I have a young female tenant who is on section 8 and has two very small children 6 mos and 3 yrs old. I was agreeable to provide utilities with the added stipend from section 8. Her water bill is “off the charts” at 3,600 gallons this mo. She denies others using the supplies WD and denies anyone else in the home. However, there is evidence to support that her boyfriend/father of children live with her. I have, too, witnessed mother/teen sisters in the home and laundry baskets sitting around. Lastly, now that it’s summer, she has a soft side, inflatable baby pool that is obviously dumped and refilled.

According to section 8, I am stuck with this for another 8 mos. They “do not have the manpower” to investigate if someone is in the home, and said it’s my responsibility to adhere to continue to pay for water.

Does anyone see any recourse?

Pool is a liability. Send notice. Possibly get her for lease infractions

If at all possible, in the future,don't include utilities. They tend to get abused.

You just consider it a learning experience and the cost is 8 months more for the water bill.

You did agree to pay for the water. And the result is is very normal for section 8 people. They are a entitled lot and most will take advantage of anything.

If they know they dont pay for water. They will over use it no matter how many people go by there.

Then you where also wrong not putting limits on what you will pay for water in the Lease.

I had a 15 unit building w 15 studios with all single adult occupants. Usage was very close to 15,000 gallons/month.

No dishwashers, laundry. pools, outside hose hookup. Hope this helps you to gauge.

As suggested by MC, I don't think section 8 can stop you for not allowing a pool. My insurance agent called them "attractive nuisances".

Double check your numbers: 3,600 gallons is NOTHING. Utility usage website everywhere say that "3,000 per person per month is normal."

My own house of 5 uses 8,000... we're pretty frugal, but for a family of 3 that 3,600 is very reasonable. Are you sure you didn't mean 36,000 (extra zero)?

Don't expect Sec 8 to policy your property: that's your job as the landlord. A good lease will address this. Mine says, "If landlord has reason to believe that one or more persons are violating the Guest policy, tenant must provide proof of alternate permanent resident for all persons suspected of violating the policy within 48 hours of landlord's demand. Proof includes, but is not limited to a signed lease with contact information for other persons' landlord(s), a utility bill from the current or most recent month in persons' name, or a bank statement mailed to alternate address with persons' names."

I don't police it unless I see a problem. I'd never provide utilities unless I had to, such as with master meters, but even on those houses I'd submeter it so I can track usage. I did that on one duplex. Cost was $300 for two professionally installed submeters. Haven't had a large water bill since, and every month I bill tenants for usage in addition to rent.

Definitely make them lose the pool. My lease forbids them as well as trampolines, etc.

I still have ten units that I pay water for. One of my goals for 2024 was to get those duplexes metered individually. I have not done that and do not see it happening quickly.

My bills range from smaller than should be to way out there. I stopped people from allowing family over for laundry day years ago. No outside spigots. As mentioned no pools.

S8 will not do anything about extra people in my area because they just want the fed money. Another reason I stopped taking any S8.

You need to read the "Section 8 Bible" by Mclean & Cipriano

They take out washer dryer connections, no ceiling fans, no outside spigots to wash cars, etc. They had one doing laundry on the side. I would never leave any utility in my name. Period.

Section 8 and plus one (by DJ [VA]) Jun 21, 2024 10:57 PM

Message:

If Landlord has reason to believe that there is an unauthorized occupant, the burden will be on Tenant to produce proof of this occupant's residency elsewhere. --71.82.xxx.x

I gave a 24 hr notice yesterday to enter for an inspection and to discuss my removal of WD or she pay an extra $75 mo for usage. We had this discussion last mo, as the water bill has been high only since she moved in Mar 1. WD is not in lease as being provided.

She spoke with her caseworker and was informed she is not breaking her lease agreement by having a high water bill and advised she not pay $75 for usage. I then told her “you are breaking lease by having your plus one.” She states she is allowed to have guests and baby daddy helps w kids and cares for them while she attends school. She states he doesn’t live there.

This is when I gave the 24 hr notice to inspect and discuss removal of WD or pay to rent it (small stack.)

I then sent my handyman to inspect for leaks just this morning (she/I due to meet at 5:15pm). My handyman said no leaks and no sign of plus one. I didn’t show oe or call to cancel for our 515pm meet. “I worked late” and needed to reschedule for next week. She tried to convince me to come anyway this eve, I declined. I’m certain plus one was inconvenienced! I’ll do an impromptu on Monday. See what she says. I feel funny looking in closet, but I will. Also, I plan to do a lot of inspections, with 24 hr notice- is that ok?? And is it ok to ck closets?

For those who commented: The toilet is new. I will def get a lease addendum for no baby pool (my daughter said she ditched a baby pool due to higher water bills.) section 8 doesn’t care and only wants to keep numbers. And I also agree w comment that as landlords we have the right to know who’s in our houses! What kind of man hides behind a woman w a section 8 voucher? So LOW!

I reviewed lease and she is permitted 15 overnights of a single person every six months. I don’t see this as enforceable unless I want to stake out the house every morning and eve.

Someone said the burden of proof is on tenant that she doesn’t have a plus one. Section 8 director informed me that I would have to prove during eviction. How would I prove he’s there? This seems impossible really.

I guess the thing that frustrates me the most… FREE rent and utilities isn’t enough? I mean, just WOW!!

I hate to hurry time, but come on MARCH!

What was the difference in the dollar amount of the water bill before she moved there compared to now? I’m not trying to sound negative but if it’s $50-$100, I wouldn’t be stressing out about it. Take it as a learning lesson (lord knows I’ve had plenty of those in my journey) and come March just don’t renew her lease.

I am licensed plumbing contractor and landlord. I had a section 8 start a laundry service using an illegal washer an dryer in her apartment, even though I have a large laundry room with 2 washers and 2 dryers, and an outside cloths line to air dry stuff -- 4 cables 60 feet each.

Used to be that you could tell them a violation would get their voucher pulled.

Plenty: I appreciate your point of view. I understand the population as I work w the underprivileged and link to services everyday. I do not condone those who scam the system, however. I know many underprivileged who work hard and pay their way, who chose to work towards bettering their situation wo cheating the stem and expecting others to turn a blind eye. Rules and laws are for a reason. Not as a way to figure out how to bend and get around them.

If plus one is in the home, they shouldn’t be getting free rent and utilities.

Jason: it’s illegal to ck a mailbox.

Robin: I’ve already told her she is out come lease renewal and I hope she finds somewhere else and wants to move before then. And I agree, even sly folks use to fear losing their voucher, but they now know there’s no negative repercussions. They just have to put on an act till received.

I am gonna go over there one evening this eeek to talk. I agree with someone who mentioned, just pull the WD. So I will coordinate this with someone to remove.

Plenty: I appreciate your point of view. I understand the population as I work w the underprivileged and link to services everyday. I do not condone those who scam the system, however. I know many underprivileged who work hard and pay their way, who chose to work towards bettering their situation wo cheating the stem and expecting others to turn a blind eye. Rules and laws are for a reason. Not as a way to figure out how to bend and get around them.

If plus one is in the home, they shouldn’t be getting free rent and utilities.

Jason: it’s illegal to ck a mailbox.

Robin: I’ve already told her she is out come lease renewal and I hope she finds somewhere else and wants to move before then. And I agree, even sly folks use to fear losing their voucher, but they now know there’s no negative repercussions. They just have to put on an act till received.

I am gonna go over there one evening this eeek to talk. I agree with someone who mentioned, just pull the WD. So I will coordinate this with someone to remove.

The following, per another responder, was sent to ALL tenants: Lease addendum

PLEASE READ: 1. No inside furniture to be left on outside of house. 2. City imposed fines due to trash or weeds are the responsibility of tenant to rectify immediately! This is a lease violation. 3. Pest control is the responsibility of the tenant after 10 days of move in. Before this time, landlord will cover pest issues that have been identified and reported within the 10 days. 4. Rent is due on the first and 10% late fee will be imposed. Once late, a 10 day notice to pay or vacate will be sent via email. 5. Security of property is tenant’s responsibility. Security cameras are recommended for your safety but not provided by landlord. 6. Work hours respected by tenant and landlord of M-F 7am-530 pm unless it’s an emergency. 7. Please correspond via turbotenant for property issues or concerns. 8. A walk through/home visit will be made each May and November. 9. Maintenance requests that are not deemed valid will be billed to tenant. Ie, service call for furnace and no issues. 10. Tenant is responsible for reading emails and messages via turbotenant. 11. Renters insurance is required. Please remit info regarding policy in turbotenant. 12. No one not on the lease is permitted to make permanent residence (more than a week or receiving mail) without prior written consent of landlord. 13. No keys are to be duplicated or given to anyone not on the lease. 14. “Lock outs” will be charged $40 if landlord must make a visit. If landlord is not available, tenant is responsible for contacting a locksmith. 15. Animal overnights or “sitting” is strictly forbidden. This would be an immediate lease violation.

16. It is completely IMPERMISSIBLE to erect or install a trampoline, swimming pool (including wadding or baby pool), athletic equipment, recreational equipment, or permit any items or activities which can cause interference with or affect the insurance of the premises. If you have doubt about adding something, ask first. Property insurance specifies clearly, these items are forbidden, therefore, not covered under the event of an emergency as well as subject to cancellation. 17. You have 30 days to obtain renters insurance to cover your possession and coverage for accident or injury on property by self, or guests. Proof of insurance coverage must be provided and can be uploaded via turbotenant. If proof of coverage is not provided, this is a violation of the lease.

Additionally, she paid $50 on the account. Within asking. Does this demonstrate admission of abuse of water, I don’t know. But she’s clearly getting the message.

That is a big addendum. But I like a lot of it. Some of which I do not have in my lease.

1. I just always considered this the same as trash outside, but the wording removes any doubt.

2. My lease states this already, and it is a good thing to have. I almost got dinged by the yard in a place last year.

3. I only give them 48 hours. If you don't see the problem by then you probably brought it in yourself. I inspect all my places for pests at turnover and state that as well.

4. My rent dates are all over the month. But late is late. One day and you are late. No exceptions any longer.

5. My lease states damages to personal property are not my issue. Adding that they should get a system or at least a camera is a nice touch although it could make applicants fear they are moving into a bad neighborhood.

6. I need to add this to my lease. I got a text about a fridge swap at around 5pm on a Sunday this last week.

7. I am using Innago but I do not have the maintenance part set up. Not sure if I will as I am still feeling it out. Good addition.

8. I do not have set times for walk thru's. Maybe I should tho. At least they will clean up twice a year when they know I am coming.

9. I love this and will be adding it to my lease. It doesn't happen often, but I get a lot of silly calls/texts regarding issues that are not issues.

10. Again I have this available with Innago but do not utilize it. I like the idea of telling them that emails are important and will push forward with that.

11. At present I do not force tenants to have renters insurance. Used to if they had big dogs but found out that shouldn't be the only reason. Tenant today said that she just paid for the insurance as it was ready to lapse. They are struggling. I need to decide how firm I should be with this.

12. I think I changed mine to 3 days in a row. I also stated that if management thought it was an issue we would move towards making proof of residency. Prior consent involves a new application for said person.

13. I just have regular kwikset locks so this is nearly impossible for me to enforce. Once I finally get thru all the spare locks I have I plan to go to Landlord Locks which will help to keep that from happening. Right now since I swap locks when there is a turnover it doesn't matter that much. If they say they gave a key out then I charge a rekey fee.

14. I started telling people that it was a $25 charge for me to show up if available. Running deadbolts and passage locks will solve this. I still have a few places with locksets only.

15. Added no pet sitting or visitors a while back. Was getting people with pets saying they were only watching them for a week. Nope, not any more.

16. I do not allow those either, although your list is more detailed and I do not give them the option to ask me.

17. Covered in Section 11

Her paying more but not saying why is odd. I do have one tenant that pays extra when he is a day late. It is above the 10%. I have told him before about it but that's the way he does it so okay by me.

Pretty extensive list you have there. I will be tweaking my leases with some of it.