Renovation Lessons (by Bill [NJ]) Apr 4, 2024 12:30 PM
Renovation Lessons (by Dodge [PA]) Apr 4, 2024 12:37 PM
Renovation Lessons (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Apr 4, 2024 12:40 PM
Renovation Lessons (by Sisco [MO]) Apr 4, 2024 12:52 PM
Renovation Lessons (by Robert J [CA]) Apr 4, 2024 1:37 PM
Renovation Lessons (by RB [TN]) Apr 4, 2024 1:42 PM
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Apr 4, 2024 2:31 PM
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Apr 4, 2024 2:33 PM
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Apr 4, 2024 2:56 PM
Renovation Lessons (by Busy [WI]) Apr 4, 2024 4:12 PM
Renovation Lessons (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Apr 4, 2024 7:15 PM
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Apr 4, 2024 8:24 PM
Renovation Lessons (by 6x6 [TN]) Apr 4, 2024 8:25 PM
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Apr 4, 2024 8:42 PM
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Apr 4, 2024 8:43 PM
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Apr 4, 2024 8:46 PM
Renovation Lessons (by Richard [MI]) Apr 4, 2024 9:51 PM
Renovation Lessons (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Apr 4, 2024 11:58 PM
Renovation Lessons (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Apr 5, 2024 1:11 AM
Renovation Lessons (by Sisco [MO]) Apr 5, 2024 8:06 AM
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Apr 5, 2024 11:11 AM
Renovation Lessons (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Apr 5, 2024 11:34 AM
Renovation Lessons (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Apr 5, 2024 4:46 PM
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Apr 5, 2024 5:23 PM
Renovation Lessons (by Sisco [MO]) Apr 6, 2024 7:35 AM
Renovation Lessons (by DJ [VA]) Apr 6, 2024 8:29 AM
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Apr 6, 2024 2:51 PM
Renovation Lessons (by zero [IN]) Apr 6, 2024 5:24 PM
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Apr 6, 2024 8:03 PM
Renovation Lessons (by DJ [VA]) Apr 6, 2024 10:25 PM
Renovation Lessons (by zero [IN]) Apr 7, 2024 8:56 AM
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Apr 7, 2024 9:21 AM
Renovation Lessons (by Bill [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 12:30 PM Message:
My contractor just finished a gut renovation of my bathroom. What I learned is:
• Know what style you want (traditional, mid century modern etc.) and get towel bars, faucets etc. that go together.
• Draw and dimension where everything will go. Towel bar, mirror, light fixtures etc. etc. If you do not specify where things will go the contractor will and it won’t be what you want. Consider getting a 3d design program which really helps visualizing layouts, and if you take the time, colors and styles
• Figure out exactly what you want before the job starts.
• For towel bars and shower doors, get blocking (wood) put behind them so they are not attached to just sheet rock.
• Include all of the above in the contract, along with: how long the project will take, who is buying what, who will take care of the garbage and everything else in detail. If you don’t specify, the contractor will do what he thinks and it won’t be what you want. Make sure this is all in the contract or write your own contract and get the contractor to sign it, which is what I did.
• Get smart on all aspects of bathroom renovation, like what insulation should be on exterior walls and in the ceiling (R-13, R-30, etc.)? How should a shower pan be installed? Then, check to see if the contractor is doing it right.
• Every night, after the contractor has left, get some lights on and check that things are being done correctly and how you requested. It’s much easier to catch something early than later. “A stich in time saves nine”
• Maintain a good relationship with your contactor. Pay him before he asks. Offer water, coffee and lunch. Show him respect for his knowledge and tell him when something is done well or looks great. If there is a problem, speak mater-of-factly and not emotionally. For example “ I see there’s R-13 insulation on the ceiling when I thought code calls for R-30 on a cathedral ceiling, in this zone”
• If you are buying materials like tile, toilets and vanities, get them on the job before he needs them and immediately check they are not broken, they are what you want and they are the right size.
Just some things I thought I learned. Love to hear any of your experiences working with contractors!
--173.63.xxx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by Dodge [PA]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 12:37 PM Message:
Great list! May wany to include payment terms too. Thanks for sharing your experiences. --98.235.xxx.xxx |
Renovation Lessons (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 12:40 PM Message:
Bill,
Good stuff!
-add wood blocking for grab bars in the shower walls.
-take DATED photos EVERY DAY to prove lack of progress when the contractor sues for more money for "all the extra work he did"
and also show elec lines, etc before drywall.
Trust a contractor as far as you can throw them.
BRAD
--73.103.xxx.xxx |
Renovation Lessons (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 12:52 PM Message:
Bill, be sure to include how the contractor is to remedy any work that does not conform to contract. --149.76.xxx.x |
Renovation Lessons (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 1:37 PM Message:
Thank you for sharing your renovation tips. As a contractor, clients often never listen. They want me to uphold our schedule time table, but they slack off on their part -- like providing the paint, tile and specific selection. One client "forgot" to order Italian imported tile that would take 3 months for delivery, then blaming me for the job not being finished on time. Or another client who's check kept on bouncing and couldn't afford to pick up a few gallons of paint, saying "Just paint the walls white". Then claiming I painted using the wrong paint. I let her husband pick up the paint and in tern he had his daughter pick out the colors, she was an art major with impeccable taste. --47.155.xx.x |
Renovation Lessons (by RB [TN]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 1:42 PM Message:
If ya don't plan,
plan to fail ! --69.130.xxx.xxx |
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 2:31 PM Message:
I didn’t write this as an all-inclusive renovation checklist, more just some things that popped out for me, but yes Dodge, payment terms on the contract! Was 1/3 at start 1/3 half way through and 1/3 completion. I figured halfway was once the sheetrock went up.
Well thanks BRAD! I didn’t do any grab bars, but in hindsight I should have posted this before I did the job and you may have told me something like “you’re not getting any younger, so grab bars are a good idea and make sure you put some blocking behind them” :-) And I forgot this time, but have taken photos before sheetrock went up and found it very helpful to know where elec, plumbing, ducts are behind walls and ceilings. Trick is to name the photos/directory so you’ll be able to search for them 5,10 years from now.
That is interesting Sisco. How would you write that?
Geeze Robert, that sounds frustrating. How about videotape them when they start giving instructions?
Yeah RB, almost like plan once and build once (vs twice)
--173.63.xxx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 2:33 PM Message:
Another thing I learned is that dimmers don’t make great night lights in a bathroom. You need to first turn them up and then dim them down. I now wish I had installed a separate switch for a two watt night light, so when you wake at 3am, you just flick the night light switch and don’t wake yourself up. The dimmers are nice for other reasons though. --173.63.xxx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 2:56 PM Message:
and those panasonic whisper fans aren't what you want when going the bathroom. Maybe you don't want a fan that yells, but at least one that makes some noise --173.63.xxx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 4:12 PM Message:
You’re supposed to feign a cough, Bill! Lol!
Good list Bill.
This list works for husbands too. I mean working with husbands. Unfortunately I couldn’t fire him when he put the towel bar and toilet paper holder on the WRONG studs and blocking. I had already done a three part custom paint treatment that does not take to patching well, so I’ve had to live with the toilet paper holder directly over the heat register and under the towel bar . When furnace kicks on, toilet paper flutters around tickling yer leg. And wet towels have to be folded in half down the length to hang on only half the towel bar to dry so they don’t get the toilet paper wet.
And we lost the photos of the blocking we put in for future grab bars in shower. I should have printed a diagram over a photo of the tub/shower wall and taped it inside the closet. For a rental, the photo could go in the file cabinet. --172.58.xxx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 7:15 PM Message:
For insulation it is better to stay clear of fiberglass insulation as can develop mold. Spray foam has the least heat transfer along with is completely air tight. Roxul batt is good second choice as does not deteriorate after few years. Spray foam and insulation board has the greatest R factor for inch. R 30 is good but if space is available can go for R 50 and more. Uponor commercial pex will reduce plumbing costs as less labour along with bends easily so fewer joints.One 3/4" line then manifolds to 1/2" where piping can all the fixtures in one bathroom One 3/4'line for hot and cold. A schluter ditra membrane then a good quality porcelain tile so floor is water proof. --207.236.xxx.xxx |
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 8:24 PM Message:
feign a cough? Ahh, that's what you do. I was trying to feign a noisy fan.
Well, look on the bright side, people pay extra for a heated towel bar and you've got one for free along with heated toilet paper. Luxury at its finest!
Robert, I would have liked to use spray foam, but these guys didn't know how to do it and when I've contacted spray foam companies in the past, they want to do like a minimum $3k job.
My rafters are 6" and I had the contractor put another 2x6 on the bottom of the rafter to get R-30, but with spray foam I think I could have gotten R-35 without lowering my slopped ceiling, along with the spray foam air sealing you mentioned above. They did do copper as I'm still a little leary of pex. I wish I would have gotten your advice before I did the job. Thanks! -Bill --173.63.xxx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 8:25 PM Message:
Thank you for sharing, Bill. I don't generally hire contractors, seems to be overpriced and too many problems. I DIY most things. I am curious though, how much did it cost?
Also, when taking photos of where things are, it can be helpful to put a tape measure on the floor or the wall.
I put my pictures on a digital folder for each house. --76.129.xxx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 8:42 PM Message:
It was a guy renovation of a 6 x 12 bathroom. The tub was replaced with a 36 x 72 shower pan with sliding glass doors, both gotten from Costco. Everything stayed in the same place. 6 x 24 tile on the floor and 3 x 12 tile only on the shower walls. There was a 44 x 22 window in the shower, up high.
I paid $15k plus 2.5k for an expanded hallway closet and a few other extras. I provided all the visible things: vanity, shower base, doors, toilet and tile and contractor provided sheetrock, wire, etc.
I received other quotes from $17k up to $45K. This guy was the least expensive but I went with him because I had the best feeling about him. I ended up really having to stay on top of his workers, as he wasn't around much and when he was, he did try to take some short cuts. Overall, I was happy with the job, but I guess time will tell --173.63.xxx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 8:43 PM Message:
Gut renovation --173.63.xxx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 8:46 PM Message:
Oh, and I do like having a tape measure in the photos. A lot of times it saves having to do a sketch with dimensions. A picture says a thousand words.
And that is pretty much what I do to0 with the photos, put them in a sub directory under the house address.
Thanks! --173.63.xxx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 9:51 PM Message:
When you pay them ALWAYS get a material and labor release for all work done to date and all materials supplied. Have everyone sign it- contractor and ALL the workers, WITHOUT FAIL.
Every time you see a new worker on the job, immediately introduce yourself and get their name and phone if you can, and a picture of them. Last thing you want is a claim that they have not been paid or that materials have not been paid. Get the material lien from the material supplier if the contractor does not provide the materials or if you suspect the contractor might not have paid for the materials (some don't). --172.58.xxx.xxx |
Renovation Lessons (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Apr 4, 2024 11:58 PM Message:
-all change orders in writing, with a price, signed by both parties.
-Richard is describing a LIEN WAIVER. Essential!
BRAD --73.103.xxx.xxx |
Renovation Lessons (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Apr 5, 2024 1:11 AM Message:
Home depot and Rona here where Lowes pulled out of Canada sell DIY Two Can spray foam kits where have used to insulate house where now slowly starting to see the results. Have to wear a hazmat suit, masks and safety glasses after three days smell goes away. Also the structure is stronger under spray foam where can support weight where drywall below will support weight. The empty cans can be recycled at the scrap metal place where puncture holes so when crushed will not cause a problem. In the ceiling once spray foamed complete going put down plywood, rafter vents then add more insulation on top plywood to bring attic so will be at room temperature all year round. The Canadian dumps will absolutely not accept fiberglass insulation where will take transfer station which will go to Ann Arbor Michigan. DIY spray foam kits to apply must be close to room temperature so will wait until outside warms up where it snowed last night along will snow a bit this evening. When apply two can foam must be in one inch layers as there is heat with each layer where one layer then will dry then another layer. --207.236.xxx.xxx |
Renovation Lessons (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Apr 5, 2024 8:06 AM Message:
Should any of the specifications in this agreement not be followed, contractors shall remove all plumbing fixtures, wall coverings, floor coverings, electrical fixtures , and remove non conforming items, then replace with items which conform to specifications contained in this agreement. contractors shall Complete the project as specified. Homeowner shall not incur any expense from the remediation process.
Contractor shall pay homeowner $125 per day for loss of use while remediation of deficiencies is underway. --149.76.xxx.x |
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 5, 2024 11:11 AM Message:
Thanks Sisco. I like that, how it's spelled out. In the past I fell like i've paid extra for contractors fixing their mistakes and this makes it clear the contractor is responsible. I'll bet it also keeps contractors a little more on their toes to do the work as specified.
Thanks Robert, I hadn’t considered HD for a spray foam kit and it seems like this may have worked and saved the additional 2 x 6 below the rafter. The Froth-Pak kit I looked at showed r 12 at 2” thick but it seems that 2” was the max thickness they recommended so I couldn’t get R-30 with that particular product but there's probably others I could.
Richard and BRAD, Change orders in writing make sense to me, but I haven’t heard of the material and labor release. I was working with my neighbor, who is a contractor and I did trust him, though I hadn’t worked with him before.
--173.63.xxx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Apr 5, 2024 11:34 AM Message:
Thanks for sharing Bill.
I plan on printing this off and giving this to my brother over in Chicagoland --24.101.xxx.xxx |
Renovation Lessons (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Apr 5, 2024 4:46 PM Message:
Have used more then 2 inches where considerable heat when applying so one inch each application then let cool then apply additional layers. View some videos on how to use two spray foam kits where will explain application procedures. Can also add solid board which will increase R factor. Spray foam is air tight so no mold. --207.236.xxx.xxx |
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 5, 2024 5:23 PM Message:
Thanks Ray-N-Pa for letting me know that. Good to hear!
Robert, I just watched "Using a Froth Pak - DAP System 600 Spray Foam Kit A Concord Carpenter / ToolBoxBuzz". Really good. I wish I would have talked to you before the renovation! Well, I do have a cantilevered extension I was looking to better insulate/air seal, so it may work there. Thanks!
--173.63.xxx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Apr 6, 2024 7:35 AM Message:
Be sure to include the remedy in your lease contract too. --149.76.xxx.x |
Renovation Lessons (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Apr 6, 2024 8:29 AM Message:
Not specific to bathrooms, but other gut renovation lessons:
Before drywall is installed, mark on the sub-floor with a permanent marker the location of studs. Particularly in the kitchen, where cabinets will be installed, in closets where you will install shelf supports. Anyplace that is "special", like the studs are not spaced evenly, there used to be a door there & now there is a header in the wall instead of a stud all the way up, the (rotted) bottom was sistered with a new stud & the one you see low doesn't go all the way up, etc. If the final floor is already in, use painters tape.
I also take photos of the studs & support wood I installed, where special things will go later - with a tape measure in the photo sometimes, but it's easier to do by marking the measurement on the wood - with a directional arrow as to which way it was measured from- and take a photo of that.
Add a high receptacle next to the support wood for the wall-mounted TV. --68.229.xxx.xxx |
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 6, 2024 2:51 PM Message:
Thanks Sisco, I hadn't thought of putting it on my lease.
DJ, why mark on floor? Can't you use a stud detector to mark on the wall? --173.63.xxx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Apr 6, 2024 5:24 PM Message:
BillW, as someone who has put a lot of base trim down over the years it is always easier to look at a mark on the floor than to grab a stud finder and spend more time.
I have marked one stud then put a tape measure out to get the rest. Only on new/good construction tho. Those odd ones where there is an old door or someone put the stud on the wrong side of the line will get you.
Hanging rock I use the same thoughts. But I add pencil marks on the ceiling as well so I can just shoot screws all the way down.
Used to be fast at stuff like that. Not so much now. I guess that makes it even more important to be able to shave time and hassle as you go. --107.147.xx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 6, 2024 8:03 PM Message:
Gotcha. Thanks zero for the insight on that. Though I still don't get marking the sub floor. Won't you have your finished floor down before you put on base trim? --173.63.xxx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Apr 6, 2024 10:25 PM Message:
Bill:
Like zero said, it's quicker & easier when you can still see where the studs are - and when they are not all new, plumb, & perfectly spaced.
For me, the final floor is the last thing to go down. If I want stud locations for baseboard, I could transfer the floor mark to the lower wall, in pencil
Knowing where the studs are really helps when installing cabinets & closet shelf supports, especially. --68.229.xxx.xxx |
Renovation Lessons (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Apr 7, 2024 8:56 AM Message:
Depends on the flooring you are installing. If a rental and I am putting LVP or carpet then the base goes up before the floor goes down. Carpet tucks and LVP gets quarter round for ease of future removal.
If putting ceramic, glue down vinyl or some such I transfer the lines to the wall. Usually the bottom line of drywall fasteners doesn't get coated in mud so I already have it there. Then when floor is done I can put marks on painter's tape if needed.
I have also put pencils, pens, nails and other semi-straight small objects on the floor a few inches out from the wall but at the studs. Drop the baseboard in and start nailing. Goes smooth enough for one wall at a time. --107.147.xx.xx |
Renovation Lessons (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 7, 2024 9:21 AM Message:
interesting stuff DJ and zero. I get it now, transferring the floor marks to the walls. You've inspired me to do more of this myself. I enjoy the work and I think I sleep better --173.63.xxx.xx |
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