We have some tenants who are part of the Section 8 program. In our approved lease agreement, we include a clause that allows us to lease the kitchen appliances to the tenant for a specific monthly amount. This arrangement is also clearly stated in our landlord packet, where we note that appliances are provided as part of the rental.

The reason we structure it this way is because the rent allowed under Section 8 is typically below market rate. By leasing the appliances separately, we’re able to offset some of that gap.

It has been 20 plus years but from what I recall charging them in any other manner was strictly forbidden. That was then, maybe things got easier working with the government. I used to offer RTO appliances but was not permitted.

I don't have experience with that, personally.

Having worked for S8 in the past, you definitely cannot charge for "extras" or an amount other than what is in the HAP.

So, in my area, I've worked directly with my Sec-8 office (we actually do their IT too at my real job) -- and they have no problem with a secondary agreement like this because it is a normal thing that they would need anyhow.

For example, the unit is rented without appliance in the HAP-agreed contract. They would then need to go rent them from some rental place to get them. So it is a normal need outside of the housing agreement. So they are fine with me renting the appliances to them separately and do NOT see it as getting around any housing limits (as long as they are reasonable fees for what appliances would go for -- and mine are always less than the rental places).

Also, in one of our 4-plexes, we had a small storage closet in the shared hallway. We had a Sec-8 person in a unit and rented the storage closet out to them for an extra $50/month. Because the unit was in the SHARED space and not in their unit, they also said it was fine because, again, it was something they would rent from someone else if they needed more storage and we were offering it at the same market rate or cheaper.

You CAN charge for "extras" as long as they are actually extra things and not clearly a scam to get more rent from them.

Your tenant pays an amount of rent set by your local Housing Authority and found in your HAP contract. "Side deals" between landlord and tenant inflating that amount are prohibited.

Mapleaf18: That is not the case in my area -- and I have confirmed that with the two different Housing Commissions that handle Sec8/HAP agreements for our county.

You are correct that the rent reasonableness is calculated on what is included or not. So, for the HAP, the stove and fridge ARE included in our agreement and the washer/dryer is not, for example. And then we lease the washer/dryer to them separately. That lease is not needed to be written into the HAP. The HAP states that it does NOT include washer/dryer and we have a separately agreement to rent it to them.

Same with the closet. It is not part of the rental agreement at all -- so nothing to be mentioned in the HAP at all.

The HAP is accurate as far as what is and is not included for the rent reasonableness calculation.

Scott: "Side deals" inflating that amount are not allowed. Side agreements for other things that are not part of the rental agreement absolutely are not prohibited.

In this case, I realize it is more complex than I originally thought though. He's talking about appliances being included that he didn't intend to be or something. That's not the same thing as to what I've been referring to.

John, your local Housing Authority might be willing to ignore federal regulations. That's their prerogative. As I've said before, local Housing Authorities do whatever they want. But Eric cannot assume that his HA will do the same as yours.

Following is a quote I lifted from HUD Office of the Inspector General:

Have you read the HAP agreement lately? Because this isn't some local interpretation. It is allowed as long as it is not part of what they would consider rent.

The whole point of the system is for when the tenant's voucher (and their payment) is not enough to pay the rent with the amentities provided. In THAT case, you cannot do some side deal to have the tenant pay. That's the whole point.

However, it does NOT apply to additional things that are not part of their very-specific system for the rent reasonable calculation.

So, if I want to rent a storage unit that is unrelated to the apartment to someone, I can. Because it isn't working around any regulation. If they want to rent a washer/dryer from me that is NOT included in the unit and therefore NOT part of the HAP calculation, then I can -- because it is not working around the numbers by using a side deal.

Those things have to be completely optional to the tenant -- and they can end them at any time if they want to. It is not part of the agreement and does not violate any federal regulations.

It is NOT "avoiding Federal rent limits by making side deals."

Every Housing Authority can be different.

Some treat LL as a respected partner in the deal, others treat us like we are Satan.

So, before buying a rental in a new area, stop by the Housing Authority and ask a few question/gauge how you treated.

Eric,

Sec8 was giving us only $12/mo for each appliance. Hardly worth the effort to maintain them.

A Sec8 renter is allowed to go to Rent A Center and rent appliances, outside the lease.

So, our appliances are on a separate document.

BUT...

Start here - Sec8 renters do NOT have available cash,