The real title of this thread was supposed to be: Rulers, Society, Dodgeball & RE. But it’s too big.

I have the privilege the other night of watching and occasionally refereeing three hours of dodgeball with a proxy 50 little school kids. Another part of the gymnasium was about the same amount of highschoolers.

That was an interesting experience.

First of all, kids cheat! Holy cow do they cheat!

And one might think that three hours is a long time, but it wasn’t for those kids. It was war!

It was interesting to watch different strategies that kids had to play the game. Some were very aggressive and would run up and grab the ball as soon as possible and try to take out as many people as they could and they were usually some of the first ones to get out. Other ones would let people run up to get the ball and get hit first and then they would just wait in the back for the ball to come to them and like a sniper take out people from the back.

The rulers, a.k.a. the referees had a list of rules that we were to enforce in order to keep the game from devolving into ultimate chaos. We did the best we could, but there was so much activity going on that it was absolutely impossible to “govern “all of it.

When I was simply a spectator, I could see it from a different point of you than when I was a referee. As a spectator, I could watch the cheating even closer and see some of the ones who won the most frequently sheet at the most. OK, fair enough. No harm no foul.

As a referee, it was impossible for me to catch as much cheating as I could as a spectator. However, I did notice that if I caught someone cheating two things would happen, #1 they would put themselves out or 2, they would look around to see if anybody caught them and if no one caught them they would keep playing.

It was interesting to watch the ones who would look around, because sometimes I would keep my eyes focused on them until they looked over to see me and to see my point for them to go sit down. Sometimes it would take 10 or 15 seconds. And they would drop their shoulders and size like oh man I’m out. So I have to wonder if they’re sad that they’re out or they are sad that they got caught.

I would also say that none of the kids in the three hours of games who won the round truly won the round without cheating. In some fashion they broke the rules. Either out of bounds or getting here and claiming it wasn’t a correct hit or getting blatantly hit and lying about it.

Some kids refused to change their strategy and continue getting out. Some kids didn’t want to play at all and would not Do anything other than stand there until they were out.

The kids that took it very seriously did very well, the kids that did not take it very seriously got out quickly.

It was also interesting to watch all the different styles of rulers, I mean referees. Somewhere very aggressive and in your face and wanted to yell at you and somewhere oblivious to what they were even to enforce.

Some kids would come up to me and tell me that they hit a kid and he needs to be out and I could say, I didn’t see it, but if I did he would be out. You can’t enforce what you didn’t catch.

There was a lot that I can take from

watching a large group of middle school age kids play dodgeball and transfer that right over into the real estate business.

For what it’s worth on a Sunday morning.

Thank you for sharing your experience with that.

Some of what I was thinking while slowly reading:

1) Stepping back and taking a look from the outside does give a different view. That is what I was doing during all the craziness the last few years. It was amazing to me to see how many people couldn't see what was going on. I have been trying to learn more in RE this way. I haven't perfected it but I learn more by observing.

2) There is definitely a lot of cheating in the world, to include adults and kids. This would apply to RE as well.

3) People do have different levels of aggressiveness, including in RE. I was thinking about how a persons environment and life education in the home, especially during childhood, would affect this.

4) As far as unable to govern it all, I would say that applies to trying to DIYing everything yourself. It is impossible to get it all done in a timely manner. I am slowly learning this one.

5) It reminded me as well about my post on following the laws to a tee. Even if you generally try to follow the rules, we all as humans have a tendency to break a rule when we feel as though it would benefit us most. You can call it a sin, if you are religious, or can just except the fact that it is being human. Some repent and some don't. I think humans mostly feel bad that we got caught rather than out as it is human nature. However, that can also depend on a persons' upbringing. So if you know the person you may find the answer to that question.

6) Some people seem to really enjoy RE while others may not really enjoy it but only do it because they hope for financial gain. That may vary the length of time that someone is in it.

7) The different styles of rulers, referees, government, mentors, and parenting all make a difference.

8) Some laws really make no since and those are the ones that likely get ignored. Also the ones less likely to be caught will likely get ignored. Seems par for the course.

6 x 6, a few l things I take from it is that the people who wrote the rules weren’t even the ones they’re enforcing the rules. They handed them out that night to the referees and weren’t seen again. And the kids who got caught breaking the rules were OUT and those who did not get caught, won.

Even win one team one over the other, the winning team still celebrated the victory of the last Man standing.

I also saw kids claiming that they got other kids out, when in fact they didn’t. So that can go along the same lines of your typical HOA Ka-ten or nosey neighbor who tries to get everybody else in trouble.

It was very interesting.

Everyone is guilty of error also. The rule makers for putting out the rules and then walking away. The referees for selectively enforcing, Overly forcing, or not enforcing. And the kids who cheated.

LOL - When I was a kid we'd play that on rainy days in the gym for PE. Except we called it "Killball." There were no referrees, or rules, as I recall beyond "throw as hard as you can, and don't get hit. It was a day off for the PE teachers. And the bullies had carte blanch for a day of revenge.

After countless injuries a couple of decades later I heard it was outlawed by the new generation where everyone gets a trophy.

PS - You know HOA's are to protect property values, right? Yet people buy in them and want to live like low life trailer trash. It blows my mind. Our hood is in the $600-650k price range now and yet people will park cars on the front yard or not clean their weeds or even put their garbage cans away until the HOA fines them. It just boghles my mind sometimes.

LTD: When I was a Scoutmaster for 12 years (ending about a decade ago), we used to do the same thing -- we called it "DeathBall" and it was basically no-rules dodgeball in the gym except it didn't count if you hit someone it the head. Mainly because we played with basketballs and I was trying to stay out of trouble.

Parents later found out the name and raised concerns, so we renamed it "D-Ball" and didn't change anything. But renaming it seemed to appease enough parents. :)

Dodgeball seems to have gone out of style for our youth though. These days I bring my Nerf Rival stuff and we shoot each other instead. (Although, we do a sort of "Dodge Ball Rules Nerf War".)

Oh, but the reality is that there was a threat. Ha! Dodgeball with basketballs was fun, I admit, but it was pretty dumb. We injured some youth. We probably got lucky we never broke anyone's jaw.

Just because we got away with it doesn't mean it was a good idea...

If you were to draw a direct parallel with RE, someone would decide that the rules wouldn't be enforced for kids who were less athletic, just the athletic ones. The less athletic kids could break the rules with impunity to help level the playing field.

Yep, we are all still playing dodge ball just the grown-up version called life. The ones you didn't mention, the really smart ones, form a coalition to support each other, encourage, share ideas that work, and those that don't. They bounce new strategies off of each other and call out bad behavior of their friends so they get better. Those coalitions are the ones that usually get better with each game and eventually will win the majority of the time.

Thankfully Jeffrey has created that coalition here that allows us all those benefits. Iron sharpens iron.

HUMMMM well I don't know, I wonder if it's regional or depending upon if its a large school system. In my school I knew almost all the participants pretty well, I didn't see much cheating going on. Oh yeah we might be aggressive that throwing the balls, we used soccer balls, not so much destructive. Cheating actually would look down on by your peers.I can't say it never happened, but I don't remember it being a problem,..I just called a classmate who was pretty athletic and he said the same.

I think what is happened is a lot of things have changed, some of it might be because the aggressiveness of video games where anything goes and can be pretty violent.

Where do I see this in today's society? I noticed in driving around people are a lot less courteous. I have to drive down to New York City once in a while and that's a circus down there. It seems that people can't live without leaning on their horns. I actually don't go to church anymore, but when I did in the last few years back I noticed that people driving out of the parking lot after being somewhat pious in church,.. many would be pretty cutthroat and cutting you off etc.

We played Dodge Ball in High School. (low 70's)

I'll bet the wimpy scared ones still are today.

The last one on the loosing team usually got a Wedgie, too.

Yeah, that's called bullying and, contrary to the beliefs of some, it did not turn them into better people most of the time...

I don't remember playing dodgeball in school. We played it at home with neighbors and there was no cheating.

My memories of games played in PE at school was that the low income, slower learner students not only cheated but they tried to intimidate. The students from families with more income and the students from the acerated learning classes did not cheat.

If the PE teacher would stand and watch, the cheaters stopped cheating, but the teachers wanted to send the students out to play while they went inside. Then it was anything goes.

I am amazed when I look at the things in sports and how they transfer to real life. I sure wish I had parents who were able to help me transfer that knowledge into real life.

That didn't happen to me until I met a drill instructor - they have a way of inspiring you. Yeah that is one way of saying it. (grins)

You are wise to see these transfer points. The question is will you remember to make that transfer at a point in the kid's life when it will stick. My parents, they tried - but I wasn't listening normally.

I was amazed how much my parents learned from the time I was a teenager to the time I was an adult. They didn't know anything at age 12 and they were genesis by the time I was 25. Strange how life changes you.

John,

I was also a Scoutmaster !

NE,

I’ve seen an organized tournament but I hated dodgeball in school. It was usually when the PE teacher did not have a plan and used it as a time filler.

I hated it because the goal was to hurt someone else, “cream them”.

Brad: Exactly. People like NE love that. That is why they liked it so much. That is what they wanted to do. They got to bully or hurt people and then pretend decades later that it made them better men.

The game of dodgeball really sucks when your the main target.

In relation to RE, I wonder if that is how some of the people feel that are constantly being targeted by investors to buy their house?

It may also explain why some investors are more aggressive than others. Where they the bully in dodgeball and have no compassion for those in housing troubles, or were they the target in dodgeball and feel a little guilt for trying to take the opportunity of a bad situation for someone else?