ESA - must I take? (by Tony [NJ]) Nov 14, 2024 7:56 AM
ESA - must I take? (by Jason [VA]) Nov 14, 2024 8:02 AM
ESA - must I take? (by NE [PA]) Nov 14, 2024 8:03 AM
ESA - must I take? (by Ken [NY]) Nov 14, 2024 8:11 AM
ESA - must I take? (by zero [IN]) Nov 14, 2024 8:39 AM
ESA - must I take? (by RB [TN]) Nov 14, 2024 8:49 AM
ESA - must I take? (by NE [PA]) Nov 14, 2024 9:12 AM
ESA - must I take? (by Scott [IN]) Nov 14, 2024 9:40 AM
ESA - must I take? (by Tony [NJ]) Nov 14, 2024 10:02 AM
ESA - must I take? (by Jason [VA]) Nov 14, 2024 10:05 AM
ESA - must I take? (by 6x6 [TN]) Nov 14, 2024 10:12 AM
ESA - must I take? (by plenty [MO]) Nov 14, 2024 10:46 AM
ESA - must I take? (by Ken [NY]) Nov 14, 2024 11:06 AM
ESA - must I take? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Nov 14, 2024 11:07 AM
ESA - must I take? (by S i d [MO]) Nov 14, 2024 11:57 AM
ESA - must I take? (by Bonanza [NC]) Nov 14, 2024 2:36 PM
ESA - must I take? (by Bonanza [NC]) Nov 14, 2024 2:39 PM
ESA - must I take? (by John... [MI]) Nov 14, 2024 2:50 PM
ESA - must I take? (by MikeA [TX]) Nov 14, 2024 4:27 PM
ESA - must I take? (by John... [MI]) Nov 14, 2024 7:34 PM
ESA - must I take? (by S i d [MO]) Nov 14, 2024 11:17 PM
ESA - must I take? (by S i d [MO]) Nov 15, 2024 8:07 AM
ESA - must I take? (by John... [MI]) Nov 15, 2024 8:58 AM
ESA - must I take? (by Tony [NJ]) Nov 16, 2024 10:26 AM
ESA - must I take? (by Jason [VA]) Nov 16, 2024 10:59 AM
ESA - must I take? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Nov 16, 2024 11:07 AM
ESA - must I take? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Nov 16, 2024 11:08 AM
ESA - must I take? (by WMH [NC]) Nov 16, 2024 11:16 AM
ESA - must I take? (by Mapleaf18 [NY]) Nov 16, 2024 11:37 AM
ESA - must I take? (by Mapleaf18 [NY]) Nov 16, 2024 11:42 AM
ESA - must I take? (by Wmh [NC]) Nov 16, 2024 1:30 PM
ESA - must I take? (by Mapleaf18 [NY]) Nov 16, 2024 3:27 PM
ESA - must I take? (by GLR [MA]) Nov 21, 2024 5:19 PM
ESA - must I take? (by Tony [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 7:56 AM Message:
A past tenant - from a property I sold - is interested in my no pets apartment. It was a generally good experience then. He has a better paying job AND an ESA dog. He got this ESA dog this past summer because he’s still getting over breaking up with his former girlfriend – over 2 years ago.
He texted me a copy of the ESA’s registration with usaservicedogs.org .
I want to be compliant and I want to maintain my no pets policy if I can do so legally.
He did not offer any documentation from any doctor and I’m reluctant to ask questions without being counseled so I come before this group for advice.
Thanks in advance for your responses.
--73.215.xxx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 8:02 AM Message:
“The paperwork doesn’t comply with HUD’s regulations and therefore we cannot accept this as a service or support animal”.
This is accurate and legal but provide no additional details. --73.147.xxx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 8:03 AM Message:
Dig deep on him. His life may have other red flags now to deny for. I had a girl come to rent from me maybe a year and a half ago. Good job, good credit. She then moved to buy a house with her boyfriend. Ok, no problem. About 3-4 weeks later she inquired about a different rental. I thought that quite odd but figured maybe the house purchase fell through. I pull her and her boyfriends credit and her credit absolutely tanked in less than a year. This ESA culture is pathetic. I wonder how isolated it is to America? --24.152.xxx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 8:11 AM Message:
NE- probably isolated to well to do nations,poor people dont have time to pretend to have mental problems,hunger has a way of getting people to hussle. --74.77.xx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 8:39 AM Message:
The few ESA people that I have seen are on the lower end of the economic scale.
Seems odd that a person who struggles to pay the rent can have two ESAs that they have to feed.
These types ruin it for the people that might actually need an ESA, in my opinion. --107.147.xx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by RB [TN]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 8:49 AM Message:
All part of a mental health epidemic. --69.130.xxx.xxx |
ESA - must I take? (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 9:12 AM Message:
There’s no such thing as “needing” an ESA. I don’t care what push from woke psychologists and hosts of The View say. 100,000 years of existence and now humans need to be prescribed a dog to get through their day. It’s pathetic. --24.152.xxx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by Scott [IN]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 9:40 AM Message:
Do what Jason said. The ESA paperwork must comply with HUD and state regulations/laws. ESA registration doesn't and will not be accepted.
HUD instructs landlords to guide these people about how to submit proper paperwork. Do nothing of the kind. If they ask, tell them this is a legal matter, and you cannot offer legal advice. --107.141.xx.xxx |
ESA - must I take? (by Tony [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 10:02 AM Message:
Thanks to all of you for your responses. I could respond the way Scott and Jason suggested but I believe I read somewhere that it’s relatively easy to get a medical professional to prescribe an ESA and I fear that would be the applicant’s next step.
I told the applicant I’d waive the usual application process but I’m leaning towards rescinding that courtesy and requesting a completed app. Walking on eggs here ...
--73.215.xxx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 10:05 AM Message:
Don’t tell them WHAT documentation is required, that’s not your job. Simply state that their documentation doesn’t comply….and then if your phone accidentally blocks their number, glitches happen --73.147.xxx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 10:12 AM Message:
You absolutely need an application. --73.108.xxx.xxx |
ESA - must I take? (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 10:46 AM Message:
I'd consider. But with regards to the other residents in the building. Everyone with a pet or esa wants to live in a no pet building. Like smokers they don't want to live where other people have smoked! --172.59.xxx.xxx |
ESA - must I take? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 11:06 AM Message:
you will find other reasons to deny them,cheaters cheat elsewhere in there life,not just on this issue --74.77.xx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 11:07 AM Message:
Vote Zero for Prez --24.101.xxx.xxx |
ESA - must I take? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 11:57 AM Message:
What Jason said. Full stop. Mark email and phone number as "SCAM" and you're done.
This ain't hard... unless you for some reason believe you are duty and honor bound to receiving and answer every attempt at communication someone makes. Then, you're up a creek and yes you will be accepting it whether you like it or not, because you are correct... all a renter has to do is say, "I'm feeling anxious and my doggy makes me feel better." Boom. Now you're stuck.
You've heard me preach is here 100x: "All calls to voicemail; all emails get answered if and when I get around to them."
Consider adopting that policy and 95% of your applicant problems will disappear.
--184.4.xx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 2:36 PM Message:
If you want to take a softer stance than Jason, I have this on my pet applications. I tell them what I need and if they give it to me then fine. That website is not what I need. There is no such thing as a support animal registry. It is just a scam site to rip off gullible pet owners. Often other applications come in as well and they may lose out on the place while they are getting the paperwork together.
To have an animal be considered in your rental application as a support animal, you must include the following with your filled-out application:
1. A written request for a support animal as a reasonable accommodation.
2. Evidence from your healthcare provider of a disability and that you have a disability-related need for an assistance animal.
Misrepresentation of support animals is a Class 3 misdemeanor (N.C.G.S.A. § 168-4.5)
Any animal initially accepted will need an in-home visit to verify that they are friendly and social animals.
--65.188.xxx.xxx |
ESA - must I take? (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 2:39 PM Message:
Also I approve or deny an application before we ever get into animals. If he doesn't have the income, or the credit score, or rental history, or whatever then the whole ESA is not an issue because he is the issue. --65.188.xxx.xxx |
ESA - must I take? (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 2:50 PM Message:
What Bonanza said.
A lot of others above just asking for a lawsuit. You all complain about how these people get free legal representation and then walk right into muddy legal waters for some reason. Heh.
--107.181.xxx.x |
ESA - must I take? (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 4:27 PM Message:
John, did you actually read what Tony wrote? He specifically "registered" with one of the sites that HUD called out in their clarification documentation on ESA's. No muddy water there, a "registered" ESA is not valid, requires a letter from a medical provider. --209.205.xxx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 7:34 PM Message:
Lots of people with legit ESAs also "register" them on those sites to get the badging and such.
Him mentioning that he registered it on some web site does NOT mean that it isn't valid. Could be. Might not be. Not the point.
The point is this: people saying that they block his number or just stop talking to him or ignore it and hope it just goes away are the ones that are muddying the water here. THAT is who I was referring to.
As I said, I agree with those that say that you require the proper documentation for an ESA. Anything else -- including just assuming that he must not have it because he used a website or blocking his number to try to avoid the problem -- IS muddying the water and asking for legal trouble.
--107.181.xxx.x |
ESA - must I take? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Nov 14, 2024 11:17 PM Message:
John, I know you're a smart guy and know a lot about this topic, and I respect that. But I think you're wrong on this and here's why.
Anyone who comes to me with a LEGIT ESA will know what the proper protocol is. They will have been to their provider and have the proper documentation in hand. They'll know what is needed. Those folks are 100% fine and I grant their request, no questions asked.
The ones who bring the "registered" certs do not have legit ESAs in my experience. They went to a website that said "Here's how to get around pet fees"... That's why they provide the wrong stuff: they don't know what the right stuff is because no one has ever given them the right stuff. They're frauds.
I have has over a dozen people send me their "registration" for an ESA. When I respond that I need the correct document... Zero of them have ever provided it. Why not? Because it was a scam to fake it and try to avoid pet fees.
I have never rejected or refused to look at an application with the legit ESA docs. Ever. I don't take kindly to fraudulent claims. They can pound sand. You're welcome to hand hold them through the process of scamming the system in your rentals if you like, but I think that just makes it worse for people with a legit need. --184.4.xx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Nov 15, 2024 8:07 AM Message:
And just to emphasize the main point... I'm denying them for failing to be honest and cooperative, NOT on whether or not they have a legit ESA. I'd treat a fake paystub or an applicant using their friend from work as a "landlord" reference the same way. Fraud is an instant DQ, and I have no interest in or obligation to make any further communication with such a person.
People with legit ESAs know what to do. The shysters don't.
--184.4.xx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Nov 15, 2024 8:58 AM Message:
Sid: The part that you are missing is that they will go to a doctor and get the proper documentation eventually. It is not difficult and we all know that. Therefore, assuming that they won't and ignoring their application or requests is asking for legal trouble.
There are plenty of ways to get around this sort of person WITHOUT taking the legal risk.
That is why I will maintain that some people make stupid moves when they don't want someone with a (potential) ESA. It is easy to not accept them legally in most cases. So why take the risky route?
Note that I said nothing about hand-holding them through anything. I simply require that they provide proper documentation for an ESA.
What Jason said above in the 2nd post is fine. What Bonanza said is fine. But when people start talking about "accidentally blocking their number" and such, they are just being foolish.
Jason already had a great response of basically going "This isn't the required documentation". Why screw it up by adding risky legal behavior? The problem was already solved before the risk was taken. Don't give a legal opening to people who get free legal representation. This seems simple and obvious to me.
--107.181.xxx.x |
ESA - must I take? (by Tony [NJ]) Posted on: Nov 16, 2024 10:26 AM Message:
This has turned into somewhat of a heated discussion. I appreciate posters’ responses and hope it doesn’t create hard feelings within this community.
My applicant was a previous tenant from almost 3 years back. He checked all the boxes then and probably will now if I run a new app. On the phone he said he got a small pet 5 months ago and asked if that was okay. I said it’s not – I’m consistent with the NO PETS policy.
When he showed up he liked the apartment and reintroduced his pet and now says it’s an ESA dog saying he got it 5 months ago because he’s still getting over breaking up with his former girlfriend – over 2-1/2 years ago. I asked if he had paperwork on the ESA and he texted me a simple registration from usaservicedogs.org.
I understand I can deny this applicant because his “paperwork” is merely a registration that does NOT compel me to take his pet.
Applicant more or less asked if his ESA is okay with me and even offered to pay extra. I stopped responding to him and said I would seek advice on all this.
Opinions here state I can simply disqualify this applicant because his “paperwork” does NOT compel me to take his pet.
Some bottom line questions from me:
Does his current “paperwork” qualify as being dishonest where I can deny his app?
Can that decision stand indefinitely based on “dishonesty”?
If he otherwise qualifies (ie income & credit) what other means might I have to reject this applicant?
My fear is that he agrees to move in without the pet, gets a letter from a medical professional, and in comes the dog.
Sorry for belaboring all this but I have a strong NO PETS preference and want to avoid creating any kind of opportunity for this applicant. And thanks again for your advice.
--73.215.xxx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: Nov 16, 2024 10:59 AM Message:
It’s not a heated discussion, not everybody will agree one hundred percent of the time because we all have different comfort levels in regards to running our business. If your property is advertised as a no pets property, the applicant has the duty to provide sufficient evidence their animal is not a pet. They haven’t provided this evidence, so you can reject them for that. Personally I’d try to find another reason to reject first, but I wouldn’t hesitate to deny for the pet. I’ve done it multiple times and have even cancelled lease signings when they’ve tried to sneak in bogus esa’s after the fact. --73.147.xxx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Nov 16, 2024 11:07 AM Message:
ESAs are for people with mental disabilities, not for people who are sad because they broke up with their girlfriend, So the dog is probably not legit, unless he actually has a mental condition that he is hiding. However, it is not the landlord's place to make a determination about whether or not a person needs an ESA.
Yes, if you let him in without the dog, the dog will soon reappear with ESA paperwork.
No, you can not legally reject for anything involving the ESA.
A suggestion for the future, any time a prior tenant wants to come back you tell them that's wonderful but that everyone has to go through the whole screening process again. Its not just the dog, people's circumstances change. Maybe he has lost a job, or developed a gambling habit, or the disappearing girlfriend ran all his credit cards up to the limit. --76.178.xxx.xxx |
ESA - must I take? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Nov 16, 2024 11:08 AM Message:
Check that paperwork over carefully with a magnifying glass. Some of those fake ESA papers have it in small print that they are for fun only and not for legal purposes. --76.178.xxx.xxx |
ESA - must I take? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Nov 16, 2024 11:16 AM Message:
If you don't mention pets to begin with, people will out themselves.
Recently had an inquiry (I didn't answer as they bypassed the preview questions via Zillow - Zillow sux) where they said they "have service animals, but prefer to deal with a landlord who doesn't object in the first place." Meaning of course they are lying before they even open their mouths.
And the SA's? FOUR dachshunds. I can understand that a tiny dog can be trained for some legit uses, like seizure and sugar low issues...but four of them? Service animals? --173.28.xx.xxx |
ESA - must I take? (by Mapleaf18 [NY]) Posted on: Nov 16, 2024 11:37 AM Message:
I had one of these a while back person went to some sort of online Esa certification Mill and paid 79 bucks. There is no ESA certification or registration so immediately it is bogus. I act very nice and politely send them a boatload of paperwork including Request for a Reasonable Accommodation which sends the fakers packing.
After all, the fakers want something quick and easy and are not willing to jump through all the hoops generally speaking to get around a no pet policy or pet fees.
I have to laugh though; needing a dog to get over a breakup that happened two years ago and calling it an ESA. Thank goodness World War II was fought when it was or we would all be speaking German / Japanese. --64.246.xxx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by Mapleaf18 [NY]) Posted on: Nov 16, 2024 11:42 AM Message:
WMH, Again, the ESA crowd conflates ESA with service animals. Definitely not the same thing.
If they say it's a service animal you can ask two questions:
1. Do you have a disability that requires a service dog?
2. What special task has the service dog been trained to do?
There is no such thing as having four service animals unless each one has been trained to do a special task which is different from the next... highly improbable. --64.246.xxx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by Wmh [NC]) Posted on: Nov 16, 2024 1:30 PM Message:
I know that. But the fact that they start right out trying to lie makes me just ignore them. --174.225.xx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by Mapleaf18 [NY]) Posted on: Nov 16, 2024 3:27 PM Message:
WMH, ditto. --64.246.xxx.xx |
ESA - must I take? (by GLR [MA]) Posted on: Nov 21, 2024 5:19 PM Message:
Check with your town/city regulation in regards to having animal registered. Usually those require some sort of vax/neutering/spaying history. Also, make him provide letter from his doctor/psychologist on their letterhead with the 'prescription' of the ESA. Don't know if this guy is on the up and up, but alot of ESA 'needs' are BS for ppl who just want a dog and think rules don't apply to them. --209.6.x.xxx |
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