Them, the dogs, or both?
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Them, the dogs, or both? (by Anne [CA]) Jun 1, 2024 8:20 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by NE [PA]) Jun 1, 2024 8:23 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by 6x6 [TN]) Jun 1, 2024 8:39 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by Anne [CA]) Jun 1, 2024 8:51 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by Just Tim [AR]) Jun 1, 2024 9:41 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by RB [TN]) Jun 1, 2024 9:54 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by Jim [CA]) Jun 1, 2024 10:21 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by Renne [TX]) Jun 1, 2024 10:28 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by Oreo [WI]) Jun 1, 2024 10:48 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by Still Learning [NH]) Jun 2, 2024 6:38 AM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by plenty [MO]) Jun 2, 2024 7:57 AM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by ken [NY]) Jun 2, 2024 8:56 AM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by mapleaf18 [NY]) Jun 2, 2024 9:10 AM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by Phil [OR]) Jun 2, 2024 9:17 AM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by MikeA [TX]) Jun 2, 2024 9:34 AM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by 6x6 [TN]) Jun 2, 2024 10:07 AM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by zero [IN]) Jun 2, 2024 11:19 AM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by NE [PA]) Jun 2, 2024 11:30 AM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by Robin [WI]) Jun 2, 2024 4:18 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by Anne [CA]) Jun 2, 2024 5:53 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by tim [CA]) Jun 2, 2024 6:24 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by WMH [NC]) Jun 2, 2024 6:30 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by ken [NY]) Jun 2, 2024 6:46 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by Anne [CA]) Jun 2, 2024 7:18 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jun 2, 2024 8:55 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by Anne [CA]) Jun 2, 2024 10:38 PM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by Rick [IN]) Jun 3, 2024 6:51 AM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jun 3, 2024 7:28 AM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jun 4, 2024 12:45 AM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by plenty [MO]) Jun 4, 2024 8:42 AM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Jun 4, 2024 10:43 AM
       Them, the dogs, or both? (by Anne [CA]) Jun 5, 2024 12:42 AM

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Them, the dogs, or both? (by Anne [CA]) Posted on: Jun 1, 2024 8:20 PM
Message:

Hi all- I infrequently post here for help with my duplex in Long Beach. I've had a run of good tenants the past 10 years (owned for 21). Am now renting to the sister of a former fantastic (no sarcasm) tenant, and there have been multiple problems over the last 2 years. But the latest issue may be the final one.

The tenant moved in with a dog and then snuck in another one. I let them keep it and reminded them of the rules for having pets in the unit, including not bothering anyone else with their behavior and keeping the yard clean of poop.

I get a letter today from the next door neighbor's attorney. The tenant's dog attacked their dog and the neighbor got hurt hitting the tenant's dog with his cane. The neighbors say the tenants do nothing to control their dogs. The tenant's dogs have pooped in our and their yards.

This is a lawsuit waiting to happen, and I am counting my blessings right now. I am furious with the tenant's terrible behavior and mismanagement of their pets. I have zero tolerance for this.

My question: do I let the tenants stay, provided they rehome the dogs ASAP? Because as of today they have forfeited their privilege to own a dog on my property. Or, do I just terminate the lease before more problems happen? FWIW they are up to date on all rent.

Thanks in advance for feedback and advice!

--172.117.xxx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Jun 1, 2024 8:23 PM
Message:

Is there any police report to back up the attorney letter? --24.152.xxx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jun 1, 2024 8:39 PM
Message:

Sounds like you do not live where the property is. How will you know if they get rid of the dogs?

How would you enforce this?

It is highly unlikely that they would get rid of the dogs.

NE has a good question. That might make a difference, however, the fact that this tenant already, without prior approval, brought in another dog, thus showing how cooperative they are not. Seems the tenant is as misbehaving as the dog. --76.129.xxx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by Anne [CA]) Posted on: Jun 1, 2024 8:51 PM
Message:

No police report but the attorney letter claims video footage of the dog-on-dog attack.

The attorney who wrote the letter owns the property(and others)- I forgot to mention in original post. The tenant dogs were acting up back in the fall and the attorney called me to report this. I told the tenant about the call, warned them that this was a violation of the lease, and told them to control the dogs. And now this latest incident.

I live in Costa Mesa, about a half hour away. If I go the route of letting them stay but with no dogs, then I would ask the attorney/owner to notify me if their tenants see any sign of a dog on the premises. I can also ask the back unit tenants to let me know of any activity. I'd also let the tenants know that I would be visiting the property to confirm no dogs in their unit. I could do this from sidewalk, or side yard, so no need to enter premises.

My hesitance in terminating the lease is the fact that they have two kids in the local elem. school. I didn't want to disrupt their lives over something as fixable as a badly-behaved dog.

Thanks for the responses! --172.117.xxx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by Just Tim [AR]) Posted on: Jun 1, 2024 9:41 PM
Message:

This is a problem with the tenants. The dogs are just behaving as they are allowed. --68.1.xxx.xxx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by RB [TN]) Posted on: Jun 1, 2024 9:54 PM
Message:

Get rid of all of them, ET-AL. ASAP. --69.130.xxx.xxx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by Jim [CA]) Posted on: Jun 1, 2024 10:21 PM
Message:

If it were me, I would give them notice to move, which is probably 60 days. Hopefully they won’t play the service animal or emotional support animal card, but I would still remove them.

With a letter from a lawyer as justification, I would still proceed to boot them --146.70.xxx.xxx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by Renne [TX]) Posted on: Jun 1, 2024 10:28 PM
Message:

**My hesitance in terminating the lease is the fact that they have two kids in the local elem. school. I didn't want to disrupt their lives over something as fixable as a badly-behaved dog.**

Anne, please change this thought. You are not disrupting their lives, the parents are disrupting their lives.

As an outsider with zero emotion invested in this, I see this as badly - behaved people and they are not so fixable.

Great quote- it is easier to change people (get new people) than change people (make their behavior come in line).

I would get these tenants out of there asap. They have proven that they are not honorable people and what happens when this dog attacks the elderly man instead of the dog?

This is a lawsuit waiting to happen especially since you now have knowledge that this is a dangerous dog. --12.196.xxx.xxx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by Oreo [WI]) Posted on: Jun 1, 2024 10:48 PM
Message:

Whether they play the ESA or service animal card, it's too late; the dogs proved they are dangerous. With a letter fromm an attorney, you need to act.

You mentioned that they are up to date on their rent. Curious, when was the last time you did an inspection of their unit? If they don't care about the outside of your place, what does the inside look like? --75.11.xx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by Still Learning [NH]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 6:38 AM
Message:

If the lawyer owns the property next door and others, can you call them and ask for their help to get rid of the tenant? --73.159.xxx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 7:57 AM
Message:

So you want to ask them to get rid of the dogs or move? They are not getting rid of the dogs and the are not moving unless you give them notice. I would not delay in give them notice. I would not ask for their side of the story. I would not call the related good previous resident for assistance. I would not ask my current residents for their side of the story. I would not get sturn with words. I would not try and make this "fair". I would just end the agreement with no explanation if they are month to month. I'd maybe ask that lawyer for free help in doing so ... What do they want? And see if you can do that. Would a bigger fence help? --172.59.xxx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by ken [NY]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 8:56 AM
Message:

they created the problem they suffer the consequences including the kids getting moved from the school. dont make there problem your problem --74.77.xx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by mapleaf18 [NY]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 9:10 AM
Message:

Boot 'em and bear in mind that tenants have become EXTREMELY entitled over the last 3.5 years. I often see evidence of applicants wanting to tell me how to run my business, which of course, is not happening. --64.246.xxx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by Phil [OR]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 9:17 AM
Message:

GONE --76.138.xxx.xxx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 9:34 AM
Message:

If you don't get rid of them you could be culpable if it happens again, that will result it a lawsuit that you will likely lose. Issue the lease violation/cure quit notice (removing the dogs) so you can formally document that you are taking action in case you need it for court in the future. --71.42.xx.xxx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 10:07 AM
Message:

"Great quote- it is easier to change people (get new people) than change people (make their behavior come in line)."

I love it.

And, the man will end up getting bitten if he keeps hitting the dog with the cane. The dog will defend itself. --76.129.xxx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 11:19 AM
Message:

I tell all my pet owners that I have zero tolerance policy for animals that attack.

Now that you have been informed of the animals' behavior it is your responsibility to cure that problem.

Most people will not just get rid of their animals, especially if they have had them for any length of time.

Start whatever process you need to in order to remove them as fast as you can. --107.147.xx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 11:30 AM
Message:

Just out of curiosity, what are the breeds? --174.249.xx.xxx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 4:18 PM
Message:

You have gotten some fantastic advice here. I agree with all of it. The tenants have to go.

I see that you live in CA. I understand that it can be very, very difficult to get rid of a bad tenant in CA. The kind of lease you have is key. You can't just "terminate their lease" without going through the legal process, and since you're in CA this will probably involve paying a lawyer.

My state has fairly rational LL-tenant laws. Here, I can terminate a MTM lease with 30 days notice, no reason needed. If it's a year lease, you're stuck with them until their lease expires, UNLESS you can clearly prove that they are violating their lease.

In my state, I would need to provide a 30-day notice to cure the lease violation--in this case, getting rid of the dogs. If they don't comply, then you can file for eviction. However, judges everywhere are notoriously tenant-friendly, so make sure you build a rock-solid case just in case they dig in. Take pictures of the dog poop in the neighbor's yard. Get a copy of the police report and video footage. Document, document, document.

Be aware that the process is VERY state-specific, so again--pay for a lawyer. Whatever you do, DON'T sit on your hands. You've been notified of a liability, so you can be held responsible for it. Especially since the owner is a lawyer (!!). --104.230.xxx.xxx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by Anne [CA]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 5:53 PM
Message:

As usual, Mr Landlord LLs come through with great advice.

In 21 years of LLing, this is just the second problem tenant I've had.

The dogs are American Bully mixes. And obviously my tenants can't control them. I typically screen/meet all potential pets in the unit, but they brought in the second one without my knowledge. When I let them keep it, and sent out the new pet docs, they listed it as a bully. I should have made them get rid of both dogs right then, given their deviousness.

I dodged a huge bullet this time, and am embarrassed at my tenant's terrible behavior. It's time to evict them. They have been given multiple chances to be good neighbors, and they just suck.

Thank you all so much for the advice. I work at Home Depot as a Pro cashier, and when I meet other LLs, I always tell them about this site and forum. It's been a lifeline all these years!

--172.117.xxx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by tim [CA]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 6:24 PM
Message:

I can't understand why you would even consider retaining these tenants. They lied to you, and don't care about their neighbor, or your property. They'll lie to you again. Do you want to become a babysitter or a real estate investor?

I would ask the attorney if they would give you a copy of the video to help back up your reasons for eviction. --73.2.xx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 6:30 PM
Message:

Now that you have been put on notice about the dogs, if they attack again your insurance company WILL NOT help you. I don't care if you have a bazillion dollar policy.

You MUST - repeat MUST - get rid of them or YOU are the one liable for any and all injuries, lawsuits, newspaper reporting and social media crucifixion. --173.28.xx.xxx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by ken [NY]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 6:46 PM
Message:

ask the attorney how much he will charge you to do the eviction? if he is smart he will refuse but if he does it he cant complain how long it is taking and it may preclude him from suing you --74.77.xx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by Anne [CA]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 7:18 PM
Message:

I want all newbie LL to read this thread! You guys are spot on about liability and tenant's pets.

Personally, I am not a pit or pit mix fan at all. I have gone unchallenged by tenants for years when I have mentioned that my insurance doesn't cover certain breeds, like Akitas, Chows and Dobermans, among a few others. But in CA particularly, the pet issue is a sticky wicket as we have the whole ESA issue. You have to tiptoe around it. This time, I made an exception, and it is literally biting me on the butt. Everyone, pls learn from my oversight.

I am on good terms with the tenant's sister, as she was a star tenant of mine for years before buying her house in Compton (lots of young couples who are priced out of LB are looking and buying there.) In fact, it was the sister who reached out to me to see I could rent to her sister (current tenant.) I think if there are any problems with the eviction, I could talk to the sister for some kind of backup. It's crazy how different two kids from the same parents can be (one responsible and kind, the other disrespectful and a nuisance.) --172.117.xxx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 8:55 PM
Message:

Even good tenants can sour. Now is the time for you to act. You are not a doggie shrink so no one knows what the dogs were thinking. Was the attack in your property or theirs? If it was the neighbors property, then failure to control an animal.

Question - did your tenant have renter's insurance? --24.101.xxx.xxx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by Anne [CA]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2024 10:38 PM
Message:

The event happened on the next-door neighbor's property-my tenant's dog somehow climbed under their fence and started attacking their dog. --172.117.xxx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by Rick [IN]) Posted on: Jun 3, 2024 6:51 AM
Message:

Do EVERYTHING you can to get rid of this tenant AS SOON as possible! --75.104.xx.xx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jun 3, 2024 7:28 AM
Message:

So you have a tenant who is not in control of a dog who is proving to be dangerous. As a landlord, you knew they had this dog and you didn't act before this event.

You are at least partly at fault. If you don't act now you are saying you are will be holding on to extra liability. You need to clean house and try to make amends with the neighbor. This is an expensive lesson - but you seem open to learning --24.101.xxx.xxx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jun 4, 2024 12:45 AM
Message:

Anne,

(I have not read all the previous replies)

Me? Why do you even have to ask? They are ALL OUTTA HERE!

BRAD --73.103.xxx.xxx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jun 4, 2024 8:42 AM
Message:

This new information doesn't change anything. It tells you the owner of the dog doesn't have control of their dog. It also tells you that the dog is vicious and not to be trusted. Actually this new information sets off more alarms. Take action. Get your paperwork together and move thru this. --172.59.xxx.xxx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Jun 4, 2024 10:43 AM
Message:

Anne,

Now that I read all 999,999 responses, you got some great advice.

Reading between the line I sense you are a kind, caring person. But they are not so you'll have to be a different person to handle this.

People don't make life changes like moving until they are forced with penalties and pain. That's not you.

I strongly suggest your hire an atty to be your warrior because the resident knows you are a softie.

Call one TODAY. If sued you must be able to document you acted swiftly when informed of a danger.

Good luck!

BRAD --73.103.xxx.xxx




Them, the dogs, or both? (by Anne [CA]) Posted on: Jun 5, 2024 12:42 AM
Message:

Thanks so much again. I am going to send a cure or quit notice to demand that they remove both dogs immediately. They will no longer be allowed to have dogs on the property.

I am going to apologize to the neighbor and ask him to call me directly if my tenants act up or if they sneak another dog in.

I am in their area about once a month, so I can monitor things to make sure they are compliant.

Again, thanks for all the feedback and I am grateful for this forum and website. --172.117.xxx.xx



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