Score Card
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Score Card (by Bonanza [NC]) Dec 1, 2024 8:52 AM
       Score Card (by Robert J [CA]) Dec 1, 2024 9:25 AM
       Score Card (by 6x6 [TN]) Dec 1, 2024 9:42 AM
       Score Card (by 6x6 [TN]) Dec 1, 2024 9:44 AM
       Score Card (by WMH [NC]) Dec 1, 2024 10:58 AM
       Score Card (by zero [IN]) Dec 1, 2024 1:21 PM
       Score Card (by Jason [PA]) Dec 1, 2024 1:33 PM
       Score Card (by Bonanza [NC]) Dec 1, 2024 3:18 PM
       Score Card (by 6x6 [TN]) Dec 1, 2024 4:29 PM
       Score Card (by gevans [SC]) Dec 1, 2024 5:14 PM
       Score Card (by MikeA [TX]) Dec 1, 2024 5:30 PM
       Score Card (by Joel Miller [PA]) Dec 1, 2024 6:47 PM
       Score Card (by Sean [OR]) Dec 1, 2024 10:38 PM
       Score Card (by zero [IN]) Dec 2, 2024 9:07 AM
       Score Card (by WMH [NC]) Dec 2, 2024 9:21 AM
       Score Card (by zero [IN]) Dec 2, 2024 12:45 PM
       Score Card (by 6x6 [TN]) Dec 2, 2024 1:04 PM
       Score Card (by Joel Miller [PA]) Dec 2, 2024 1:12 PM
       Score Card (by Nicole [PA]) Dec 2, 2024 4:10 PM
       Score Card (by Joel Miller [PA]) Dec 2, 2024 4:41 PM
       Score Card (by zero [IN]) Dec 3, 2024 8:07 AM
       Score Card (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Dec 3, 2024 12:16 PM
       Score Card (by Bonanza [NC]) Dec 3, 2024 7:56 PM
       Score Card (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Dec 4, 2024 7:34 AM

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Score Card (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2024 8:52 AM
Message:

When I started buying houses, the bank would always want a personal finance statement so I whipped up an asset and liability spreadsheet. It wasn't hard or fancy. Over the years, I've taken to updating it in December.

For the property values, I would look up on Zillow and Redfin their estimated value and average those numbers. Bank accounts and 401K values were easy to plug in. Car values can be located on Kelly blue book web site. Loan balances were also easy to determine.

It's become kind of a score card for me. Am I increasing my net worth? Did I have a good year?

Simply taking (this year Net Worth - last year Net Worth) / last year net worth gives you a percentage increase.

This year I am questioning if I am getting ahead. I think we all know the government CPI is "manipulated". CPI is being reported at 2.4% for the last 12 months.

My growth was 16% from last year which sounds good but it is measured in a dollar value that is decreasing. Maybe I am just breaking even?

Anyway that's where my mind is going on this Sunday morning. Who's got any input, insight, or thoughts on this topic?

--65.188.xxx.xxx




Score Card (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2024 9:25 AM
Message:

I can no longer apply at a bank, savings in loan or any other "governmental" insured institution for a real estate loan! Why? Asset Protection!

Once when I was being sued by tenants with liars, I mean lawyers, they obtained a loan application from the lender of the property in question. A kid, who's parents purchased him a used car, decided to change his oil himself. He has no job, lousy grades, but the parents gave him a car on his 16th birthday. All illegals, with a California law saying everyone deserves a drivers license. No insurance of course.

The kid did not use any axle stands. Just a car floor jack and a few blocks. The kids siblings jumped on top of the car while he was changing the oil and the car slipped off the jack, falling on top of him. Not dead. Not serious injures. The car was partially supported by the flipped jacked and blocks tipped over.

The kids attorney showed the jury that I had millions in assets. Therefor, the jury reached a verdict for millions against me. It's a good thing that the property was held by a C corporation and the kid, his family and attorney had to pay the "taxes" on the verdict, even though I refused to make a corporate distribution. They had to go bankrupted, even with a MM verdict. I got it reduced to medical bills plus pain an suffering. $65,000 instead of MM's. That I paid to the bankruptcy court and they got nothing. --45.32.xx.xxx




Score Card (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2024 9:42 AM
Message:

Thanks for the math lesson. I to self-educate more in mathematics. I know I am slipping and I bet most are. --73.108.xxx.xxx




Score Card (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2024 9:44 AM
Message:

I am also looking forward to see what Ray and Hoosier have to input. --73.108.xxx.xxx




Score Card (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2024 10:58 AM
Message:

We don't particularly care about net worth as it's kind of a made-up number based on shifting values we can't control: stocks, bonds, houses, other assets...nothing we can really do about those numbers.

We care about cash flow only. Are we making more per month/per year than we did last year? And then the question is: Are we GROSSING more or NETTING more?

And how much are we paying in taxes as a result? --173.28.xx.xxx




Score Card (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2024 1:21 PM
Message:

Bonanza I would think that the money you spent this year getting your MTRs up and running would skew that number.

Then again I am headed out the door for a late T-Day meal at a Cracker Barrel. Woo, hoo. Would rather stay home and run my own numbers.

--154.47.xx.xxx




Score Card (by Jason [PA]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2024 1:33 PM
Message:

I have a spreadsheet that I have had for years that I update every now and then,especially if dealing with a lender. Net worth has gone up alot in 4 years, I pay alot of attention to that.

--174.175.xx.xxx




Score Card (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2024 3:18 PM
Message:

@Robert J - I wish I had your knowledge / life experience.

@6X6 - Well this math is just addition, subtraction, multiplication and a little division. Not too hard. I think it is important to see some forward progress for your efforts.

@WMH - I think you need some goal or score card if not net worth. Gross and net income would be a more tangible marker. Which goes back to my original question - if the CPI is not a good marker for inflation, and your net is up 10%, are you making more, breaking even, or falling behind with respect to inflation.

@zero - it probably would have been. I don't really know. How do you account for spending to make more money in theory?

@Jason - I like to see some forward progress on ye old financial statement. I like to see debt decreasing and assets rising. --65.188.xxx.xxx




Score Card (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2024 4:29 PM
Message:

Bonanza, yes, just the basics, however, real life examples of how and when to combine them aren't always taught. --73.108.xxx.xxx




Score Card (by gevans [SC]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2024 5:14 PM
Message:

We also have a basic spreadsheet. We have been debt free for about 10 years now, that is a tremendous help.

Net worth went way up as most of our worth is in RE. But due to inflation, I mean the REAL inflation numbers... we may have lost ground.

But we live comfortably and are still expanding. So we still feel pretty good about the whole big picture thing. --74.222.xx.xxx




Score Card (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2024 5:30 PM
Message:

I'm with you. I have a spreadsheet that I have tracked my net worth for almost 30 years with a really pretty line chart showing that value going up year-by-year, even projected into the future based on past %s. It was invaluable as a motivator to me. Every major decision was weighed against what the likely impact to the net worth over the long haul. In fact, it was considering how to increase net worth that caused me to jump into RE.

I agree with WMH, cash flow is important in the shorter term to make sure you are able to pay the bills. That said, Net Worth is and has been the gold standard measurement for hundreds of years by the old money families in measuring long-term success.

Trying to drive up current cash flow can cause you to make poor long term decisions. An example is deferring replacement on a roof that is leaking, great for driving the current years cash flow higher but ultimately more costly when you have a big repair bill down the road. Net worth tends to focus you on the longer term. The challenge is to account for your assets real value when calculating it. For example, that 20 year old roof should be depreciated in your calculation for the property value. I doubt many of us track our net worth down to that level but even without that level it can still be a good tool to keep you focused on increasing the size of your empire.

So, both are important. Cash flow for the short-term and net worth for the longer. --209.205.xxx.xx




Score Card (by Joel Miller [PA]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2024 6:47 PM
Message:

OK, call me an accounting nerd, but I LOVE preparing my annual financial statement. I do it in April after the taxes have been paid for the prior year. To compare it to football, I consider our tax return preparation to be the playoffs, and the personal statement to be our Super Bowl. (Sick, I know.)

Anyway, as a former accountant, I can tell you that the all-encompassing personal financial statement (income statement and balance sheet as well as a statement of current cash flow) is the gold standard for presenting your financial condition (and comparing it to a prior period) for yourself and any lenders.

In a few months when our landlord association is offering a Landlord 201 instruction day, I will be teaching on how to prepare financial statements. I will be teaching from the chapter in my best-selling book "Build Real Estate Wealth: Enjoy the Journey of Rental Property Investment" that is devoted to this subject. It is VERY informative, and you may get some tips on how to make your best presentation to lenders. It is available on Amazon. --184.56.xx.xxx




Score Card (by Sean [OR]) Posted on: Dec 1, 2024 10:38 PM
Message:

I have a spreadsheet that I update each month with values (stocks, 401k, real estate) and debt to estimate net worth.

Another tab has the breakdown of cashflow per property, gross and net.

It's not 100% and not rocket science, but gives me something to update each month. --128.77.xx.xxx




Score Card (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2024 9:07 AM
Message:

Bonanza, I just wing it and hope for the best. Throw all my money on the table and pray that I get the correct number on the roulette wheel.

Well maybe not that haphazardly.

Used to be that each door had to make enough to cover its own expenses for the year, not even calculating depreciation for capital expenses.

Now we look at it as a whole. I put a lot of roofs on a couple years back. I pulled money out of a few places to do so. Well I pulled more than that and used the excess to pay off a couple places and buy another.

I openly admit that we probably are flying by the seat of our pants when it comes to long term net worth. I have an excel file I created back when we started. It has grown but doesn't have all the data points it should.

I run a new copy each year and have a couple pages that hold data from the start. Property cost, profit/loss for each year, estimated property value, mortgages, etc.

Would love to move to the next level on tracking this stuff. I love running the numbers. I realize that they can be manipulated at times to make the outcome more desirable, but I try and keep them as real as possible.

--107.147.xx.xx




Score Card (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2024 9:21 AM
Message:

In the very early days, we used to try to run each property as an entity and put aside x per property, but quickly realized that could result in deferred maintenance on one while another flourished, so we take care of any property as needed. In the end, it's all one pot of gold.

Since our end goal is passing it all on to the kids as a going concern, we don't put off that new roof or HVAC - we do what needs to be done now so they won't inherit a lot of decrepit buildings. In fact DH is in "future me" mode where he does things to be kind to "future him" rather than just getting it done as fast as possible. --173.28.xx.xxx




Score Card (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2024 12:45 PM
Message:

Well put WMH, better than I said it.

We now put out the fires as well as what we know s upcoming.

It makes more sense to do it that way. Took us a bit to figure that out tho. --107.147.xx.xx




Score Card (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2024 1:04 PM
Message:

Joel Miller, you should speak with Jeffrey about selling your book on Mr. LL as well. --73.108.xxx.xxx




Score Card (by Joel Miller [PA]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2024 1:12 PM
Message:

I would very much like that. Ray N PA is supposed to be putting in a good word with Jeffrey. I met Jeffrey once when our landlord group had him in for a talk, and I was the president at the time. --184.56.xx.xxx




Score Card (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2024 4:10 PM
Message:

I keep all my funds together in one account but on paper I have each property being self sufficient. Should one need significant funds that aren't in that account, I "borrow" (again on paper) from another building. And then I repay at whatever amounts and timing are needed. --98.237.xxx.xx




Score Card (by Joel Miller [PA]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2024 4:41 PM
Message:

Actually, 6X6, if you know of anyone else who could put a bug in Jeffrey's ear about selling my book on Mister Landlord, I would appreciate it if you would bring it up. Thanks! I am likely to sign this week with a podcast booking agency to represent me for guest appearances on real estate podcasts, so "Build Real Estate Wealth" will begin to be promoted nationwide. --184.56.xx.xxx




Score Card (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Dec 3, 2024 8:07 AM
Message:

Send an email to the editor. That will get to him.

You could also call and talk to Barbara. Tell her I said hello. Then have her get your information to him.

--107.147.xx.xx




Score Card (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Dec 3, 2024 12:16 PM
Message:

16% increase in net worth doesn't say that much. after all, are you guessing the value of your places? Didn't the Trumpster get convicted for giving his opinion on a property's value. Some properties are just hard to figure out the values.

I have small percentage ownership interest in a series of oil wells down in the Permian basin in Texas. I get royalty checks of about $1,800 to $3,000 monthly and one large check annual for about $15,000. What is that worth? I know I paid only a six figure number for it, but that value depends largely what party is in office. One party will inflate the monthly payments by pushing a green agenda. The other party will devalue the monthly payments by opening up more exploration.

16% is a solid return. But it doesn't express the amount of risk you faced to get that 16%. If you are working in class D locations, 16% might be a low number. I have seen pics of some of your places and you should be happy with 16%. Those are solid returns with quality products.

--24.101.xxx.xxx




Score Card (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Dec 3, 2024 7:56 PM
Message:

We all know the price of real estate depends on the day of the year it's sold and a host of other factors. Might sell for 240K in April and 200K in December. I am not planning on selling anything and mainly just using an average zillow / redfin price as a theoretical objective 3rd party. At least for my area they are in the ballpark for an optimistic sale.

I am happy with things increasing and when inflation was under control it would be an awesome number. If real inflation is 10% then my 16% is really 6%. Things are moving up and down and sideways. Hard to know what the true aim is.

At the end of the day it's all good until it isn't. Let the good times roll! --65.188.xxx.xxx




Score Card (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Dec 4, 2024 7:34 AM
Message:

You can force appreciation on a property. The worse shape it is in the more you can force it.

You have nicer places so 16% is a solid return that I would be happy with. Am I please with inflation - not really, but the great news is we as investors are in positions to ride out the storms that much better than others --24.101.xxx.xxx



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