Tenant late on their rent and hasn't paid. Which is unusual, and they've been there about 2 1/2 years.

First they text me and say they will pay rent "tomorrow", adding "just like its always been since last year even though nothing's changed to make the rent go up". They followed up by adding a parting shot: "I know how to pay my rent and I will until my lease ends". Basically implying they were leaving at end of lease. Apparently because of the 3% rent raise at her renewal 6 months ago.

I don't usually take things personally but this really hit the mark.

My county had more than doubled the property taxes on the duplex house in 2023, and their explanation to me when I went through weeks of protesting it filling out all the forms and going in front of their board and being denied had been "you can afford it" and "raise their rent".

How can you just let this go, when then the tenant says "Nothing has changed to make the rent go up"? This is so ridiculously unfair!

So. I explained to her carefully that with the increase in taxes (let alone everything else), something had Definitely changed to make the rent go up.

We had in fact, taken a loss only raising rents 3% because they had good rental records and paid their rent on time. So paying your rent on time matters, I said.

"I'll pay tomorrow", she says back. "My point is y'all charge way too much for you're properties when you don't even take care of them"

OK so that also is a complete lie.

Never mind that we paid for the property. The house we bought for her to live in.

Never mind that I go over there myself and mow and weed regularly, had re-painted the garage, I had recently worked on her deck stairs replacing half of them myself after she had seen some mold and one of them had cracked. This was after she had told me she wanted a new deck!!!

She's also paying the second lowest rent of our units. In fact there are 38 1 bedroom apartments listed in my city right now on a major site, and her rent is lower than all of them. ALL of them!

"You don't even take care of the properties". I was just over at a property an hour earlier fixing the screen door they had busted.

She hasn't even complained about anything broken!

How would you reply to this? Stand up for yourself, or let it go.

Honestly I know the advice is often to say nothing. Tenant has been there a little over 2 years and up until now has not caused problems.

But the thought process going on in their head are completely wrong, and the texts are really insulting. Not to mention she still hasn't paid her rent.

Which is the whole reason we're dealing with her at all right.

@MC[PA] You're absolutely right I know.

Sometimes the statements are so outrageous though you're just like, wt f

We're definitely taking a loss on the duplex after the huge tax hike. The only reason we didn't raise rent much is I can't afford the time and work of vacancies until I can work out a second income. The rentals are definitely not paying enough to cover all the big stuff like I need a new garage roof.

I hate that they can just text you jabs at all hours and you have to look as part of maintaining the property.

And there's an element of disrespect involved. The "Are you going to stand up for yourself and take that?" has always been an issue with me especially at jobs when people make up blame for you for things that you didn't even do.

Still the texting is better than phone calls for sure!

Reminds me of comment by someone online last week who said they were "supporting a parasite", meaning the place they were renting their apartment from.

Having been on the other end of this deal now for a number of years, I find this concept kind of maddening.

They usually seem to get the idea of hotels, motels, rental equipment and rental cars.... even things like chartering boats or horse riding and how these businesses can't operate by simply having what you want ready and maintained and giving it to you whenever you want it for free.

And they get that paying rent for a car or boat, or yard tools for instance and then never returning them would be stealing.

But somehow long term housing escapes them.

It seems to be based on the conclusion that after somebody has lived in a house you bought and maintained for them for so long, at some point you are unnecessary and you should just give them the place for free. It might stem back to their younger experiences living with their parents, where they expect to be given the house at some point I'm not sure.

I know it is kind of counter intuitive but having high rents attract a better level of clientele.

You are only cheating yourself when you have below market rents.

If you have 4 units at $600 and market rent is $800, my suggestion would be to raise rent $50 each year until you get to market rent.

$50 x 4 X 12 gives you another $2400 a year.

After 4 years you are making $10,000 more than previously.

Inflation is such that you'll probably have to keep doing every year.

The other option is to get rid of the tenant and start at the market rate. As you point out turnover is expensive. But you are able to go to market rate immediately.

Also you tend to have issues with your tenants. You should try to improve your screening process so that only cooperative tenants actually apply and are accepted.

My suspicion is this tenant has a new boyfriend and is considering moving in with him at his place, so now the gripes begin.

Its important suddenly that her current arrangement feel unreasonable then right.

That is because when I was renovating her deck stairs I asked when she would be out so I could work on them, as she needs to get to her apartment that way. And she told me some days she was spending the night at his place.

Seems likely, just a guess.

That would be fine with me. Vacancies usually set me back a month cleaning up and renovating, advertising and interviewing doing all the work pretty much by myself.

So I don't look forward to them but the apartment can get more rent I'm sure.

Unfortunately also there's President Kamala potentially coming next year and her ideas to fix the housing market. One of them was apparently giving every good tenant who has paid their rent 2 years $25K to move out and go get into a house mortgage. Though I can't imagine how that could even work or wouldn't end badly, it sounds like an empty campaign promise. Nevertheless I really kind of dread her. Not that I'm much of a Trump fan either.

@BonanzaMC one very weird thing I've noticed doing this over the years is so far tenants I have raised rent on at renewal have always stayed, while ones I did not moved out or bolted mid lease.

Why in the world that would be the case I have idea. Maybe psychologically they think the place is worth staying at because the rent went up? Got me it makes little sense but neither do tenants

Owning over 100 unit, from A to C grade properties, locations and tenant mix, I've had the opportunity to try different approaches when dealing with "sour personality people". I've found the best way is the direct approach.

Example on how I handle this issues:

When I'm speaking to them either in person, text or phone call, I say, "I have something to discuss with you when your not busy". This gets them curious and demand to know whats it's about now!

Then I say, "I'm trying to run a business, income property, with a heart. Each time I approach the subject of late rent, I get an attitude from you. I understand things are not always easy, but I try not applying pressure. I simply trying to inquire when rent will be paid"!

If I was a mean person, I would simply issue you a "Three Day Notice to Pay Rent or Quit, adding a late fee the moment the rent is past due". But I don't do that.

I not need the drama or guilt. I have options. Hiring a property manager, which would cause me to raise your rest to cover that extra cost. Eviction, or sale the property.

When my tenant hears this, it will cause them to mellow out.

--------------------------------------------------------------

My father and I have an luxury apartment located in the heart of L.A.'s Miracle Mile district. We rented a unit to the president of a furniture company in the Blue Whale. After a 7 year tenancy he became a ti-rent. So my dad was having trouble sleeping with all of the drama from this tenant. So I told my dad to let me handle this property. I then said to the tenant, "You don't seem happy living here any more. Why don't you move"? He responded, "We have a lease and can't move for 8 months"! Oh I responded, I pulled out a paper and wrote on it, "I Robert xxx, do hereby give tenant X permission to move out early, without having to give the required written 30 day notice! Tenant will be given back their pro-rated rent and full security deposit. I all need is confirmation your moving.

On my parents walk from Hancock Park to Miracle Mile they passed this property an saw this tenant washing his car. He said, "Hello Mr. and Mrs. ...., it's good day, isn't it with a smile".

My dad called me up and said, what did I do to the tenant. This was the first time he greeted them with a smile. I said dad, I gave them an out of he lease, because they were unhappy living there.

How would you reply to this?

There are two things I can’t stand, those who don’t pay on time routinely and those who are ungrateful.

So I can completely relate. I keep this nipped in the Bud by making sure they understand they need to get their act together or turn to friends and family for help- that I am not in a position to be their lender or to float them a loan.

If they have found their rental unaffordable or that it otherwise does not meet their needs I am 100% happy to terminate the lease agreement and they can move without penalty. Because I literally do not need them, they need me (I don’t tell them that but it seems to dawn on them). All my tenants know I would prefer to sell but as long as I have good quality tenants, I will keep the houses - as such, they are all very good.

Sorry that you have yet another tenant causing drama.

More sorry that the rentals are not making you the money that they should.

Awhile back someone mentioned maybe selling one off and using the funds to clean house.

You can't just boot every mouthy tenant or you will have none. But you can set boundaries. Very few of my people talked to me like that and stayed. I give the option immediately to shape up or ship out. Usually I get a reply that they were sorry and just having a bad day. A few times they left or were evicted and left.

For me though I love making money but I love less drama more. If you are that far below market and aren't making enough to cover costs then it seems to be a no brainer.

Boot them and rehab/raise to market, raise to market now and let them decide or sell a place and regroup.

Next, by Steve Growaset.

Another vote for not casting your pearls before swine. Disengate! A long time RE investor told me way back in the eighties, "tenants don't care about your expenses."

Make sure you have your non renewal letter ready to go (it makes you feel better LOL) Hopefully you dont' have that idiotic Good/Just cause in your locality.

I send text notices out on the 3rd. "Just a quick reminder that October's rent is now due. (insert date) is the last day to pay before incurring a late fee. If you have already paid, please disregard this notice.

I'm concerned... if you're at the point where tolerating rude tenants who pay under market rent is the daily mode of operation, it's probably time to seriously consider selling. No one signs up to be a land lord to lose money and be verbally abused. Figure out a plan for how to correct this in the next 6 months, and if it doesn't happen, it's time to list this alligator and move on to better opportunities elsewhere.

@zero [IN] my situation as a 'landlord' is maybe unusual.

I had a decent job contracting in the Tech field and bought my first rental with money I had saved working. It was a run down old building and I renovated it all by myself. Which took a couple years, actually. The idea was I wanted a backup income because of the pressure of always getting laid off in my line of work, which was too high stress.

As I got to my 50s I decided I wanted to be self employed I felt I was getting too old to constantly fear layoffs.

This was my 'life's dream'. To be self employed.

When I finally found out I was once again getting laid off, I cashed in my laughably small retirement fund and bought the second building. I figured rent would at least be income.

I did the math and figured out with the income from both rentals, I could at least survive.

And so I learned to manage them in the school of hard knocks.

So I'm basically living off of 5 units, with my own bills and mortgage. Its life support. As in living VERY thriftily.

So I'm a completely self-made landlord. Without the lord part, lol.

But I can't afford to hire ANYTHING out. Not even yardwork. So. I have to be plumber, carpenter, dispute counselor, appliance repairman, self legal consultant... manager, bill collector, secretary, trash pickup for five families.

I even have to caulk windows. yes, I do windows, lol.

And with the cost of maintaining all that and myself, I don't have much money left over. Not enough, actually.

I can just make it but the big ticket items are mounting. I need a new garage roof. I need trees taken out. I need a new back fence. And on. I've definitely learned to be a Youtube auto mechanic but there's only so much I can do myself.

Unfortunately I had no idea that housing five families could be so much drama. It seems I go from one crisis to the next.

People come and go like musical chairs, and I'm forever repairing and renovating in between.

So, I'm trapped.

The writing is on the wall, I need a second income.

I slowly seem to get poorer every month.

But I've been out of my original line of work so long now, I could not get rehired in my "Career". Not to mention I'm probably too old. So my only bet is a crap job.

But to me.... working a crap job AND dealing with the tenants would be so much as to make life unbearable.

So its up to me to think up a second self employed business before I go bankrupt.

Every month I hope for no drama so I can do that.... and it seems every month I have to deal with it and get nowhere.

Still, EVERY tenant has to pay their rent in order for me to make my bills. That pressure is way more than most landlords face I think. I liken the 1st of the month to spinning the Wheel of Fortune wheel, lol

If I could make just $500 more a month, I could at least cover my big ticket items and not be you know, facing doom.

Like the tree in my backyard that is leaning toward my neighbors house I can't afford to take out, my sinking porch I can't afford to repair, or my car which is on its last leg.

I spend what free time I have watching Youtube home income videos. So its all up to me or I'm sinking, and the clock is ticking.

My family and friends hover somewhere between disapproval (thinking I was a fool getting into this), jealousy, "get a real job!" and "Why don't you try something else?"

Yeah well you're preaching to the choir. Thats what I'm TRYING to figure out.

Too bad I'm always so tired dealing with tenant drama. Maybe this month I will think of something!!!

@Sid [MO] I'm not above selling what I have and putting that money toward another business, but what could I do that would pay as much money and have equal income security?

If I just sell the rentals and live off the sale money, it will run out in no time. And I'll be left with nothing.

I could buy into a REIT but that's not going to pay as much, and seems riskier as you would have to trust they know what they're doing. Not to mention the new Kamala administration seems particularly bent on destroying corporate landlords.

I'm all ears. Let me know your ideas.

Oh I don't think I need to 'Growaset' here.

Believe me I answered every one of her manufactured complaints and at length today. None of which made much sense.

Dignified silence has never been my strong point, heh.

This was a real first time eye opener though. The woman was a good renter for two years, then overnight turned into a complaint ridden, overbearing monster.

She finally did pay her rent, but threw about two pages of abuse in after it. She had never complained before, but now she claims she did all along and I didn't listen. OK well all our communication is through texts, and I don't see any of that... so.

What caused the personality change? Who knows.

In one day I went from worrying about her making rent, to worrying about how I can get this thing out of my life, lol

But there's such a thing as being in a position where you can't afford a vacancy. I need time to start on a second income yesterday, not yet another month setback of vacancy work.

Otherwise I would try and get her out of her lease tomorrow.

I may not have much but I don't have to deal with that.

Nobody deserves that.

As it is she's definitely not being renewed.

I'm starting to wonder if even the boyfriend doesn't want her to move in lol

My daughter and son in law go sell plasma to raise money when they are tight. If the donate ( ahem...sell) twice a week, I think they get $100.

And, I hate to say it, but you need more properties, to make a living, but it's not a great time to buy.

Dupe, I am going to say some things that will probably not sound very nice. You have been warned.

Over the years I have bought a lot of places from people that thought being a LL was passive income. People that watched HGTV or youtube channels and said they could do that, because it looked so easy.

I got started while I still had a W2. I worked all the time, either on the job or the rentals. Spouse and two little ones. She had no job and the kids were too young.

Fortunately I had background. Built houses for years back in the day. Learned electrical from the W2.

You are living in a dream world right now. You are like the tenant that can't make rent. This week I will pay this bill and let that one go. All in hopes that something will come around for you.

Chances are slim that you will get out of this unscathed. You have no money saved back and not enough coming in. You save money by doing everything yourself but your rents are not enough to cover costs plus you have no quality tenants.

You need help. You need training. You need an infusion of money. You need a little bit of sympathy.

Sell a building. Sell the one that either gives you the most trouble or provides the least CF. Take the money from that sale and split it up.

Put some into a rainy day fund. Some into the general expenses fund. Some into the training fund.

That last one is probably the best one for you after you get a little money to tide you over.

I had been doing this for over two decades and thought I was doing alright. Started coming on here because of a specific problem (can't recall now) and stayed for a while.

Then I realized I didn't know what I didn't know. I went to my first convention two years ago and it really changed my perspective on everything.

There are still things I picked up but have yet to incorporate. I still do some silly crap that costs me time and money. Most importantly I learned how to learn all over again.

One last thing that you could do instead of what I suggested above.

I basically told this tenant today that her attitude has become demeaning and insulting, her complaints unreasonable especially given most of them did not make sense, and that we are OK with not renewing her lease. Its up next Spring.

I take particular offense to her quipping that I wasn't doing enough work around the property, and that I wasn't keeping the lawn mowed enough.

Excuse me, but I am not your employee working for your rent. You are paying for the use of the property. I called that bizarre and I meant it.

Regardless I go over there and mow and weed with my own lawn mower. trim, leaf blow and rake regularly. And just got done completely renovating her deck stairs a couple weeks ago.

She also mentioned an incident where her fire alarm could not be shut off over a year ago, and it took "hours" for me to show up.

You are paying rent for the property and living in a standalone house. Not for 24 hour on call services. We do not have an onsite staff, or ability to provide that, I said.

And her complaints went on.

What a monster. And she's only around 25, first time renter.

I said she needs to get in another place and let them try to please her.

She's well on her way to becoming a dragon renter. I hope can get through April unscathed and we don't have to part ways sooner.

As I said there is always some drama going on that is very draining. Its so difficult to just get a stretch of time where I can start something else and some crisis isn't happening. Now I may have another tenant moving out right.

@zero [IN] don't I know.

Unfortunately I can't sell one of the properties because I need all the income. Its a total Catch-22.

I sort of fell into this and then never really had enough money to make it work beyond just paying the bills or to get out of it. Definitely stuck in a trench.

Yep totally want to head off that inevitable scathing.

Maybe I'll figure out something today.

My advice would be to get a job, even if a "crap" job, or some other income source and turn your properties over to a competent property management firm. I predict that your stress level will go way down and your disposable income will go up.

Five rentals, even if paid off, will not provide enough for you to live off of. I realized not too long after getting into this business that 10 paid off rentals would provide me approximately the same net income as my average tenant. If your rentals are paid off, you are likely truly netting about half of what your average tenant makes.

When you are in a financial bind, it severely impairs your ability to make sound management decisions on the properties. I know from my own experience. The GFC almost did me in.

Five rentals should not be taking up much of your time. If you had good management practices, you should be able to work full time and manage way more than 5 properties. Jason has recently posted that he works full time and manages 60. Sid has posted that he works full time and manages over 50. I work full time and currently manage over 30 - down quite a few from my high. There are many others on here who work full time and manage properties. If you get the right processes, procedures, and mindset, it's not that hard.

“ basically told this tenant today that her attitude has become demeaning and insulting, her complaints unreasonable especially given most of them did not make sense, and that we are OK with not renewing her lease. It’s up next Spring.”

You are saying that she lives in a stand alone home and you take care of the yard? I thought it was a duplex. I have one duplex that is side by side and they take care of the yard work. I do take care of the other dupes tho because they are multi houses on the same lot.

Stop giving away your time.

Can't sell a property because you need all the income? Short term that makes no sense. Unless you paid more for the place than you can sell it for today.

My area has cheaper rents and cheaper houses. I am getting ready to sign a contract on one that I no longer want. I am selling this on contract to another investor. But let's play like I am selling it outright.

Selling for 65k to him. If I put it on the market I would go a little higher to cover commissions and such.

Just to make it easy and for general purposes only say I pay up to 40% in taxes and such. Now I have 39k cash in hand.

I rent the place for $750/mo and holding is only $86.51/mo so my CF is $663.74. That would be something like 4.4 years to break even. Granted that is if nothing bad happened to the place and doesn't count turnovers or rent increases.

If I was in the place that you claim to be and am living below holding on everything I could sell this place and infuse the money into my life. Knowing full and well it is a bandage only and I need to haul some backside to get things working better.

Get the other places filled with better people and more CF. Get a lot of good training. It doesn't have to be expensive. Maybe a convention or better yet go to the next boot camp.

I have gained as much info from the people in the crowd as I did from the speakers at the conventions. Getting to talk to people who have had or are going thru the same situations as you is a big deal.

You should still have money to spare in this first year. But I bet you will be making more money on the units you have left. Plus you will have a buffer for emergencies and such.

Then you can take the knowledge and the spare funds so you can buy another place. With the new info in your head you will make smarter financial decisions. By the third year you will be asking people if they remember when you were struggling all the time and at your wit's end.

First off, five units is no where near enough to live off of, unless you started out with a million in cash and plan to whittle that down. IT Contractors see big money, but forget about things like health insurance, a 401k, or stability. So, maybe that is why five units seemed sufficient. The gross rents look big, but expenses, such as vacancy, eat that up. Good IT contractors are often offered salaried positions. One can know a lot, but if one cannot get along, well, no one wants to make permanent the guy that cannot get along. I know, that's a 'ouch' but sometimes one has to face up to ones' knowledge, skills, abilities. I tend to not be the best at working with my peers. I can manage those below my level well, but cannot manage up, or those at my same level. I get pissy.

Landlording is very much a people business. Knowing when to simply step back, and let tenants chill a bit is huge. Any situation can be made more heated, or more diffused. One has to learn how to diffuse, if needed. I've had to learn to give no facial reaction when present, take time to let a text sit and sit some more if not in tenant's presence.

For job recommendations, I'd say IT helpdesk, which often can be a work from home situation. My son in law did that for several years while getting an associates in it security. He worked 12 hour days Saturday and Sunday at first, then was added to eight hours Monday and Tuesday. So, I know those jobs are out there. Something like that leaves plenty of time for working on rentals in the week.

And Lowes, HD, Menards all love people who want to work weekends. I suggest the weekend work as I prefer to leave my tenants alone on weekends, if possible. That's their time with kiddos and such. But, most of my tenants don't mind me being in the property when they are at work. One doesn't want me in there when she is not there; I am fine with that. She's older, she's seen some stuff, I'm sure.