Yesterday, I was out looking for my next fixer-upper to buy. On Zillow, I located one that was in the same neighborhood where I have several other similar size (2/1) rental houses. In this hood, I can usually buy houses for around $25K which usually need an additional $25K for a full top to bottom rehab. 2/1 houses here rent for about $750/month.

The house I am referring to and made an offer on, is on Zillow at this address: 208 South 8th Street, Gadsden, AL 35903. House is currently listed at $65,000 and it appears from the listing photos that someone else has attempted to rehab this house. I called the seller's listing agent and she met me the house yesterday.

The listing agent told me this house had sold one year ago to a young couple who had plans to rehab the house and then make an attempt to "flip it" for a profit. This couple did manage to have new windows installed and they had also started some drywall repairs but obviously did not finish or anything else for that matter. So for whatever reason, the couple decided to not finish the rehab and just sell the house in "as in" condition.

I walked through the house and determined this house needed approximately $35,000 in repairs, (electrical, plumbing, drywall, painting, flooring, HVAC, etc. etc.).

So, I deducted $35,000 from the $65K listing price to arrive at my offer of $30,000. Two hours later the agent calls me and says your offer was refused and there will be no counter offer either.

So, I guess my question is here: when a seller does not make a counter-offer, does that mean my offer insulted them ? I thought my offer was reasonable considering the amount of rehab this house needed.

NE,

The house they paid $50K for and now with some new El Cheapo windows in it, they are trying to flip it $65K ?

Sounds like the King of negotiations got shot down.

Here's how I would have done an offer on the property. I would have made a higher offer, subject to an official inspection by a licensed inspector and examining the books and records.

The I would have found the windows were not installed properly and had no permits. I would have a window contractor, plumber, electrician and general contractor, besides the home inspectors report.

They I would provide a copy to the listing agent. Now when they try to sell this property to anyone else, they will have to disclose the inspection report.

Ken,

Most of the houses I buy are FSBO's. I get to negotiate directly with the owner of the house without an idiot RE agent mucking things up between us.

NE,

Based on my experience, one reason people use agents is because they don't want to discuss money with the Buyer. Since

I have already met the Agent here, contacting the seller directly would only backfire on me.

Based on what you've told us, I will almost guarantee you that they are upside down on it. Your offer won't come anywhere close to what the payoff is for the financing and they don't have the financial reserves to be able to bring cash to the closing table.

Just wait a few months and make a pass again. They will either lose it to foreclosure or if they are financially able will save up enough to be able to bring their bigger nestegg to closing to get out from under it. The other thing that could happen is they find someone that brings a partnership deal.

6x6,

MikeA - This couple paid $50,000 cash for the house, just a year ago. There is no mortgage here and nothing to foreclose on.

The After Rehab Value of this house is only about $65,000. It is located in an older but stable Class C neighborhood. The house next door, which is all brick and twice the square footage, sold for $40,000 last year.

Robert- that is both dirty and unethical when you have the skills and knowledge to understand what you were looking at before you made an offer,especially considering you would say you know more than the home inspector.

Roy, why would you pay $30000 for a house you will put $25000 into when it is worth about $65000 after being repaired? that is not worth messing with unless possibly if you got it for almost nothing

Roy, why would you pay $30000 for a house you will put $25000 into when it is worth about $65000 after being repaired? that is not worth messing with unless possibly if you got it for almost nothing.

Ken - I do not buy houses to flip them. Never have and probably never will. Besides, flipping houses in my town is a fools game and we have a graveyard here where all of the broke amateur flippers are buried.

GKARL said, "Unless a fool comes along, that place will remain unsold."

Since money isn't going to do it, ask for terms.

Why not counter at 40, have them wrap the existing note and carry it back to you. Then you offer them a SAM on whatever you make on your end.

I have made offers that got rejections and no counters. Had a bank once tell my realtor that his client could make another offer when he was ready to be serious. I made a counter offer less than the first one. Back then the realtors would do whatever you asked for a sale.

That house sold six or so months later for less than my asking. That bank was smart.

I would be all over a deal like you are being coached on. Tell them that you will take the place as is, where is, no inspections, you pay all closing costs so they have no more out of pocket. They carry a note for say 40k but get paid monthly with interest. You cover insurance and taxes. They make a little while doing nothing. They no longer have the headache of owning a flip house from hell. They get to save on capital gains as well, not that there will be much if any.

You pay off the note in XX years. Time it so you are getting rent for a little while and not having everything paid out of pocket.

Ray N PA,

There is no 'existing note here to carry back'. The couple paid $50K cash when they bought the house about a year ago.

Now, what may happen here is this seller will come back to me at a later date and say "We accept your $30K offer". I will then reply by saying "That $30K boat sailed away a month ago" My offer today is $20K.

This same scenario happens to me 15 years ago. House price negotiations started at $20,000 and 4 months later ended up at $6,000. I still own that house and it is still produces juicy rents to this very day.

I'm surprised with the number of times you've done this that there's even a question. But yes, they're not interested in playing ball with you at this time. Are they angry? Are they just being patient?

Who cares? All you need to know is you got nada. Work that route.

Wait 2-3 weeks and offer again. The agent is bound by their fiduciary duty to their client to present the offer, even if they didn't like it the first time. Sometimes, persistence pays off. When they get tired of sitting on their house, maybe you'll be the first person they agreed to sell to. Or not. In any case, it's not worth more than spending maybe 5 minutes every few weeks to follow up.

Hopefully, you've got at least 10 more properties on your short prospects list. This isn't a dance where you're waiting for THEE ONE girl to say yes. Need to have multiple offers going all the time to find a 'yes'.

Our markets are similar, and here you can't even buy a burn house for $30K unless you're off market dealing with a Seller who doesn't know anything about real estate.

Sid,

Where have you been in the last 24 hours? When I make a post here, I expect you to answer it immediately. We do play this game in the same sand box but just in different states. LOL.

Yes, I have a short list of 10 houses I am currently pursuing. Last week, I looked at 3 fixer-uppers and made offers on all of them. One was a 3/2 in a B- hood that listed at $155K and I offered $100K for it and that offered was rejected.

Today, I will be looking at a 3/2/2 foreclosure listed on Zillow at $89,900. The address is 411 Paxton Ave. Glencoe, AL 35905. I spoke with the listing agent yesterday on the phone and she said the front door was not locked, so I could help myself in touring this house. Doors unlocked is typical for foreclosures here.

They probably figured that you were so far apart that they would not get you up to anything resembling acceptable.

You say a typical deal for you is $25,000 with $25,000 in improvements yielding $750 a month in rent. Those are awesome numbers and you clearly add value by improving a place that much.

So if the seller is set on a price, and you can't reach a middle point with price - then terms are the other point you can go back and forth on. With it being free and clear, they can carry paper.

But based on the asking price and what you are saying it needs - I simply don't see ANY common ground. If you want to be all into a deal at $50,000 total cost, and this place needs that much work....it's time to either look for another place or use another method to find that deal.

I am in the low cost capital of the US. The snow belt in the middle of winter. We are in a thin strip that get Lake effect snow. So when a storm comes - which is weekly, we get 8 inches to 14 inches at a whack. Yesterday it was 8-10 inches. Even here and with snow and nasty weather - you would have a hard time finding a place for $25,000 in the MLS. So I just changed how and where I find deals. Sherriff sales, estate sales, and judicial sales along with direct mail and advertising in the free newspaper are paths I have been using since the numbers don't work out well here.

Hope this helps

Ray N PA

The last house I bought was in April of 2024. It was a FSBO that I found by dumb luck. I paid $20K for the house and put an additional $30K into the house and that house now rents for $950/month. I just need one or two of these type deals each year to make me happy.

Melinda - I agree with you. A good professional agent would encourage their clients to make a counter offer even if the counter was just a small nominal amount.

Ray N Pa,