So I wrote a while ago about trying to get rid of a section 8 cranky/miserable tenant.

So she rents a big unit, 3 bedroom and 2600 sq apt of which in order to get an apt that big, she claims her granddaughter lives there plus ,the grand daughter's child as well as the primary tenant ,..We find the grand daughter actually lives 12 miles away with her boyfriend for years and only visits her son a few times a week.

My contractor who is doing work inn that unit says there are only 2 beds, the middle bedroom is used for storage.

So I'm told that when/if this is discovered by housing she will have to move elsewhere, by their rules..

I have faxed the local office alerting of this but they are notorious for not acting on anything., citing lack of personnel and resources.

I was wondering if to contacting HUD or threatening to do so if it might get them to act.but I was wondering if HUD and local housing are connected? From this site I saw where HUD enforces things much better.

Are they really connected? If so do you think it would be worthwhile to contact them?

Because she has been making our lives miserable, I can rent that unit for at least that price to a better person, and I really don't want to be of a part of fraud.

IMO, it would be a waste of your time trying to get the regional HUD agency to force your local PHA to do anything.

As far as them verifying that it is as a 2 instead of a 3-bedroom unit, when was the last time that S8 did an inspection? When they do their yearly inspections do they notify you before it & allow you to be there?

If you want to get the local PHA to do their job, just be aware that you may win the battle over this tenant, but you will most likely lose the war.

I've found that when dealing with a PHA or even a tenant, it's important to document everything & follow up on it. For instance, in this particular case, I would first call & speak with their case worker & follow it up with a letter or Email to the caseworker as well as their supervisor basing stating that I was confirming our phone conversation of Monday (or whatever day) regarding my tenant Mary Smith of unit 1 at 123 Main Street in Boston & state whatever the issue was. Then if I didn't get an appropriate response within a week or so I would follow up with another Email / letter cc to the caseworker & CC to their supervisor stating in large print across the top Second Request followed by my complaint. If I still didn't get an appropriate response I would do it again with THIRD REQUEST written across the top sent to not only the case worker & their supervisor but to each member of the local PHA.

I've never had to go any further than this but if I did, I would most likely send a letter to the editor of the local paper as well as the mayor / selectmen / state representative asking them if they could tell me how to get a response about a matter involving one of my S8 tenants from the local PHA. Make sure that you do not name the actual tenant if you have to go this far.

If you believe there is fraud going on, you can always reach out to your state's IG office and explain it.

Where you IDing how many times someone sleeps at a place is tough for you to prove, the IG can look up where the car is registered to.

Now I have plenty of clients that are a PITA. But I understand that they are a PITA in the beginning. The best training up front isn't going to change most people. It is my opinion that being a landlord is an instructor position. So, I see this as an opportunity for you find a lease violation for them to correct. When they don't correct, you need to reach out to the housing office and file - especially if it is a safety issue

Be careful if you plan on keeping any kind of cordial relationship with your local Sec 8 provider. Bureaucrats are notoriously vindictive, and they will circle the wagons to protect their own (and keep things quiet so their higher up bosses don't go poking around).

If possible, I would simply non-renew their rental contract and give no reason. Otherwise, find a substantial lease violation and evict for that.

Don't rely on HUD to get you out of a mess. 99% chance it will backfire somehow.

So I don't know what or how this tenant is "being a pain" (I can imagine) but if they are doing or saying things that are against your lease "rules", etc... then that's what you act on.

For Section 8 there are landlord statements they require on a yearly basis or whenever there is a change in tenant, rental amount change, ownership, etc.

When was the last time you completed one? I agree with the others... just keep collecting your rent and mind your business. If the tenant is doing or saying something that isn't something that you need to address and they are just "complaining" then just ignore them. If they are indicating something needs to be fixed and it does... then fix it. If they are breaking it... then charge them or move them out.

why are you messing around with section 8? Is it required to accept it in MA?

You'll be wasting your time ... I had a S8 peep kicked off the program. She appealed. Months later a "payment plan" was established for her to replenish the funds she received from HUD while not claiming her sons FULL TIME EMPLOYMENT income as household income.

Lat S8 tenant I had played the game very well for her. I got tired of her kids selling drugs out of the apartment.

I did the non-renewal, The HA balked at first but admitted it was legit. I told the T that I didn't want anything to do with the 5 second visitors and she denied it all. I didn't care.

She moved out to a different place. This was in December of 2019. I gave her extra time past Christmas because I am a dummy. But she kept the place clean and was a good tenant otherwise.

Now I am still getting letters from the HA saying I owe money because she said she left on the 17th instead of after the holiday.

What a fight that is taking place.

I am so completely done with the organization.

I should also add that we would have clients come in to recertify that had Regional Transit Worker (bus driver) employee ID badges hanging around their neck and no caseworker bothered to query about their employment status. These were mostly protected class clients... rubber stamped through.

I think the problem in Ma is the tenant if we raise the rents beyond what housing approves that this tenant will just stop paying anything,..Then if we try to get her ot by using non payment, she will apply to RAFT, and then we are not allowed to evict her.

I think the same if we do the non renewal way.

Another one I had in S8 in NH .... her kid turned 18 so she lost a BR and the $$ that went with it. I was told she can stay BUT must pay the difference herself. She begged/borrowed/stole for a couple months. Then fell behind.

It appears to me as though you are afraid to either terminate her lease or to raise her rent because of what MIGHT happen & not what actually happens. I think that you are spending way too much time & energy trying to figure out what to do & are hoping that someone else is going to solve this problem. IMO that as long as you've maintained a proper paper trail of the events that have happened, you shouldn't be too concerned about her falsely claiming retaliating.

If I was in your situation & thought that if I properly terminated her lease that she would continue to stay there & that the PHA would stop paying their portion of her rent, I would do as MA LL / Tenant law requires send her & the PHA a notice to quit along with an offer of a new tenancy at a much higher rate. I'd make this new rent at least $500.00 or more likely $1,000.00 more than her current rent. If I'm being forced to endure her BS, I at least want to be compensated for it. You would also need to use the PHA's required form requesting a rent increase.

A couple of final thoughts;

When does her existing lease end?

Are you a member of Mass Landlords? Have you taken any of their LLing courses or participated in any of their zoom sessions? If not, why not?

Mark Now they owe 12K have been to our local LL assoc

and have used both of their lawyer recommendations,..so far I have spent over 15K on lawyers and the tenant is still there ,..they previously applied for RAFT which paid for some of their rent and we were not allowed to evict them all that time.

They applied for RAFT again as they are going to court this week,..we informed them that we don't want to use them.

They have good income but yet were approved for tens of thousands.Apparently using all the rent not paid to buy expensive stuff.

Now again, they have built up an arrears of around 12k.

This lawyer said not to go for the past arrears because when they get accepted under Raft we can't evict them, and we want them out. looking at the RAFT site, its amazing how many resources they can use to thwart and eviction.

Plenty,