radiator water heat (by 6x6 [TN]) Feb 8, 2024 9:01 PM
radiator water heat (by Ken [NY]) Feb 8, 2024 10:15 PM
radiator water heat (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Feb 8, 2024 11:25 PM
radiator water heat (by don [PA]) Feb 9, 2024 1:25 AM
radiator water heat (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Feb 9, 2024 7:28 AM
radiator water heat (by plenty [MO]) Feb 9, 2024 9:29 AM
radiator water heat (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Feb 9, 2024 11:34 AM
radiator water heat (by Allym [NJ]) Feb 9, 2024 12:38 PM
radiator water heat (by 6x6 [TN]) Feb 9, 2024 6:54 PM
radiator water heat (by MAT [PA]) Feb 9, 2024 9:01 PM
radiator water heat (by MAT [PA]) Feb 9, 2024 9:03 PM
radiator water heat (by 6x6 [TN]) Feb 10, 2024 6:06 PM
radiator water heat (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Feb 10, 2024 9:56 PM
radiator water heat (by don [PA]) Feb 11, 2024 1:32 AM
radiator water heat (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Feb 11, 2024 6:56 PM
radiator water heat (by 6x6 [TN]) Feb 12, 2024 9:20 PM
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radiator water heat (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2024 9:01 PM
On another post asking about repairing a leaking radiator, some of you mentioned that you really loved the heat from those water radiators. I don't really remember having much, if any, experience with them. Seems that I vagally remember when I was a kid that somewhere we lived, or perhaps where I went to school that there were radiators. I presume that these are very common in the colder climates.
Why do you like this type of heat so much?
Is it fairly efficient?
Do they just radiate the heat or is there a fan on them as well?
Would there be a radiator in each room of the house?
How big are these radiators?
How hot do they get?
How do they heat the water?
Is it expensive to have one installed compared to HVAC?
Where are the usually located in a room? Under windows?
Do you have to keep objects away from them?
How many years do they last?
Are they prone to rust out?
Do they use a rust inhibitor in the water?
What are they usually made of?
What all components are used in the system?
Are they pretty reliable?
Thank you for your time.
radiator water heat (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2024 10:15 PM
6x6 hot air systems are probably more common in your area due to wanting air conditioning,although i dont hear of anyone installing them in my area any longer,my partner owns a heating company and he does changeouts of boilers but i cant remember him telling me he installed a new one from scratch,they cost quite a bit more than a hot air system.I grew up in a house with steam radiators,it was built in the 50s and my parents still live there and the radiators and pipes are original and i dont ever remember having to work on them other than occasionally bleeding them.They are on the 3rd or 4th boiler that i know of though.It is considered a more even heat and you dont hear it blowing like hot air when it kicks on.Radiator in each room of various sizes to suit the needs of each room.they get warm but not hot enough to burn anyone, where i sit at my parents kitchen table there is a radiator next to me and i have always touched it just to make sure it is working when i sit down.I have had houses with radiators much older than my parents system,nothing in them other than water,made of cast iron,very heavy,they have enough value that if they come out someone will take them to a scrap yard if nothing else,$10 a hundred weight adds up with a full pickup load --74.77.xx.xx
radiator water heat (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Feb 8, 2024 11:25 PM
The most efficient is radiant floor hot water heat where can use a low temperature high efficiency gas boiler where the heat is even along with does not feel cold.With a radiator there is some heat loss through the wall along higher temperatures are required. Uponor commercial pex heating pipe where there a manifold in room to connect up pex piping along non electric thermostat. Unlike cast iron or copper pex does not have rust, sludge and corrosion problems. Pex has been used in Europe for a long time. The reason why a larger building does not use forced air is the size of furnace would be huge where boilers are smaller along with hot fan coils can be used which like forced air. As more insulation is added to wall then heat loss is significantly reduced. The future is net zero where very high levels of insulation in walls and ceiling where a HVAC system is not required. The less the heat loss the smaller the HVAC system is possible. Another advantage of gas high efficiency boiler is a indirect hot water tank can be added where there is immersion coil which is heat by boiler. Very low standby loss where less then one degree per hour. A direct fired hot water tank will have heat loss of 7 to 12 degrees per hour when no hot water is required. As there lower temperatures the indirect hot water tank can last up to 30 years. --207.236.xxx.xxx
radiator water heat (by don [PA]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2024 1:25 AM
Radiator heat does not dry out the air the way forced hot air does. It is also smoother and more even than forced hot air.
Each room has a radiator. There are 3 types. Cheapest id the fin and tube baseboard. There is also cast iron baseboard. The oldest version is the "iron horse" models, which are usually located under windows, for two reasons. First, windows are the source of the cold coming in, so the radiator evens that out. Second, you usually don't have furniture in front of a window so putting the radiator there does not further limit furniture layout.
Radiator heat is rarely used today because most houses are built with central air, so there has to be duct work. Even without central air, it is cheaper to run duct and vent covers than pipes and radiators. One advantage of using radiators along with central air is that you can optimize the ductwork for AC efficiency. --73.141.xxx.xxx
radiator water heat (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2024 7:28 AM
I have water heat and I love it. The temp is steady as it gets. It does take a while to achieve any temp that it is set to, but if the power goes out for say two hours in the dead of winter, it also takes for ever to cool down - doesn't matter how cold it is outside.
A new boiler system runs about $6,200 and one boiler can do a monster house in an even temp where forced air might not be as effective especially if that big old house is full of chopped up rooms.
When it comes to down time, my boiler has needed two repairs in about 15 years time.
There is a downside of water heat - no duct work for central AC. So water isn't a good choice for further south. Up here, winter is the best nine months of the year
So if you like stability, reliability and ease - these are great in very cold environments.......but can tenants go out of there way to break the system? Nothing in my opinion is tenant proof except maybe an I-Beam in the living room, but I am sure tenants would some how find a way to crack that too. --24.101.xxx.xxx
radiator water heat (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2024 9:29 AM
We had installed a new boiler just three years ago. Our house was built in 1904. The double brick walls with stacked bricks in-between was originally built with coal heat. We do not have steam heat, that is similar but different. It works excellent in our house with tall ceilings. There is no dust with this system. No filters to change. We control it just like forced air with a thermostat in the wall. The new boiler also works with our new water heater. It's extremely effective and efficient. Our heating bill are half out force air neighbors who converted. When we bought the house the boiler was on it's last legs, but we managed to love it thru two years of living here. There is no duct work. For some houses I doubt it would make sense but for older homes it may just solve a lot of issues. --172.59.xxx.xx
radiator water heat (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2024 11:34 AM
For Air conditioning can buy a split heat pump where no duct work is required then will have a second heating source as well as cooling. High insulation will increase comfort levels as heat will stay in longer along with HVAC will last longer. Spray foam in ceilings and walls reduces heat transfer all year round where it may take hours to half day to vary by one degree. So in the end about a very tight envelop to maintain temperature. --207.236.xxx.xxx
radiator water heat (by Allym [NJ]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2024 12:38 PM
I was born into a house with coal to steam and then we moved across the yard to the new house dad had built with a boiler and radiators for hot water. I love it. I could go sit by the radiator if I was cold as a child. It doesn't take long to come up either if you have a good boiler. I set mine at 74 and it will go there and stay at 73 for a long time and then come back up. Works best when it is very cold and windy out and keeps it a constant 74 then. These are the radiators under the windows that are about three feet in height and the width depends on need. Bathroom rad is smaller. One of my rentals has baseboard hot water and that one always seems comfy too with the pipes in the walls also radiating heat. I have hot air in one and I did live there and it's ok but I put in electric baseboard for both up and down as a supplement since there are big windows in the bedrooms and they get mighty chilly andthe ducts don't handle that well. --173.61.xxx.xxx
radiator water heat (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2024 6:54 PM
Thank you everyone for the replies and the education.
Robert, OntarioCanada, I read somewhere, a few years back, how that Europe has been using PEX for a long time before the US. How many years have they been using PEX in Europe? --73.190.xxx.xxx
radiator water heat (by MAT [PA]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2024 9:01 PM
I have a place with the big old hot water radiators that I lived in for a few years before moving out and renting it. Favorite heat I ever had for the reasons previously mentioned: nice steady heat, doesn't blow dust around, radiators truly have an architectural beauty, great for drying out wet sneakers. The only downside is that they do take longer to warm the place up than forced air. Probably 30-45 minutes to get the house comfortable after having it turned down, but ran like a freight train once it got going.
You ask how long they last? Based on my house, 136 years and counting. No rust protection inhibitor needed, since they're supposed to be 100% full of water and there's no air in there. You need both air and water to rust. They're made of cast iron, and heavy as an M1 Abrams.
I think the thermostat on the boiler is set to 180 degrees, so I would estimate the radiators are around 160 at their hottest. When at their hottest, you can hold on to them for a few seconds before pulling away. So you're not going to accidently burn yourself on them. Maybe you could if you knocked yourself unconscious and fell up against one for several minutes, but I don't know. You shouldn't pile stuff up right next to them, not because stuff will burn or catch fire, but because it will limit the circulation of hot air coming off them just like any other heating system. No fan, just the natural physics of hot air rising off the top and drawing cold air from the bottom replacing it.
Mine was heated by oil, but natural gas is very common too. --108.52.xxx.xxx
radiator water heat (by MAT [PA]) Posted on: Feb 9, 2024 9:03 PM
To answer your other question, my grandpa was a pioneer in PEX plumbing. He plumbed his house in PEX 50 years ago. Only back then they called it garden hose. >grins< --108.52.xxx.xxx
radiator water heat (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Feb 10, 2024 6:06 PM
Thank you MAT for the additional information and the humor. --73.190.xxx.xxx
radiator water heat (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Feb 10, 2024 9:56 PM
50 years ago pex piping became popular in Europe. In the seventies Uponor started to open branches in North America. There are two types of pex piping where are A type which requires a special expansion tool and cheaper B type which uses crimp fittings along connections diameter is smaller. For commercial only A type pex is allowed where the B type sold in the big box stores is residential. A type pex bends easily along with special tool installation is quick with no crimp fittings. Plumbers use A type as one type of pex can be used in commercial and residential. Less time for installation means more done per day. Can easily go into Uponor website then download a catalogue which applies to all types of installations. Plumbing, heating, sprinklers. Also view some videos on You Tube about both types of pex A and B. --207.236.xxx.xxx
radiator water heat (by don [PA]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2024 1:32 AM
mat--- the device that maintains constant water temp is called the aquastat, not thermostat --73.194.xxx.xxx
radiator water heat (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Feb 11, 2024 6:56 PM
The worst type of aquastat is a bimetal indoor outdoor where when windows left open the heat goes up than more windows open. A electronic boiler control system like a Tekmar does not increase temperature when a window is open as precision temperature control within one degree the tenants will have close window. Locking non electric thermostatic radiator valves made by Danfoss or Honeywell Braukman work on a modulation principal where as slowly opening and closing. When using condensing high efficiency gas boilers the temperature is regulated by outside temperature. Had a tenant complain out not enough heat where showed one of high efficiency gas boilers was constantly running where did not tell her minimum firing rate. Where asked if walked around the block how windows would be open. Radiant flooring heating reduces temperature as heat is over entire floor where then can focus on increasing insulation in walls and ceiling. If had the funds would get rid of copper finned baseboards then convert out completely to Uponor pex in floor heating. Lower temperatures lower temperature through walls and ceiling. --207.236.xxx.xxx
radiator water heat (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Feb 12, 2024 9:20 PM
Thank you, Robert Ontario and don. --73.190.xxx.xxx
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