I’m trying to help my daughter and her husband with buying their first house in NJ. Many of the houses we see are flips.

Any thoughts about buying a flip? I think a flipper is mostly concerned with cosmetics and not long-term reliability of the house.

I figured I'd call the city and find out what permits have been gotten for the work. Any other thoughts about buying a flip?

Thanks -Bill

Generally speaking, I would not want one. Like you said, they just put lipstick on a pig. Maybe not all, but most of them do.

I think you will find no permits were issued.

I've toured "flip" houses and I got some contractor recommendations from a flipper, none of which I will ever use again. They make their money by making the house look pretty, not by making it function long-term. Here are some of the shortcuts I've seen:

--electrical junctions made outside of boxes

--bathtubs spray-painted white

--tile installed over sheetrock instead of cement board

--retaining walls and decks built from wood that hasn't been pressure-treated

--load-bearing walls removed to create "open concept" without adding the necessary support beams

--the cheapest of the cheap replacement vinyl windows installed

--cabinets that appear super modern but are essentially particleboard covered with contact paper

--foundation issues disguised with hydraulic cement and paint

Most of these shortcuts will lead to expensive repairs down the road. I would rather buy a fixer-upper and make sure the upgrades are done right.

I was a licensed home inspector for 7 years and inspected many flips. About half were “lipstick on a pig” jobs, where the only thing that was focused on was appearance.

Advice to you…get a quality home inspector and realize that 75% of the issues I found in houses are in places the layperson either doesn’t usually go (attics, crawl spaces, roofs) or doesn’t have the training to evaluate.

I agree with the above people.

I'd advise to buy a place that needs work and let them fix it up themselves. Do it the right way the first time. As a bonus, you'll save money by not paying retail for the "lipstick" that someone else did, plus when they do the work they will appreciate it more.

I'd advise getting a small place out in the country with some land with it, not a downtown place.

Almost all investors do not bother to consult a tax expert and buy a FLIP without a back up plan. Do you know about depreciation? Putting a rental in service?

When I purchase a property, I always have two or three choices on how to proceed. For example I purchased a corner 2 bedroom house with an alley between the main street and a row of commercial properties sharing the alley. Plus there was a park across the street that limited street parking. All bad. I tried to pull permits to change where the garage was located, from the alley to the main street. The City wanted $38,000 in bribes and wouldn't give me a permit. So instead I set back the fence along the alleyway and made 15 parking spots that I ended up renting to thee business sharing the alleyway with. Making my income $1,500 a month more. Then I put a couple of cargo containers in the back yard and rented on to a flooring company along the alleyway and the other container to a print shop. Their rent was $3.00 per square foot per month. My cargo containers were 150 square feet, wroth $450 a month, but I only charged them $250 per month, making an extra $500 income. With the tenants rent, $1650 per month, this was now a real money maker and no reason any more to flip.

The city tried to black mail me and in turn I screwed them back while making a lot of money i the process.

Oh, when the City issued violation after violation, I let out the recording of the bribes they tried to get me to pay for a permit to relocate my driveway / garage.

I have done a few flips over the years. Unfortunately I seem to spend more than I should because I am NOT a flipper. Flip is a four letter word around here. Most do the pig and lipstick routine.

Did some rehab work for an older gent that flips a lot of houses in the area. I figured I could make a little extra money and learn a thing or two. This man has been doing flips for longer than I have lived.

Well, I did work on the one job and we parted ways. Some examples of why I do not work with him include:

- There was wall board in the kitchen over drywall. He had 1/2" drywall installed over it. Not only did they not attach the rock to the studs, they used 1-1/4" nails so even if they found a stud it wouldn't work.

-He had them cover over the outlets on the wall. Didn't remove them or the power to them. Said he does it all the time and no problems.

-He put 1/4" bead board in a half bath. There was a wall heater in at one time. He removed the heater but left the live wires hanging.

-Drywall not cut tight. Huge gaps. He stuffed them with regular drywall mud, smoothed with a knife and painted. No hot mud, no tape, no sanding.

-Floor busted in living room. Hole thru to the crawlspace. Had a guy come in to put LVP down and had him click over the hole. This wasn't just a spot but big enough that a small person might fit through it.

-Exterior door had leaked in and rotted under the threshold. Nothing sturdy there at all. He used spray foam from a can, cut it level and ran LVP over it all.

-Valley in roof leaked. Shingled over the front side only of the house, never fixed the issue, just smeared some tar and layed over it all.

I kept changing or fixing stuff as I saw it. My name was on the project and I couldn't sleep at night knowing a left some of the things that he called normal procedure.

We parted ways after that project. He said I was too particular to work on his flips. Then he asked me to do some work on his personal condo. I was too busy suddenly.

People do terrible things to their own homes. Watch a Youtube video and suddenly everyone's a plumber or electrician.

So I don't know that a flip would be any different than any other home. Advantage of buying a flip is that the house is likely move-in ready and someone else went through all the hassle.

News flash -

think buyer beware, for everything Jack(s) built.

Thanks all! You sold me on not buying a flip. I think even if you had a good inspector, they can’t see what’s behind the walls and they make that clear on their report. The problem is that flippers somehow pick up the majority of houses these days before they reach the MLS.

Robin, you have given me a great list of things that might be hidden. I think I’m savvy when it comes to houses, but some of your items I hadn’t even considered. Some of what you mentioned, like junctions without boxes, was seen by Robert in his inherited flip.

Plenty I can see that, the flipper is no way going to replace something that doesn’t improve the cosmetics of the house.

Zero, that is interesting. I guess you need to be a certain kind of person to be a flipper :-) Pretty funny some of the examples you listed, like not a big enough hole in the floor for a small person to fall through. Funny unless you own the problems.

Ken, I get the feeling that people like you are few and far between. Of course I mean that in the best way.

GKARL, like when a contractor is quoting a job they typically ask, “how long to you plan to stay here” and base the extent of the work on that. Can imagine if the answer is zero.

...The problem is that flippers somehow pick up the majority of houses these days before they reach the MLS....

I think the days of many folks purchasing a dated but solid home needing cosmetics is mostly gone. A good portion all want shiny and new.

Back when I was working side jobs for a few realtors I would have to paint outside in the winter.

The mortgager was usually an alphabet company that made the seller cover anything outside with paint. Nobody cared if it would stay, they had to do it for the loan to go through.

It was absurd. I would put in my quote and on the invoice that the paint would not last thru the winter and would have to be re-worked when the weather broke.

Some didn't like the wording but I wanted to CYA.