closer to that 4% Cap.

Some folks believe the answer is to wait for the market to correct itself. Yes that is a solution. With the 4% Cap Rate, you can wait years on end for something to drop into your lap. It will eventually happen. If you have been waiting for the market to correct in my slow growth part of the nation, you have lost more than doubling of your appreciation status waiting on that 20% drop in prices.

I would suggest to just about everyone that perhaps collectively landlords have a few other issues. We have the reputation as money grabbing slumlords who do not care. We tend to focus only on cash flow and not systems or processes and we really don't do a good job setting goals or even objectives.

If one's goal is simply made $4,000 a month, then you have to reverse engineer to say how many free and clear homes do I need filled to make that $5,000 $10,000 or even $25,000 goal. If that magic number is say 10, 25 or 50, you then need to figure what problem you are going to solve to get that number. For most landlords, the process is too much. Why because they have money and solve the seller problem who wants a person who has money. This works great until too much money gets pumped into the system. When that happens many landlords didn't ask what problem they were solving and become professional lawn mower. Now don't me wrong, I am not happy about writing that $300-400 monthly check for landscaping. It does cut into cash flow if you are strictly just a landlord. If you want to mow lawns, it is an admiral profession and in the 15 days that it doesn't rain here you only have to do $6,000 in sales to clear that $4,000. Is that practical?

So then others might become handyman. This might work out, especially if you team up with another handy landlord to help you control the ebb and flow of the business and marketing cycles. If however you don't have a marketing plan or system in place, you will be too caught up complaining that no one is qualified in your location.

I might not be an expert on anyone specific area, but I do know people are dying in towns and cities near me. I think that might also be true near you. I think people are getting foreclosed on near you, I think people are getting divorced nearby to. If you feel confutable jumping and helping solve the real estate aspects of these issues, there is money to be made - if you have installed marketing plans and/or systems in place.

Many are waiting I guess for someone to knock on their door and ask them to buy real estate. It really isn't going to happen. Likewise, some folks think platforms like Zillow and only Zillow will solve the marketing issues on finding great residents. How is that working out especially if you are not answering your phone? (Honestly - why put your phone number in an add if you don't want them calling?) A marketing plan isn't enough, you probably should have one to fill units and another to buy and or sell units. You need to advertise what problems you solve. For some, I am not all that sure that this is occurring because Frustration is settling in instead. I am with you, I have had those bad days.

So if you flipper, note buyer, a financer, seller, landlord, handyman/woman, or buy and hold investor, you have to be a marketer of the issues that you resolve.

Looking back over my career, I can say I was less lazy when I started out as compared to today. Once upon a time I was figuring out the differences in profits between Promissory Note, Equity Sharing Note and Purchase Money Note. I once had to do business creatively to make that upset down house work so I could purchase it. Each tool can make a transaction work, sometimes that tool doesn't fit the market, fit that class house or timing of the seller. After you get money built up, I know I got lazier about creativity.

So why I am doing this post? There was a rather brave 17 year old we met last week, his only question was how do I start out. Where it is awesome to know the construction part of the puzzle, if you are a real estate investor - then you should be investing. Yes you can on a $100 service call, but I submit that many times that $100 saved is robbing you from the looking at the much bigger issue - if you want to make a simple $250,000 this year what do I need to do. I submit doing those seven trouble calls every day isn't the path to freedom. it is a path to a job....one that will still require to market your problem solving skills.

When it comes to marketing I enjoy talking problem solving over with other folks in business, we share the common language and common concerns. Sure hope this gives at least one person a 10,000 foot view of our jobs.

Goal: as Brad 2000 says---FREEDOM

Just got back from 32 days in Europe--1/2 in Italy --1/2 in Greece. Looking a t property there.......

Of course you are right. Even though I know what you are saying is true, I find it difficult to break the habit of DIY.

I wonder how things would be if I had never gotten into the habit of DIYing as much as I possibly could. The reason I did was to try and gain ground coming from where I did. Those environments teach you that you need to try and fix things on your own because you can't afford to pay someone. You also tend to work in blue collar jobs and don't know anything different to do. I also believe that it is good to learn those skills, at least the basics, so that you can compare and judge if you might be getting ripped off or a bad job. The biggest problem seems to be letting go of that thought process as you see things as being too expensive to hire out, afraid to trust anyone else to do it, even if you aren't perfect at it, and have become accustomed to working and learning with your hands.

Perhaps a question should be, to someone who has made the shift; at what point, in the process of time, did the realization take place that made you shift gears, and want to shift gears? What did that moment look like if you could draw a cartoon of it on paper? Was it a light that started out dim and got brighter over time, or was it an instant full light?

I think I am a bit different than many here. Maybe it is just a scale thing. I always thought of my rentals as "gravy" -- as extras. I work a normal job. It pays decent now (didn't always, but does now) and I save and invest for retirement. But, for the rentals, they have always been bonus money to me.

I bought them with very little down. They paid for themselves. And now I've finally sold two of them. (I had 13 doors across 5 properties and have sold the two 4-plexes over the past couple of years.)

My total cash-out-of-pocket for each 4-plex was around $20k for the original downpayment. Sold for $125k.

So now I am down to 5 doors with 4 properties (one duplex and three SFHs). But I never intended to LIVE off of these. I've always seen them as extra money on top of my retirement.

Same with Social Security. I don't really count it in my totals, but expect it will still be there when I retire. As bonus money. :)

Just feels safer that way.

6x6 you nailed the dilemma I am in.

I used to build houses for a living. Have always worked on my own stuff and helped others as well. Blue collar work, dabbled in management.

Got into rentals because the mother-in-law was renting and getting ripped off. Bought the first place and worked hard to make it habitable. Went overboard with it but learned some things.

In 2012 the W2 came to an end. I hated it anyhow. Paid good but they always seemed to hire idiots in management. They asked me to move to another area so I could continue working. I declined. It was scary at first, but we are so glad that we followed thru.

I have hired people thru the years, good ones as well as bad ones. The good ones learn and go out on their own. They grow beyond what I can afford to pay.

One thing that I brought away from the convention is finding another landlord or property manager to see about hiring a handyman between the two of us. Better yet, find a third person to ease the cash out and keep the guy happy during lean times.

I actually approached one other investor this week and we have started discussions about how to formulate a worthwhile plan like this. It is tough for me as the majority of the people in my area are either slumlords or big enough to have full time workers that I don't want to steal.

Two days ago I found a main drain problem. Got the drain guy over there and we formulated a plan. He will install a clean-out and run his machine thru the lines in the hopes that it is just roots or some such and not a collapse. I have many shovels and a mini-excavator. I could have gone in there and started the project. Instead I chose to work on other tasks. Unfortunately those tasks include more DIY stuff, but I am in process.

Having the skills is great. Giving up on all the small DIY projects has proven to be a chore.

One of my main goals is to get a new system in place where I either have a guy on call or I go in with others to hire someone.

Listen no one should be SHAMED by DIY! You've got skills, it is perfectly okay to use them! Especially when someone is just starting out - it's part of the process.

Know what you are doing is really important when you are hiring others too - for instance, we hired drywall guys. The boss asked us to buy 12 foot drywall. We did, assuming he was going horizontal with it. His guys went vertical and cut off 4 foot from each piece as waste. I would not have known what happened, DH did.

We've had plumbing jobs fail inspection. Sometimes instead of waiting days for the plumber guys to come back, DH fixes it.

I don't hire out bookkeeping or tax preparation. There's absolutely no reason to do so as I have the knowledge and skills to do the work. I DON'T have the time and skills to handle anything but the simplest of maintenance related tasks, so I hire it out. If I had the time and skills, or a partner who did, I might approach it differently. Because I don't, this affects not only the decision to hire the work out but what sorts of properties I buy. I just think that folks need to choose whatever works for them until it doesn't. When it no longer works, be prepared to evolve to a different approach. There's absolutely no shame in DIY if that's what you need to do based on your circumstances.

I think one's approach to real estate investing is similarly unique to one's circumstances. My wheelhouse is MFH buy and hold. I don't flip, I don't buy notes, I don't lend money and etc. There's nothing wrong with any of these, but they're outside of my personal wheelhouse.

In absolutely no way is this a slam against DIY. There is a time and place for everything. I absolutely believe it is wise to know the task that you hire out.

If you aim is to only have a none scalable job, the trades are for you as an independent operator. You can make a healthy six figure wage with that career. And when you take off work, so does your income. If you have multiple task occurring at the same time and you insist that you do it all at once - no you don't.

I think plenty is on the right track. What is going on today is going to be different next week, which will be different in a month. If my task is marketing today, how I do it and how effective it is will change. One quarter, targeted direct mail for probate will be hot, the next quarter the penny saver will be getting leads. You need to keep that sales funnel with a steady stream of leads.

I will add that, in the beginning, we did SO MUCH ourselves. Like everything that we could possibly do. We only hired out when it was beyond our skills -- certain plumbing and electrical things (although we had no problem swapping out electric water heaters ourselves). In the start, we did it all.

I didn't mind most of it, but hated mowing the lawns and raking the leaves in the fall. That was our first goal -- I just wanted to make enough money that we could hire out mowing the lawns and raking the leaves. When we reached that level, THEN I felt like we had made it. :)

We slowly did less and less ourselves over the years. But it did take years. And, even a year ago, I was still draining a water heater to replace a heating element now and then. But that was mainly because it was 10pm on a Friday and I didn't want to pay for an emergency plumber or wait until Monday for them to have hot water again. If it was a Tuesday, we would have just hired it out.

In any case, we do very little DIY now. I make enough money at my day job that it just isn't worth my time to spend an hour or two doing something that I could easily hire out. If I work that hour or two, I'll come out well ahead in most cases now.

For me it is how to know when you have gotten to that point.

I was hiring out the mowing and the people have always flaked out. Did I mention the riding mower deck that was held up with a bungee cord and a screwdriver? How about the UPS driver that mowed on the side but wanted it to be more profitable so he went as fast as he could and bashed into buildings? Brand new siding crushed and broken.

Hiring the pros is not cost effective at all. The rates they charge eat up the profit on multiple places, especially when they have to hit them once a week.

But I raise rents, get new places and make more money. Maybe it isn't mowing season so I get used to the extra cashflow.

Now when I say I need mowers I am still watching the monthly CF drop.

Not just mowing.

Couldn't figure out why I had hot water problems in an apartment. Checked the water heater and all the pipes. Decided to hire a plumber, they swapped out the shower valve. Still only a five minute shower at best. Then I got the bill for over $600. Two guys came in reeking of pot, installed the valve, left the handle loose, didn't solve the problem AND I get to pay nearly a month's rent for it.

I have changed them out myself. Not fun but not a tough task.

Interviewed a potential handyman. Asked what the charge would be to swap out a water heater element, during normal business hours, I supply materials. Around a hundred bucks. Wow, I can do it in half an hour, maybe 45 minutes if it drains slow.

I am not afraid to spend money, but where is that magic line? Seems that I will have to up the CF considerably so I can afford to hire more of the mundane things out. All the while not putting more in my pocket.

Don't get me wrong, we are making money. Not big city money, but we are comfortable.

Goal: 1M/yr in rental income. Once I hit it, probably say 1.5M/yr then....

Ken, one of the things Jeffrey talked about at the con was hiring a part timer and getting another landlord to hire him as well.

I really think this will work for me, as long as we don't have confusion regarding what I expect vs what the other guy expects.