So, when did you start hiring out for jobs that you could do yourself?

I got a call from my tenants at 7 AM this morning. Water all over the floor in the bathroom. I went over there and the toilet tank bolts were rusted and water leaked. They had towels everywhere, one of the young tenants even proudly told me that she “ran down to the basement and turned off the water to the whole house“! She thought that that would stop the water from coming in somehow, but I was proud of her! She told me she was happy that I showed her these things when she moved in.

Anyway, this is a job that I have done before and I know I could do again however, I just don’t want to do it anymore. It’s not a big job, but the thought of taking everything apart and making trips to the hardware store is not what I want to do.

When I first bought my properties 18 years ago, I did absolutely everything! I guess I had to “prove“ that I could do it! Now, I would rather call my plumber. I also remember Brad talking about “freedom”. Hanging up your tools so to speak. I’m not done with everything yet. There are still lots of things that I take care of but now I pick and choose.

The cheap side of me wants to take care of it myself, but as I know from experience, sometimes what you perceive as a one hour job turns into a three hour job! Plumber does it….badda bing, badda boom!!

About the time I started getting on Mr. LL I saw Brad posting about "take the tools out of the trunk." I was skeptical at first, but within a year or so I was hooked.

First task? Mowing. I hate mowing. Between my personal residence and rentals, I've mowed 1,000 lawns. Ugh. Takes a lot of time and is a very low value job. I found a guy who does it now for $30, and that includes trimming.

Next task? Cleaning. I hate cleaning tenant's filth. I started with Craigslist cleaning gals, but what I quickly learned is many of them do a mediocre job at best and want to be paid in cash on the spot the minute they are done. That's a hassle, so now I use a professional cleaning company that does rentals. The tenant's deposit is getting billed, and again this is a low value job that takes a lot of time and weighs on your soul after cleaning up a few dozen filthy units....

From there, I quickly moved to hire out flooring (takes FOREVER), plumbing, and electrical. Can I do most/all of those jobs? Yeah, but.... WHY!?!?

I have three kids, and I was getting up at 2 AM to go repair a floor or clean a unit. I was gone on weekends and 3 evenings a week just to TRY to keep up with 12 units. Ugh, ugh, UGH!

But then I followed Brad's advice. The tools are no longer in the trunk. EVERYTING gets hired out now. Even my 3 times per year property inspections where we change filters and replace smoke detector batteries. Found a Realtor buddy who agreed to do that with his son as a "teachable moment" and to earn money for his son to fix up his car.

If I had kept the tools in the trunk, I would be burned out and probably have gone nuts by now. Would also have missed all the family and friends time I now have. Likely, I'd never have grown from 12 units to 54 units either. There's simply not enough time to do it all or to do it well.

Follow Brad's advice today. Call five handyman ads and figure out a small job you can give them to test their reliability and skill. Do the same with professionals (plumbers, electricians, HVAC). My goal is to have a list of each profession five people/companies "deep" so there's always someone I can call.

Good luck and happy times, more freedom, and profits!

I am slowly putting a stop to the work.

I do not do roofs any more. Too tough on my old body and the crew can get it done super fast.

I had given up mowing last year. I liked the extra time it gave me. Although I stopped mowing my property as much as I was. Mow guy doesn't know my location. Well I had new siding on two places and there was damage to both. Plus some cement board I installed that got cracked. Asked the guy about it and he said wasn't him. I explained the timelines and his reply was ... "and you pay me how much?" Now I need a new mow guy.

Latest house I got needed some work. Painting, a little tile and some cleaning. I did those. There is also a water issue in the basement.

Met with a guy yesterday who will give me a quote to cut the cement, dig out and install a sump pit with the pipes needed to get it to the drain. Unless his quote is a million bucks he can do it. I will work on my rehab and be happy about not doing the harsh physical labor.

It depends. I have an apartment that I'm turning over. Three rooms needed to be painted. Could have done it myself, but it's tax season, and I really don't have time. Hired it for $ 750.00 and the guy was done in one day. It would have taken me three days working part time evenings and weekends.

GKARL, I've gotten some of my best reference for handyman work from my trusted HVAC, electrician and plumbing guys. Those guys hang out with each other and talk shop, and often they need someone to help do a "this or that" kind of thing to support their work. Just let them know you're hiring and I bet you get a dozen or so references.

I’m glad I’m not alone in feeling this way! All good advice

I used to do the mowing and the snow blowing. Again I would pride myself on getting these jobs done myself! I had an old 1988 Volvo square back station wagon, and I would load my little snowblower into the back and drive over to the property and take care of the driveway, same thing with my lawnmower.

Now, I have a guy who mows the lawn as it is a particularly awful and steep lawn to mow. Plus, I have a snow plow that comes when it snows!

And as I’ve learned with Plumbing, you can get all of the items and do the best you can, and then suddenly you have a leak!

Tools and materials never left my hands.

Building and fix'n brings me joy.

I never came here complaining about the physical work

or having to hire, fire, or train somebody.

It's either in your blood or it's not.

I salute the handful here that can and do.

The first jobs I hired out was a result of reading on this board. I had 3 vacancies and had never really considered the cost of a unit sitting empty. I quickly figured out how much it would cost to hire out the turnover and how much it would cost to have units sitting empty until I could get to it and I realized I was losing money doing it myself.

Scared of heights, so everything on a roof is hired out, except gutter cleaning. But I added the long tube kit to my Ego blower, so that gets done from the ground by me. Never touched electrical, as Dad was an insurance agent, and us kids took phone messages, occasionally were with Dad when he went to see a property. Spatial relations issues ( how things flip, turn, slide) so, if plumbing goes in a space where it will be covered by drywall, I leave that to a pro. And, garage door openers. I just don’t ‘get’ those.

But, like others, I like to do the physical work. Landscaping is my hobby, now back into native landscaping, or ‘restorative’ landscaping. Enjoy painting and cleaning (weirdo) though I have to break up the work as I’ve had carpal tunnel syndrome since my teen years (surgeries helped, but there was lots of scar tissue/damage). Then there is the task of managing the hires. From finding the contractors all the way through getting the 1099s out, all that is work, and I don’t always enjoy that.

It feels like a wonderful treat to just call one of the companies I regularly use and just get some tasks done. In, out, credit cards on file, and no 1099s.

When I started landlording, it really was to fulfill a longtime ambition, but my family always comes first, and my employment always took a backseat to being Mom. Fortunately, as a spoiled princess (lol!) we could afford this, and we managed to work out our differences to remain married (barely, y’all know that is no easy feat! But we’re both stubborn). Then daughter and son-in-law started their family. Oi! Another distraction! I never developed the little empire of twenty or so properties that I first intended. Just the four little houses, but do have four grandkids that get a good chunk of my time .

Same here with "if I can and have the time (and knowledge) I will. Some things I just won't do on properties: electrical, plumbing, hvac and roofing specifically.

There is too much to screw up and I don't "want" to know necessarily HOW to do it. I had a great handyman (still in touch with him but he doesn't "work" for others now, only on his own properties) that was trying to show me things so I could "do it myself". I didn't want to know. Ok... I am someone that "wants to know" but I don't really want to fix it. I want to know enough so that if I have someone feeding me a line of BS I know not to use them or get someone else to do it. But for the most part... I just don't want to.

We hire plumbers, electricians and HVAC for occupied units. Usually.

We hire drywall and painters for new units.

We hire roofers for all units.

But DH is still the first line of defense: he responds to tenant calls to diagnose the issues, as often what a tenant reports has nothing to do with the real issue, or the real issue is either more or less serious than reported.

I still like doing a lot of the work myself and have a barn full of the right tools to do almost anything. I particularly like sweating copper lines and installing can lights.

I knew it! I knew it! I knew there would be more to just simply changing out the bolts and the rubber gasket

My plumber just left. He is amazing! I’ve used him for years and whenever I have time I’m there to “help“ him on the job! He gives me little tips on things, and he gives me lots of information. He lets me watch him and ask questions. I learned a lot from him just today!

So, the darn bolts that held the tank to the toilet, were so rusted that he had to cut them off with his recip saw. I would not have anticipated that until I was into the job. Do I have a recip saw? Yes, of course I do….. however….. one more unanticipated snag

Yo Jo,

30 minutes later, what did he honestly charge

Yes, it went so smoothly! I’ve done plumbing in the past, but I just did not want to do this job, even though it wasn’t that big of a job.

RB……. I don’t know as he did not bill me today. I will probably get the bill within a few days. I don’t use anyone else, so I don’t know what their charges are however, probably much higher by other standards. I will not use anyone else. He responds quickly, is polite, respectful, cleans up nicely, and teaches me things along the way.

Within the last year, he has replaced 4 water heaters and one toilet for me. I keep telling him that I’m funding his retirement!

I hire some out. Started when it I just simply couldn't do it all and at the expense of family. Trust me, I would rather do it myself. So some real stupid stuff....

I don't feel so bad now about not doing much anymore. We laugh every time we go on a certain county road, I ask DH does he remember the time the loading board blew off the back of the truck (for the lawn mower)? We had to go back and look up and down the road for it! LOL Good times!

Our handyman complained yesterday about the Harbor Breeze ceiling fan/light I bought at Lowes. I tried to save a few bucks and didn't get a Hunter. Never again. He said it was a million little screws in it (blades) and he dropped one down in the motor so then there was that? Had a time getting it out. We had bought a Hampton Bay from Home Depot when we were at the beach and it was fine but HD is an hour from us here at home. So Lowes is only 20 miles.

I keep trying to get Brad's lesson in my head so I will keep listening.

As for now, I keep doing everything myself except major roofing. I don't like heights. I can do a few HVAC things but not much as of yet. Those guys charge way too much money so I plan on continuing to learn that. I also tend to fire most contractors that I do rarely hire because they don't seem to do the job well, don't clean up after their self, leave cigarette butts everywhere, use cheap materials and charge way too much. I can do as good a job or better than most of them.

I actually hired an older painter last year to do most of the painting on my major rehab project. He was a good enough painter but was constantly taking time off to go to the doctor or take someone else. He also was slow, and it cost me about as much as if I hired a company. I do like the guy though.

For these reasons I find it very difficult to take the tools out of the truck. I would rather do it myself. It takes me a really long time, but I save more money in labor than I loose with the unit sitting empty.

I keep thinking about it through and reading what everyone hear has to say. Maybe one day I will change my evil ways.

I did ALL the work for the first 20 years and was proud to walk into Lowes with a big ring of keys and paint on my clothes - a real landlord!

Then, at a seminar (they have taught me how to be wealthy) the speaker challenged us to be $100/hour INVESTORS rather than $10/hour HANDYMEN. "Why do you think YOU are the only person who can swap out a toilet wax ring or paint a room?"

At 55 houses I could not keep up and realized how much rent I was losing while houses WAITED for me.

I also realized my personal life was interfering with rentals -can't work on Smith St, gotta be at little nephew's birthday party.

I tried tapering off. Did not work.

When I quit cold turkey and took the tools out of my truck my income MUSHROOMED! Houses were rented, rent flowing in MORE than paid for the workers.

They worked quicker and better than me. My painter and his brother would show up at 10 am, work thru the night, call to be paid the next morning having completed the entire house!

WHILE I SLEPT!!

For the past 27 years and many more houses MY tools are cellphone and camera.

BRAD

It took me seeing it on a spread sheet before I would believe it. Yes, you can turn a property, given enough time. But when you start to see money lost because you wanted to save money.....it was like a sledge hammer hitting me in the head.

Exact opposite here. We add up what a contractor would charge us and DH ends up doing it himself, because it's a month's rent for a paint job and a month's rent (at least) for electrician and a month's rent (at least) for a plumber...and he could do it all in a month...

I vote 100% for Brad's advice and can confidently say, based on my balance sheets, "It worked for me."

I haven't seen anyone's balance sheets here, but I would CHALLENGE each of your DIYers to add up how much you lost to vacancy last year during down time.

Turns that used to take me 2 weeks now take 2 days. That's almost $400 lost to vacancy, plus $100 to utilities, plus I'm constantly running over there (wear and tear on me, my car, etc), plus TIME. TIME! How do you value your TIME?

I'm worth at least $100/hour. Actually, $250/hour if I take my income and divvy it over the work year. So if I spend 12 hours getting a rental ready, I must save AT LEAST $3,000 just to break even...

Then there's health. After doing a lot of work, my back and quads hurt usually. I realized that some day my body will start saying "Nope" when I attempt to do flooring for 8 hours. Aching for 2 days... bleh. Construction/rehab is a young man's job. I've seen too many DIY older contractors; their bodies are in terrible condition. 50 year old who look and move like 70-80 year-olds. No thanks. I need to be the one hiring the old dude who has a young, go-getter crew.

Also, what happens when Sid is sick or on vacation? Everything grinds to a halt.

What WOULD happen if Sid got hit by a bus and was out of commission for 2-3 months? Yikes! For the DIYers out there: do you have a back up plan for when you're "out" for whatever reason?

I'm at 54 units: 1 shy of Brad. I could barely keep up with 12 units, but I wasn't full time either.

Am I saying you can't do it? Nope, I would never be so arrogant. Just tossing out so real world challenges to consider and present the profit motive for doing it. There will come a day when we're too busy, too old, too slow, or too tired to keep up. If we have to prepare for the inevitable, why not do that now?

Btw, I'd never have gotten into commercial if I maintained my DIY status. Instead of cleaning fridges and painting walls, I went out and found a $425,000 automotive shop that was for sale. That was three years ago. Today, it's conservatively valued at $650,000 as a 9 CAP.

Math... $650K - $425K = $225K. I'd have to "save" $75,000 per year with DIY labor to have that make any sense. And we're not even counting the $1,500 per month of free cash flow it puts into my pocket.

Challenge yourself. Try it for 6 months. If you hate it and/or the numbers don't work, you can always pick the paint brush back up. What have you got to lose?

I agree 6x6, it’s b s hiring everything out. It’s not like everybody is up to their eyeballs with leads on deals that occupies 9 to 5 Monday through Friday where you’re out chasing deals all day every day. Some people yes, most people no. Good if you are, but most likely you’re not. So if you hire it ALL out, what do you REALLY do with your time?

95% of investors are not chasing so many deals that they don’t have the time to work on their properties.

Even if you are chasing deals every day and you get one, how many more can you REALLY get? It’s not like you have endless money as well as endless deals. So what spectacular things are you really doing with your time? Sitting around? Golfing? Cruises? Oh God, no thanks.

More power to you if you can do it. I just think it’s the exception, not the rule.

Personally, I would lose my mind. I can’t stand if I’m not working on a project that I know is out there that needs to be finished.

I take my boys with me to the project all the time. Compared to young kids now, hopefully they’ll be able to do something other than click a mouse when they’re older.

I think it really boils down to this...

Do what you can do, hire out what you can't.

Simple really. I hire out more than I did 20 years ago. I can afford it, they do a faster and most likely better job, and I get to do what I want to do.

Most of the time what I want to do is work on another project. I still enjoy doing a lot of this stuff. The things I hate I hire out. The things I am not good at I hire out. I hire a tax guy to run all my end of year stuff. I happily pay him so I don't miss something that I should have known.

I won't hire his firm to put tile up around a surround. That's not his job. He does what he likes and is good at so I can as well.