So...nurse rents one of our townhouses. She is there a couple of years, no problems. Gets a boyfriend, a local business owner with a dog. Asks if he can have his dog when he visits and we agree after he fills out the petscreening stuff. Then she asks to add him to lease and we agree, after he fills out a full application (he does.) Next lease is both of them on it.

He signs it. She never does. Somehow we never noticed that (don't ask, I don't know.) One month they are late due to system glitches (for real) and a few texts go back and forth - in one, she says, "Are you sending me the deposit?"

I respond asking what deposit and why - but never hear from her again, really. Months go buy, rent is paid, inspections are made, repairs are done, life is going on...suddenly realized she never signed the lease. Try to contact her many times with no response, and he says she never responds to him anymore either (first they said she was traveling. As a nurse it made sense.)

So now he is in there, signed lease, paying rent, no issues...but she is gone.

WMH,

No Tim I wouldn't. NC law says she has six months to provide a forwarding address or we can just keep the deposit. So if he stays the full year, she gives up her right to the deposit about half-way through. In fact she only has until July 1st to claim it even if she had followed all the steps to get it back (notice, move-out, inspection, etc.)

Sly devils.

Would you rent to her again?

Good question, 6x6. Answer is NO. Life is too short for that nonsense. Take two seconds and answer me - what can I do, kick her out? She's already gone.

WMH,

It seems that you are still obligated to return the tenant's security deposit, even after six months. The NC Tenant Security Deposit Act is not the only law that applies. According to the NC Real Estate Commission, the Unclaimed Property Act also applies. It has very specific procedures for turning unclaimed property over to the state. Security deposits are specifically mentioned in the act. The penalty is steep for failure to comply. Other states have similar laws, with increasing visibility, as per the news reports on TV reuniting joyous people with long lost money. More information can be found at bulletins.ncrec.gov/unclaimed-property-nc-law-requires-annual-records-review-and-reporting/

This is just one more headache with respect to security deposits. This leads into my interest in hearing people's take on Brad's presentation regarding his rent lock fee. I have heard of landlord using a rent lock fee in lieu of taking a security deposit to avoid the associated pitfalls. But those landlords were also MTM. Someone else used a front-loaded rent method by setting their first month's rent to double the subsequent months' rent. Others did some variation of capturing more money up front, but supplemented it with requiring the tenant to maintain a security deposit bond throughout the tenancy. (SayRhino, SureDeposit, the Guarantors). I couldn't make the convention this year, but that would be interesting to hear others say after hearing the details of Brad's approach. That would be a new thread.

WMH,

It seems like the the home is being cared for responsibly, other than you having this aha moment.

Looking at this from the other side (pretending I'm 6x6)

- if months go by and she has apparently moved, why do you assume she still has the same phone number?

- even if she had the same phone number, why do you assume you are still in her contacts (e.g. lost phone and could not port contacts, regularly cleans out old contacts). Do you specifically identify yourself when you text or leave a VM and state the purpose of the call/text? So many people don't do that nowadays.

- If you are a landlord who blocks numbers of past tenants, why would you assume that you yourself are not blocked, even if accidentally.

- Did you gather alternate contact information during the application and tenancy? (email, work phone, emergency contacts, Facebook messenger, a co-worker that you could get a message to for non-collections matters, e.g. "I have money that may belong to so-and-so. Can you ask them to contact me?) This may take less energy than what you are feeling towards her now.

- if he says she isn't responding to him anymore but is living in the home, has anyone (including him) bothered to check that she is still alive and breathing (and not buried in Long Island or being held captive in a backyard shed or been kidnapped by a cartel or other Lifetime movie plot)?

- Your lease needs updating to spell out how the security deposit will be handled when someone is added to the lease.

Sir James, I've never had a tenant just disappear and leave their deposit, fwiw. So never had anything to turn over to the state. Any tenant who left in the night way back in the day owed well more than their deposit!

And she has not told me she's out - last contact was about the glitch in paying rent and she said her BF would be taking care of it as she was out of town on a travel nurse contract - no mention of having moved out.

Oh and as to blocking contacts: no way. I keep all old tenants categorized in my contact list: a YES list (I would rent again) and NO list (never in a million years) but I don't ever block them.

The facts as I understand them:

1) You still have an active lease with a tenant, because the new lease that would have replaced it was never signed. No one -- not you, not her -- have been released from anything.

2) Rent is being paid by someone. Her or the boyfriend. Don't know...don't care.

3) There are no violations of the lease, other than possibly boyfriend not officially being on the lease and thus the Guest policy might kick in. Silence from her is not a violation. We've talked about it here before: communication is good, but it's not a Constitutionally guaranteed right. Once the lease is signed, neither party is obligated to communicate with the other ever again, forever, until eternity passes. All you're both obligated to do is follow the lease until it expires. That requires zero communication. If she moves out on the last day and never violates the lease, she has fully complied with all terms and conditions.

4) Boyfriend is still living there.

Conclusion: you still have her on the lease and rent is paid. Wait until payment stops, then evict. Yes, I know she's gone. So what? She is not obliged to live there. She is only obliged to pay for the right to live there. Eviction isn't just the process of kicking someone out. It's the process of legally terminating the contract so you can move on. I know tenants play fast and loose with this all the time, thinking if they just move out it's all over. Nope. We have to stick to the lease and the law.

Final thought: I would do nothing and keep cashing in on the rent. No deposit refunds. There is still an active lease in place and possession hasn't been returned.

Sid, HE signed the lease electronically via Docusign. It then went to her where it stopped. WE never noticed because Buildium shows it as renewed once the lease is sent. Had we sent it to her first instead of him, we might have noticed sooner? Because it would have shown up as not signed at all? Not sure. I have addressed this with Buildium for just this reason. No good answer yet. It's been entered as an enhancement that a lease not show up as RENEWED until all parties are signed and the lease is fully executed. Seems like a DUH! feature, but apparently not.

As to Communication, it IS required by my lease and not responding to direct requests from the Landlord is considered a non-monetary breach of lease. Would a judge uphold that? Who knows?

But anyway, he's on the lease, the dog is on the lease, the lease is half-signed (if anything, HE is at risk because *I* never signed it either) and he is paying the increase rent, and fully paid the increased deposit.

She gone.

I'm not a lawyer but this is what the law says:

§ 4252. Landlord's obligations.

Upon termination of the tenancy, money held by the landlord as security may be applied as permitted in G.S. 4251 or, if not so applied, shall be refunded to the tenant. In either case the landlord in writing shall itemize any damage and mail or deliver same to the tenant, together with the balance of the security deposit, no later than 30 days after termination of the tenancy and delivery of possession of the premises to the landlord. If the extent of the landlord's claim against the security deposit cannot be determined within 30 days, the landlord shall provide the tenant with an interim accounting no later than 30 days after termination of the tenancy and delivery of possession of the premises to the landlord and shall provide a final accounting within 60 days after termination of the tenancy and delivery of possession of the premises to the landlord. If the tenant's address is unknown the landlord shall apply the deposit as permitted in G.S. 4251 after a period of 30 days and the landlord shall hold the balance of the deposit for collection by the tenant for at least six months. The landlord may not withhold as damages part of the security deposit for conditions that are due to normal wear and tear nor may the landlord retain an amount from the security deposit which exceeds his actual damages. (1977, c. 914, s.

1; 2009279, s. 5.)

I, too, am not a lawyer.

I attempted to link the article named above: ht tps: //bulletins.ncrec.gov/unclaimed-property-nc-law-requires-annual-records-review-and-reporting/.

The article is by a lawyer. The Unclaimed Property Act (Chapter 116B, Article 4 of the North Carolina General Statutes) also applies. It explicitly defines both security deposits and refunds as property for the definition of this law. The law is too long to copy here. The dormancy period before you are required to report an unclaimed security deposit or refund seems to be longer than the 6 months identified in the Landlord Tenant Act. You have to report unclaimed funds annually after the dormancy period. The dormancy period may be as long as 5 years. The funds must be held in your trust account until returned to the person owed or turned over to the state.

Interestingly, the web page ht tps:// unclaimed.org/what-is-unclaimed-property/ has an example of an apartment security deposit in Tennessee as being unclaimed property. Scroll halfway down. The website is run by an organization of state government administrators from all 50 states.

Many/most/all states seem to have similar laws, based upon this association's membership. A small landlord is less likely to have an unclaimed SD than a larger firm, but you should be aware just in case.

Fellow Tarheel,

Short and to the point if you have any security deposits to return:

1. You don't own it and, by law, never will.

2. You have to return it, always.

3. See post above for how to legally return it, always.

W,

My state requires we provide written accounting if a deposit is transferred such as when selling an occupied property. The res must be notified by certified mail as to who now holds their deposit.

AND in basic law, the first person to document an action usually holds the upper hand.

SO I would send her and him at last known address, written notice that her deposit has been transferred to her BF as the remaining occupant.

Maybe that helps.