We get very few ESAs on apps. I like to think it's because my app states

"Notice: Misrepresenting a service animal is criminal fraud punishable by up to $5000 fine and possible jail time."

(26 states have such a law)

This one is new to me...

They supplied a form letter where the medical office just fills in the blanks with the appropriate info.

The form words are in black and the applicant's name, ailment, dates, etc are in blue, obviously a fillable pdf.

BRAD

PS The applicant said if the paperwork was not adequate he would be happy to pay the animal fees.

I did look up the doctor - he's legit.

Most recently I had a medical professional apply to my vacancy. She started puffery by saying she was "overqualified" and scoffed at having to fill out the prequal since she just sold her fancy house. I had to insist several times that I make no exceptions and she will have to fill out the prequal like everyone else.

(red flag number 1; feeling special, different and needing an exception)

I got the strong feeling that she was divorcing her doctor husband and that's why the house was sold. She was overly chatty and started TMI, sending me photos of all her hobbies, etc which were all rather exotic.

(red flag #2 TMI)

She then casually mentioned her "ESA dog" that goes everywhere with her. Well she no-showed her showing... she did not respond "CONFIRM" on her confirmation text. The next day she texted me that she had fallen and hurt herself and was overnight in the hospital and wasn't able to phone yada yada wanting to reschedule. Using multitudinous amounts of excuses such as "it happens"

WHY did I not find a way to deny them outside the ESA issue?

Because at last count we need 50+ applications to approve ONE, and even then we are fudging the criteria to fill the home.

NONE of our recent leases are clean, clear residents. All had some kind of issue or confusion to qualify.

It's not the rent prices, it's our society's craziness.

If I had used an automated pre-screening system that ONE out of FIFTY would have been bounced.

We're back to searching for the least terrible of the awful.

Even out of "professionals" like nurses, teachers, store manager, etc.

BRAD

Agree with NE. I saw this boilerplate "certificate" that this one applicant sent me. The doctor was "legit" but practiced in several states and they were charging $79 and up to get his John Hancock on this certificate.

The way I found it was to type in the exact verbiage on the "certificate" and sure enough it was pretty much a fill in the blank mail merge easily populated with the person's name, animal's name, animal's breed and a vague, very generic diagnosis of "anxiety."

FAKE! 99% of them are just trying to get around "no pets" or having to pay any extra to have their pets with them. And yes I used the words PETS in this forum (although all my forms say "animals") because that's EXACTLY what they are.

I keep wondering if that notice ever gets followed through on when you discover the fraud?

The fraud will continue if not.

RB, good one.

DJ, to see if they can get the discount. Same as bargaining for a price on something you want to buy, even though you will buy it regardless.

It's my understanding that the Indiana ESA law requires health care providers to be licensed in Indiana to provide ESA letters to Indiana residents. You should be able to ask the doctor's office for proof of that. And while you're at it, remind them that the penalties for misrepresenting an ESA extend to the doctor as well as the "patient".

If this doctor is properly licensed, they are still required to examine the patient to assess the disability. If the doctor is just signing a form letter for a fee, then the doctor is violating the Indiana ESA law.

Scott: What "Indiana ESA law" are you referring to? I did a quick search and couldn't find one. (I did find one site that specifically said that Indiana has no ESA-specific laws and therefore only federal law applies, but it was a year old, so maybe you have a brand new law?)

Just curious, as I'd like to read it.

If I recall, in the past, Brad has pointed out specifically that Indiana does NOT have a penalty for faking an ESA. He uses:

"Notice: Misrepresenting a service animal is criminal fraud punishable by up to $5000 fine and possible jail time."

...as a way to scare people into telling the truth even thought there is no such law in his state. The statement is technically true, but implies something that is not.

So, I am curious about this Indiana law that allows these beyond-the-federal-law exceptions. If it exists, I'd like to read it, but can't find it. If it doesn't exist, then it is a bit dangerous to tell other Indiana LLs what can and can't be done. So, I just want to make sure it exists to make sure Indiana LLs do it properly.

Elena: If you do a $200 non-refundable fee for ESAs, then you are violating federal law. We don't get to just go "I don't bother with ESAs" and ignore the law.

John,

Indiana Code:

IC 22-9-7 Chapter 7. Emotional Support Animals in Housing

Question for John - Can you charge a $200 screening fee for animal SCREENING if someone is claiming either a ESA or a pet?

When I first wrote about ESA YEARS ago, Indiana law concerned SERVICE animals.

Legal wording is evolving, using the term "support animals" to include SERVICE and ESA.

Scott,

Thanks for the heads up about the law applying to medical persons who misrepresent.

When I first wrote about ESA YEARS ago, Indiana law concerned SERVICE animals.

Legal wording is evolving, using the term "support animals" to include SERVICE and ESA.

Scott,

Thanks for the heads up about the law applying to medical persons who misrepresent.

Scott: THanks for the link. Like I said, when I searched, all I found were sites like what 6x6 found that says no such law existed. They must be out of date.

I'll have to read it over when I have more time. Taking a quick look at it, it mentions that the healthcare providers have to be "licensed under" various Indiana Code laws. But then if you read that section, it mentions that a license from another state may apply in some cases.

Again, I'll read it if I have more time, but I'm still not sure you can say that the provider must be licensed within the state of Indiana. Because Indiana licensing appears to recognize licenses from other states for some professions?

I still see several online places that offer services that specifically state that they are in compliance with Indiana's currently laws on this. So, they either have Indiana-licensed people or are reading the law like I do where they are recognizing licenses from other states as valid.

Ray-N-Pa: I don't believe so, no.

I think the easiest way to think about it is like this. Pretend someone applies to your place. No animal/pet at all. You approve them and they know exactly what their costs will be. All is set.

You then have the exact same person, but they have a Support Animal of some sort. If that dollar amount changes -- or you require further things that require additional costs to them (such as renter's insurance, for example), then that is likely in violation.

For the animal I would need be reaching out for 1) the mental health professional 2) The Vet for the shot record 3) insurance agent for renters insurance.

Now I require all of residents to have renters insurance. But after you facture in reaching out to a doctor and a vet, both of these folks have at least five years of college each with the Vet and a typical shrink having 10 plus, what would they be charging?

Are shots required by local law where you need to confirm with a vet that they have been done? If not, then you can't enforce that either.

And, like you said, you're checking on renter's insurance anyhow.

So, you're talking about a few minutes to verify a healthcare professional is real? You can't do that with a Google search in most cases?

I personally don't think a judge would see you deciding to check on a doctor as a burden worth $200...

A word of caution...

You can be right all day long, quote chapter and verse of the laws, and still be cut down. It's about LAW not LOGIC.

EVERYTHING we are discussing here is subject to the INTERPRETATION of your LOCAL Fair Housing office.

Best advice: talk to your local office and learn what they expect. It also makes YOU look good in their eyes that you care enough about their mission to learn.

You might get a warning rather than a fine.

I will mention that I don't know of any local LLs who got in trouble for running afoul of these laws.

BRAD

Whenever Brad brings this up, I feel the need to comment that I disagree with him.

Like he said, it is about the LAW, not LOGIC. Therefore, some local yocal trying to LOGICALLY say what they THINK you should do is not a good idea. Follow the law. If you go to court, you trying to drag in your local housing director is unlikely to help much. They aren't going to throw themselves under the bus to save you regardless of how good a relationship you think you have.

What will matter is the law. Not their interpretation of it. I've repeatedly seen Brad post here mentioning things that his local housing director said were fine that are clearly in violation of federal law.

If you are following Federal law, wouldn't that also give an opportunity for an appeal to a higher court?

Quick google search looks like 16k for first violation and 70k for next.

I am sure these would require a long drawn out court case as well but I didn't dive into it.

I am not to the helpless stage just yet.