I screwed up,...it was a very busy time and I neglected putting a sec dept in the bank,. many months went by since I remembered it,..so what I did is sent the $ back to her in full w/interest.

This is not the nicest tenant and complains a lot , has annoyed a number of others in the building,. (wrote about her before)

She has told another tenant that she is worried this scd return means that we are going to make her leave.

So she hasn't cashed the check and now its stale, I think she might want to use that screw up as a tool later.

Wondering if I should send it again,..Maybe registered mail,..but is there a way I can prove its a return of her sec deposit?

billw,

Not sure how your mistake can be used against you later. You said you gave her interest.

What does YOUR state law require? Indiana requires "SENT", no proof of receiving required, to LAST KNOWN ADDRESS.

What address did you use?

My lease is clear: requires the MOVE OUT form form the lease, with forwarding address.

plenty's PROOF OF MAILING is the easiest.

Certified with return receipt post card is super good.

Me? Send her a text designed to elicit a response proving she received it

"Mary, I see you have not cashed you Deposit Refund check so I will cancel it."

(Not really gonna cancel it, I just want to get her urgent or even angry response to prove she got it. I also do this with court Summons).

If she got it and never cashed it - that's up to her. We keep a $900 check on the books from years ago that a contractor never cashed.

Just a thought: A GenZ might not know what to do with a check.

Thank you guys, I will send her a certified letter but wondered if that's really proof,..she Could claim it was stuffed with something else.

She does not have text ability.(Cell phone) She is an older women and a section 8 tenant,....Her address is at the unit,she is still there. I did send her a letter saying it by now its stale so to be sure I am cancelling it,..(no response)

Whoa...hold on....it sounds like she is a CURRENT tenant. If I'm reading that right,

WHY on EARTH would you send her the security deposit NOW?!

Security deposits are to cover damages AFTER the tenant has vacated.

Why not just put it into the bank as soon as you realized it? If you don't tell anybody, nobody would know. You could even go back and calculate how much interest it would have earned during that time, and added, if you wanted to.

If I am reading your post right, and this is what you did.....

Oh, my...geez... - Please go to convention / bootcamp

Bill, IMO you are wise to be concerned that you failed to correctly follow the super strict MA SD law. In order to avoid having to pay treble damages I suggest that you put a stop payment on it & resend it in the following manner.

Write a letter detailing when & how the first check was sent to her. Make sure that you include who the payee was, the check #, the amount of the check, an accounting of the amount SD & interest amount, where it was mailed to, how it was mailed, when & why you put a stop payment on the check, that you're replacing the original check #123 with a new check # 124 in the amount of(SD + interest) as well as any other pertinent information. Now take this letter & your replacement check & deliver it with any of the following options.

1. Hand deliver it & have her sign a receipt for it.

2. Have a constable or sheriff deliver it.

3. Send it certified mail RRR restricted delivery & also send a letter first class mail referencing the certified mail number & that the certified mail contains a refund of her SD

Another option is to do nothing & take your chances that she won't make this an issue.

I'm with DJ. You NEVER send a CURRENT tenant the security deposit... unless you like having zero hedge against their bad behavior in the future. Are you going to try to get them to send you a new deposit?

This is weirder than weird... and yeah, MA laws are very anti-landlord. I'm beyond confused with why this all happened, but... it happened.

What I would've done is deposited it into my LL Security Deposit Trust account, along with the added interest that would have been credited to it for the time it wasn't deposited. That amount would probably be a pittance. And then said nothing. Sleeping dogs need to be left alone.

How can you prove the envelop wasn't stuffed with something else? You can't. Not definitively. Even if you shot video of you putting the check in the envelope and putting it into a mail box, the tenant could always claim you doctored the video or came back later and fished it out with an elaborate mail box fishing rod.

Proof isn't the point in court. EVIDENCE is the point.

What's the difference?

Evidence is what gives a reasonable picture of what happened. Whenever I mail a security deposit to the tenant, I do the following:

Take a clear picture of the outside of the envelope with the check and the deposit statement sitting next to it on my desk. I also make sure there is postage on the envelope in the picture.

Then I stuff it in the envelope with the check edge hanging out. I take a picture of that too.

Then I seal the envelope and put it in the mail box. I take a picture of the sealed envelope in my mail box.

That's it.

So now the judge would have to look at that and make a decision: What is the MOST REASONABLE interpretation of what happened? Did I go through all that just to take the envelope out and not mail it? Or is it more likely that I did mail what I took clear pictures of?

Evidence isn't proof: that's why in a court of law there are phrases like "preponderance of evidence"... not "100% iron clad proof." What you need is evidence. Document, document, document!

It's still up to the judge to interpret the evidence given, but there's only so much you can do. If your judges in MA are so bad that they'd throw out multiple pictures of a mailing statement like I have above, then you're investing in a rigged system and the only sane solution is you need to sell all of your rentals and invest somewhere else, because the risk of investing in MA is too much.

NE, the damage is already done as he has sent the check to her.

STEVE:

I know you are a very experienced landlord.

I am curious if that advice is for a current resident or one who has already vacated.

Even in MA, I still don't understand returning it while the resident is still there.

Could you clarify?

Maybe I can clarify, it was a busy time and I forgot to put it in a separate interest bearing account,..Months went by. This turned out to be a nasty old lady that I'm pretty sure she will get a free lawyer here in Ma when we want her to leave.She like every one in this town over the years have become a section 8 after the big only employment factory left.

She is friends with another tenant that we are trying to get rid of,..that has a free lawyer fighting eviction.

DJ, unlike when I bought my first triple decker some 52 years ago the LL / tenant laws in the "Peoples Republic of Massachusetts" have become almost as bad for LLs as those in CA.

In MA if a LL fails to properly follow our strict SD laws & it gets before a judge 99 times out of 100 the tenant is automatically awarded treble damages as well as court cost, interest & legal fees. In most cases treble damages don't come into play if there isn't a SD prior to either the LL or the tenant filing a court action.

Here are couple of case law regarding SDs

Castenholz v. Caira, 21 Mass. App. Ct. 758 (1986)

If a landlord does not place a security deposit in an escrow account within 30 days of receipt, and fails to return the security deposit to the tenant, and the tenant must go to court to get the money back, the landlord must pay triple damages, interest, costs, and attorney’s fees.

Dolores v. Gustafson, 2009 Mass. App. Div. 267 (2009)

Even if the landlord returns the security deposit within 30 days of the end of the tenancy, triple damages may apply if the landlord has not followed any of the other provisions of the law that trigger triple damages, such as keeping the money in a separate account or providing a proper itemized list of damage and repairs made. (Request a copy of this case)

Here are some of the requirement that a MA LL must follow if they collect a SD.

Security deposits

All security deposits must be deposited in a Massachusetts bank, in an account that collects interest, and within the first month of the tenancy. The landlord must provide the tenant with the name and address of the bank holding the security deposit, plus the account number. Each year, the landlord must either pay the tenant the interest on the security deposit or let the tenant deduct that amount from a rent payment.

The landlord should give the tenant a “statement of condition” within 10 days of the beginning of the tenancy or upon receipt of the security deposit (whichever is later), which describes the condition of the apartment and any damage that exists at that time. The tenant has 15 days to add to the “statement of condition” or make changes to it. Both parties should keep copies of the final “statement of condition.”

When the tenancy ends, the landlord must return the security deposit, plus interest, within 30 days. However, the landlord may keep any unpaid rent or the amount of money needed to repair damage done to the apartment (beyond normal wear and tear). If the lease provides for it, the landlord may also deduct the tenant’s share of any increase in the landlord’s property taxes.

If the landlord decides to keep all or a part of the security deposit for damages, then the landlord must give the tenant a written description of the damage and an estimate of the repair cost within 30 days of the tenant moving out.

Here's a link to some of what we have to deal with for our residential rentals.

None of that sounds onerous??

NC require Landlords to keep SDs in a Landlord Trust Account in an NC bank (really just an account at the bank labeled "Landlord Trust Account.") Interest is for the benefit of the LL if so stated in the lease. We have a few that just interest-free. Deposits for multiple properties can be combined in an escrow account. (Our lease specifies the account number where their deposit will be kept.) We used to do one account per property but that got unwieldy so the escrow per LLC works but whatever.

We must return or document why we are keeping the deposit within 30 days, or send an interim accounting if it's going to take longer to document damages - then final accounting in 60 days.

Subject to punitive damages if you just royally screw up, which I don't understand how you did - did you spend the deposit? Not keep it on hand? If a lawyer asked for your deposit documentation, would it not show as available for her entire tenancy so far? Confused.

No read the original,..very busy here,..several people moving in and out, just forgot to put it in a separate account until months went by,

So sent her back the sec deposit plus interest and she won't cash it,..its now stale and she can'' cash that one so going to send another certified,.With her have to sign for it.

plenty [MO], unfortunately considering how "Blue" MA is I doubt that very much if anything will trickle down. In the 52+ years that I've owned rental property in MA the laws have only become more & more in favor of the tenants. IMO this is due to several factors such as;

1. slum lords causing the state legislature to over react.

2. there are more tenants in the voter pool vote than LLs.

3. the unwillingness of most LLs to actually get involved with lobbying both at the local & state levels to make more reasonable changes.