service animals (by Marcia [WI]) Jun 23, 2024 6:29 PM
service animals (by plenty [MO]) Jun 23, 2024 6:40 PM
service animals (by MC [PA]) Jun 23, 2024 6:47 PM
service animals (by Marcia [WI]) Jun 23, 2024 6:48 PM
service animals (by Tim [CA]) Jun 23, 2024 7:07 PM
service animals (by Marcia [WI]) Jun 23, 2024 7:22 PM
service animals (by Marcia [WI]) Jun 23, 2024 7:24 PM
service animals (by ken [NY]) Jun 23, 2024 7:58 PM
service animals (by Bonanza [NC]) Jun 23, 2024 9:23 PM
service animals (by Marcia [WI]) Jun 23, 2024 9:45 PM
service animals (by Bonanza [NC]) Jun 24, 2024 6:18 AM
service animals (by Bonanza [NC]) Jun 24, 2024 6:22 AM
service animals (by 6x6 [TN]) Jun 24, 2024 7:45 AM
service animals (by John... [MI]) Jun 24, 2024 9:08 AM
service animals (by mapleaf18 [NY]) Jun 24, 2024 12:29 PM
service animals (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Jun 24, 2024 1:54 PM
service animals (by Marcia [WI]) Jun 24, 2024 3:01 PM
service animals (by Bonanza [NC]) Jun 24, 2024 3:02 PM
service animals (by Bonanza [NC]) Jun 24, 2024 3:04 PM
service animals (by Bonanza [NC]) Jun 24, 2024 3:05 PM
service animals (by DJ [VA]) Jun 24, 2024 3:09 PM
service animals (by Just Tim [AR]) Jun 24, 2024 3:16 PM
service animals (by John... [MI]) Jun 24, 2024 4:40 PM
service animals (by Marcia [WI]) Jun 24, 2024 4:58 PM
service animals (by John... [MI]) Jun 24, 2024 5:17 PM
service animals (by ken [NY]) Jun 24, 2024 6:16 PM
service animals (by John... [MI]) Jun 24, 2024 10:12 PM
service animals (by Still Learning [NH]) Jun 25, 2024 7:32 AM
service animals (by MC [PA]) Jun 25, 2024 7:38 AM
service animals (by S i d [MO]) Jun 25, 2024 8:37 AM
service animals (by John... [MI]) Jun 27, 2024 2:34 PM
service animals (by zero [IN]) Jun 28, 2024 9:43 AM
service animals (by ken [NY]) Jun 28, 2024 4:24 PM
service animals (by zero [IN]) Jun 28, 2024 7:10 PM
service animals (by Marcia [WI]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2024 6:29 PM Message:
I just had 2 travel nurses move into a furnished rental I have. I went down to the apartment a couple hours after they arrived to drop off another set of keys and noticed a dog in the apartment. On of the tenants had her brother come with them and they are telling me that it is a service dog for her brother. They said he is only staying one night. What are the rules for service dogs for visitors?
--104.231.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2024 6:40 PM Message:
He'll be gone tomorrow. --172.59.xxx.xx |
service animals (by MC [PA]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2024 6:47 PM Message:
Make sure he is gone tomorrow. Maybe move in help? Make sure there is no dog waste left. --73.230.xxx.xx |
service animals (by Marcia [WI]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2024 6:48 PM Message:
Yes, he may be gone tomorrow, but will be back again. --104.231.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by Tim [CA]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2024 7:07 PM Message:
Was it a service animal or an ESA? Do a search on this board for service animals and ESA's. There has to be over 50 posts about this topic and it can be complicated. --73.2.xx.xx |
service animals (by Marcia [WI]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2024 7:22 PM Message:
I know the topic has come up numerous times. She stated service dog, and I don't want to ask anymore bc I don't want any dogs down there at all. My biggest question is what are the rules regarding a service dog for a visitor, not a tenant on the lease. This person is not on the leasee. --104.231.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by Marcia [WI]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2024 7:24 PM Message:
I believe it may be an ESA as the brother to one of the tenants who has the dog was a little "off" --104.231.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by ken [NY]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2024 7:58 PM Message:
As far as i am concerned you dont have to allow a visitor to have a service animal.I would wait to see if it is gone tomorrow,if it is i would be over it,if they lied to me about that we would have a problem if i cared as much as you seem to.They dont think they did anything wrong as they believe the dog can go anywhere --74.77.xx.xx |
service animals (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2024 9:23 PM Message:
If it is a furnished place and short term or mid term you should have something about no unregistered guests so he must leave. don't make it about the animal.
If they rented with 1 occupant, that is all they can have. --65.188.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by Marcia [WI]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2024 9:45 PM Message:
Bonanza--I like that idea. But then what about having guests over? A landlord really can't limit having people over, right? --104.231.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 6:18 AM Message:
I'd say they can have a guest but not overnight. do you have a ring camera or other outside means of verifying who's there?
I am assuming you have a no pet policy for your AirBnb (or whatever). Sometimes I think people just like to push boundaries and believe the world revolves around themselves.
To insure a smooth and comfortable stay for both you and your service animal, please provide answers to the following HUD / ADA questions:
1. Is your service animal a dog?
2. Is the animal required because of a disability?
3. What work or task has the dog been trained to perform?
In order to maintain a safe and respectful environment for all guests, please adhere to the following guidelines if you plan to bring a service animal onto the property:
1. Service animals are not permitted to be left alone in the home at any time. Your service animal must accompany you whenever you leave the property.
2. As the guest, you are fully responsible for any damages caused by your animal.
3. Service animals must remain under control at all times, whether through physical, verbal or sight commands.
4. Service animals are required to relieve themselves outdoors. You are required to clean up after your service animal and place waste in the outdoor green garbage bins at the end of the parking lot.
5. Service animals are not allowed on furniture, beds, or countertops.
6. It is unlawful to disguise an animal as a service animal or service animal in training. Violation of NCGS 168-4.5 is a Class 3 misdemeanor. Your stay will be canceled and additional charges will be added to your bill.
We are excited to host your stay. Please do not hesitate to reach out if you have any further questions or concerns.
--65.188.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 6:22 AM Message:
If it is a support animal the script gets tweaked a little
Support Animal:
To insure a smooth and comfortable stay for both you and your support animal, please provide the following documentation:
1. A written request for a support animal as a reasonable accommodation.
2. Evidence from your healthcare provider of a disability and that you have a disability-related need for an assistance animal.
In order to maintain a safe and respectful environment for all guests, please adhere to the following guidelines if you plan to bring a support animal onto the property:
1. Support animals are not permitted to be left alone in the home at any time. Your support animal must accompany you whenever you leave the property.
2. As the guest, you are fully responsible for any damages caused by your animal.
3. Support animals must remain under control at all times, whether through physical, verbal or sight commands.
4. Support animals are required to relieve themselves outdoors. You are required to clean up after your service animal and place waste in the outdoor green garbage bins at the end of the parking lot.
5. Support animals are not allowed on furniture, beds, or countertops.
6. It is unlawful to disguise an animal as a service animal or service animal in training. Violation of NCGS 168-4.5 is a Class 3 misdemeanor. Your stay will be canceled and additional charges will be added to your bill.
We are excited to host your stay. Please do not hesitate to reach out if you have any further questions or concerns.
--65.188.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 7:45 AM Message:
service animals (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 9:08 AM Message:
To answer your original question of "What are the rules for service dogs for visitors?"
Visiting Service Animals and ESAs are permitted. Tenants (whether or not they have any animals themselves) are allowed to have a guest with such an animal.
As others have said, make this about the guest, not the animal. Whatever your rules for guests are is what you should follow here.
As Bonanza has said, you can ask certain questions to confirm the animal qualifies (but tread carefully). And the animal must behave.
--107.181.xxx.x |
service animals (by mapleaf18 [NY]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 12:29 PM Message:
I've found that militantly pro-ESA tenants are now calling their support animals "service animals" because they feel there is less stigma with an animal for disabilities than for mental health. --64.246.xxx.xx |
service animals (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 1:54 PM Message:
If the dog is an actual service dog, he goes anywhere that the handicapped owner goes. Anywhere. Businesses, a friend's rental, the local school, the airlines, the courtroom..... The places where the service dog can not go are extremely limited. They can't go to a few designated areas of a hospital, although they can go to most areas of a hospital, and there are not many restrictions beyond that one.
Think in terms of "where can the paraplegic take his wheelchair and you have just about the same answer, except the service animal is not limited by stairs, so he can go to more places than the wheelchair can. The service animal is medical equipment. disabled persons can take their medical equipment to any place that they need it. --76.178.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by Marcia [WI]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 3:01 PM Message:
So it must be an emotional support dog bc this person (and I did meet him) is clearly not handicapped. He did 12 stairs, walked around just fine, etc. --104.231.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 3:02 PM Message:
I don't think the intent / purpose here is to deny someone their rights but to insure that the spirit of the laws are upheld.
A visitor has no rights to stay over night. The service animal/ support animal is immaterial.
the focus should be on this visitor. He has no rights to be on the property after quiet hours.
If the visitor is actually a guest, then they must be subjected to the same vetting process as all the other guests - background check, credit check or whatever your system is.
At this point, for me, if the guest comes via airbnb then I don't actually run a credit check on them. I am only allowing people with a history on airbnb. They would only be staying 7-28 days. If I get them via furnished finders, they are getting a shortened version of my long term rental application and credit, criminal, and eviction checks, and a shortened version of my lease to sign (30+ days).
Everyone is asked about animals. If they lie and bring one then their stay is terminated. If it is a service animal and they have not answered the above questions they have lied and obtained the premises under false information.
Now would I want to go to court over it? No but you can sure as heck bet that I will be on it like white on rice.
--65.188.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 3:04 PM Message:
So Marcia, is the ESA guest gone? --65.188.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 3:05 PM Message:
Was the dog friendly and obedient?
How long was the pet free premises? --65.188.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 3:09 PM Message:
Marcia, Marcia, Marcia.
Be careful about how you are evaluating others.
Many legit disabilities cannot be seen by you watching someone walk & climb stairs! --71.82.xxx.x |
service animals (by Just Tim [AR]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 3:16 PM Message:
"So it must be an emotional support dog bc this person (and I did meet him) is clearly not handicapped. He did 12 stairs, walked around just fine, etc."
This is not a true statement. Not all disabilities are visible. Dogs that are trained as seizure alert dogs or to alert for low blood sugar are service animals for a disabled person, even though you may think, based on your observation, that the person "is clearly not handicapped." --68.1.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 4:40 PM Message:
I agree with the others about not judging what type of animal it is (Service or ESA) based on what you've observed.
But my point is very different: IT DOES NOT MATTER.
Service Animals and ESAs have the same rights under the Fair Housing Act. So it doesn't matter AT ALL which type this is. Both are allowed entry with guests. So, it really doesn't matter which of the two it is here.
As has been said: follow your GUEST guidelines. Forget the animal. It shouldn't be the main point. --107.181.xxx.x |
service animals (by Marcia [WI]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 4:58 PM Message:
Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. I know a lot of people have said disregard the animal and focus on the guest. However, I do not allow dogs==period. And, even if I do focus on the guest, these tenants just moved in and did not disclose that there would be an overnight guest or a dog. They already have 2 cats, and I do not want a nice apartment to be like a zoo. A couple years ago, I had another travel nurse come in and her company was finding her housing. I was told that she had one dog. Okay. I allowed that. When I went down to the apartment the next morning to do some outside maintenance, I heard multiple animals barking. Called the company back immediately and found out that she had 2 or 3 dogs plus a couple of birds. Needless to say, I told them her lease was terminated immediateely and she found somewhere else to move to.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I do not allow more than 2 animals and they already have 2 cats. --104.231.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 5:17 PM Message:
This is what we're trying to get you to realize: You have a NO PET policy. You can't have a NO DOG policy as that would violate federal law.
We're trying to keep you from violating federal law by telling you to focus on the guest and not the animal.
You DO allow dogs. You better allow dogs as legally required by federal law.
If your lease does not allow overnight guests, then you have an argument here. If your lease does allow overnight guests, then you don't unless something else goes wrong (i.e. the animal causes damage, makes noise to bother others, and so on). Only THEN can you focus on the animal.
Again, this is a GUEST that is visiting. It isn't turning the place into a Zoo unless they are staying too long -- which is a GUEST problem, not a DOG problem.
So, the point YOU may be trying to make is that you "do not allow more than 2 animals and they already have 2." The point WE are trying to make is that if you enforce that for an actual Service or ESA animal, then you are breaking the law. Don't do that.
--107.181.xxx.x |
service animals (by ken [NY]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 6:16 PM Message:
Pretend it is not a dog but a piece of medical equipment.Regardless I am questioning John, i dont think anyone has to allow a guest to show up with a service animal or emotional support animal. what makes you say you do? if you are correct this is just getting more and more rediculous --74.77.xx.xx |
service animals (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Jun 24, 2024 10:12 PM Message:
This came up a month or so ago and I linked to the HUD guidance making it clear that guests were allowed to have them.
Just like you just said -- pretend it is a piece of medical equipment. Now try to ban a guest from having a wheelchair because you don't like how the wheels ride on your carpet. Or try to ban a guest from injecting insulin because you don't like syringes on your property.
A Service Animal is the same thing. You don't get to ban a piece of medical equipment that a disabled person needs.
If you allow tenant to have guests, then you have to allow guests that are disabled with their equipment -- even if that equipment is a dog.
--75.128.xxx.xxx |
service animals (by Still Learning [NH]) Posted on: Jun 25, 2024 7:32 AM Message:
John (MI) - I understand guests and service animals. What is your opinion about a guest with an emotional support animal? If they can go to a restaurant and store and they are not allowed then shouldn’t they be able to visit my property as a guest without it? --73.159.xxx.xx |
service animals (by MC [PA]) Posted on: Jun 25, 2024 7:38 AM Message:
Maybe I am wrong but I think the poster just didn't want people bringing other animals on the property. So many hide behind the ESA or misuse service animal. All animals are ESAs. Because the world has to tread carefully, most just say "service" or whatever the buzz phrase of the week is. Some are legit but I would say the majority are not. I am with above,and I have been blasted on it before, animal goes where you go.
--73.230.xxx.xx |
service animals (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jun 25, 2024 8:37 AM Message:
Govt Law trumps No Pet policy. Don't fight this. You will lose. Let the dog stay and say nothing.
Pet policy doesn't matter.
What your insurance agent says doesn't matter.
The type of dog doesn't matter.
It's. A. Service. Animal. Period. Done. Nothing else matters (as Metallica sang).
Now, there is one... count it ... ONE caveat to this: If the animal acts threatening towards other people and/or causes DAMAGE to the property, you can deny based on that alone. It has to be THAT animal: not the breed tendency (i.e. pit bulls). It can't be a statistic you read. It can't be what other people say. It can't be that you are uncomfy around dogs.
The problem has to be OBSERVED with THAT SPECIFIC animal.
Thing is...service animals are well-trained NOT to threated other people and/or cause any damages to property. So if the dog is a legit service animal, you will never observe these behaviors. Unless someone does something stupid like tease the dog mercilessly, causing it to react. But that is on the person, not the dog, and would not be an excuse to deny and would probably get that person in a heap of trouble.
As someone wisely said above: a service animal is basically a piece of medical equipment. It just happens to have 4 legs and eat. You cannot deny legitimate use of medical equipment. It's illegal. It costs a pile of money for folks who mess with this law.
The dog is gone today, right? Done. No worries. If you see it again, smile and wave at the tenant and guest.
--184.4.xx.xx |
service animals (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2024 2:34 PM Message:
Still Learning: My opinion? My OPINION is that ESAs shouldn't be allowed as guests -- because they are so often faked.
But my opinion has little to do with the LAW. The LAW states that they are allowed -- because the FHAA doesn't treat SAs and ESAs differently.
Note that things are very different outside of housing. Home Depot has to allow SAs, but are free to ban ESAs in their stores. Very different law for them.
--107.181.xxx.x |
service animals (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Jun 28, 2024 9:43 AM Message:
Bit off topic but Lowes allows anyone to bring their dogs in.
It isn't Petsmart. I don't want to have to walk around a dog on a leash to get to the stuff I need. I don't want to see dogs in carts drooling and shedding all over the place.
--107.147.xx.xx |
service animals (by ken [NY]) Posted on: Jun 28, 2024 4:24 PM Message:
zero- i kind of get petsmart allowing it because it is a petstore and lots of people like my wife like going there and seeing different dogs every time and they do have training classes there so folks do have to get the dogs to the back of the store for that.I dont understand being forced to allow a guests dog,they arent even the ones staying there to begin with.My wife took our golden retriever in petsmart once,i said no i will stay in the car i dont think you should take her in,she took a crap on the floor and employees acted like it happens everyday. --74.77.xx.xx |
service animals (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Jun 28, 2024 7:10 PM Message:
I get Petsmart allowing them. I do not get Lowes doing so. Not talking about service or even esa just people and their mutts.
I wonder how many fights break out with pets in Petsmart? Oh my dog is an angel... why did he do that? Oops. Ever try to break up a couple dogs fighting? Don't do it. Chances are you will get tagged by both of them.
As for the guest dog being an ESA I will not go on the record but I will be closely watching for lease violations and considering non-renewal of my MTM rents.
So many take advantage of it and ruin it for everyone else. I have family that does it. Got ESA paperwork so they could take their new mutt to the campgrounds that said no dogs. Same people had the handicap tag for the mirror that was from a dead relative. They still used it.
People suck and sometimes family is even worse. --107.147.xx.xx |
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