Uninsured tenants
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Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 2:47 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by Jim in O C [CA]) Oct 12, 2023 3:15 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 3:29 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by John... [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 3:32 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 3:38 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 3:40 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 3:47 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 3:52 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 3:55 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 3:56 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 4:02 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 4:05 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 4:06 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 4:07 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 4:11 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 4:12 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 4:15 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 4:17 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 4:17 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 4:19 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 4:24 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 4:29 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 4:33 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 4:36 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 4:37 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 4:38 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 4:40 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 4:41 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 4:42 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 4:44 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Oct 12, 2023 5:52 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 6:05 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 6:05 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 6:28 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 6:29 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 6:31 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 6:34 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 6:34 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 6:35 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 6:37 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 6:40 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Oct 12, 2023 6:40 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 6:42 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 6:44 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 6:45 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 6:45 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Oct 12, 2023 6:46 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 6:48 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 6:50 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 6:50 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Oct 12, 2023 6:50 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 6:53 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 6:55 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 6:57 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 6:58 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by zero [IN]) Oct 12, 2023 7:18 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 7:23 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 7:23 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 7:24 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 7:25 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 7:28 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 7:29 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 7:29 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 7:30 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 7:32 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 7:34 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 7:34 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 7:36 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 7:37 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 7:38 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 7:42 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 7:46 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 7:53 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 8:06 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 8:09 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 12, 2023 9:34 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 10:31 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 12, 2023 10:34 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by Still Learning [NH]) Oct 13, 2023 6:50 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Oct 13, 2023 7:50 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 13, 2023 8:14 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 13, 2023 8:58 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 13, 2023 9:01 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by Nicole [PA]) Oct 13, 2023 10:47 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by TOM [ME]) Oct 13, 2023 2:03 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 13, 2023 2:09 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by RB [TN]) Oct 13, 2023 5:47 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by John... [MI]) Oct 13, 2023 8:27 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 13, 2023 8:54 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by Ken [NY]) Oct 14, 2023 5:10 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 6:12 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 6:13 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 8:02 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 8:25 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 8:27 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 8:30 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 8:35 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 8:40 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 8:43 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 8:46 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 8:48 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 8:54 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 8:59 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 9:04 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 9:07 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 9:08 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 9:11 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 9:11 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 9:12 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 9:14 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 9:16 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 9:17 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Oct 14, 2023 9:19 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 9:22 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 9:24 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 9:24 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 9:25 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 9:27 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 9:27 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 9:29 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 9:30 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 9:37 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 9:38 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Oct 14, 2023 9:43 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 9:48 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by Jason [VA]) Oct 14, 2023 10:00 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 10:01 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 10:03 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 10:07 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 10:08 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 10:10 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 10:11 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 10:12 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 10:12 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 10:14 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 10:14 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Oct 14, 2023 10:15 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 10:37 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 14, 2023 11:11 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by Ken [NY]) Oct 14, 2023 11:59 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Oct 14, 2023 12:39 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Oct 14, 2023 12:42 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by Ken [NY]) Oct 14, 2023 2:13 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Oct 14, 2023 2:44 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by John... [MI]) Oct 16, 2023 9:36 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Oct 16, 2023 9:42 AM
       Uninsured tenants (by Ken [NY]) Oct 16, 2023 2:44 PM
       Uninsured tenants (by John... [MI]) Oct 17, 2023 8:42 AM


Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 2:47 PM
Message:

What has happened when your tenants who don't have health insurance get a big medical bill? Do they tend to ignore it and pay rent first? --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by Jim in O C [CA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 3:15 PM
Message:

They pay rent first because they can stall paying medical bills for months or years. --99.23.xxx.x




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 3:29 PM
Message:

None of my business. I also ignore medical on credit reports. Too convoluted of a system to hold against someone for not paying. --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 3:32 PM
Message:

I'm with NE on this. Same.

--67.209.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 3:38 PM
Message:

Going back a while, I've taken advice of some here and only accepted W2 income so in nearly all cases, they will have employer provided health insurance. But one applicant was the sole employee of a plumber and his (rather suspicious) paystub showed no insurance deduction. So I have been thinking to require tenants to have health insurance

I don't see why medical debt should be treated any different since in the last ten years ACA has been available. They got service and they refuse to pay for it. Not really any different than refusing to pay for a car or pay for rent.

NE, I know you're a smart guy, it's pretty laughable to claim it's a convoluted system for a patient. If you want to get into all the backroom weeds , sure, but the calculations for premiums , deductible,copays are pretty straightforward for anyone with a high school education

--68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 3:40 PM
Message:

I leased a car last month. You want to talk about convoluted calculations... Capitalized cost, rent cost, residual , ... Should I be able to walk away from it because it's too "convoluted"?

--68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 3:47 PM
Message:

You mean the unaffordable care act? You shouldnít have to have insurance just to go to the doctor David. --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 3:52 PM
Message:

At least you get the rental car prices upfront. Itís not like you were given the keys and then a month later you open the bill and your jaw hits the freaking floor --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 3:55 PM
Message:

You don't, I can pay $100-200 cash for an urgent care visit, where the doctor looks at you for 5mins and writes a prescription . If you need an operation, do you think that surgeon making $300-500k should work for free?

Health insurance isn't really different than your paycheck. You want better health coverage, get a better job.

When my dad came to this country as a graduate student and he brought me and my mom over, the first thing he did was enroll us in health insurance (thru the school, not Medicaid or subsidized). Sure enough, within a couple years my mom needed an operation .

Sorry, but I'm just not sympathetic to people who don't bother to get insured. And it's laughable for people who otherwise complain about deadbeats not paying their bills give them a pass on medical bills.

--68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 3:56 PM
Message:

Every insurance has yearly deductible and out of pocket maximum.

You want a lower one, get a PPO instead of a HDHP.

Want lower premiums? Get a better job. --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:02 PM
Message:

Whatís a job? You shouldnít have to have health insurance for doctors at all David. It should be in line with what the market can bare. I have my own reasons for not holding medical against tenants. You do you. Good luck requiring health insurance on self-employed tenants. Or any tenants for that matter. --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:05 PM
Message:

NE , anyone can pay cash for medical care. No one is required to have health insurance to receive medical care. Of course, if the cost for that surgery is $50k, well, you'll probably wish you had insurance

I don't accept self employed or 1099 or tenants. Only W2. Nearly all of my tenants have steady white collar jobs. --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:06 PM
Message:

Youíre missing my point, but Iím not surprised. If all of your tenants have W-2 jobs, then why are you worried about it? --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:07 PM
Message:

Do you want to talk about price gouging? If it canít be paid for out of the common manís wallet, how is that not price gouging? Convoluted and extremely corrupt/broken system. --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:11 PM
Message:

I haven't thought to pay closer attention to their paystubs , to check if they have premiums deducted.

Tinstaafl... NE cmon I know you're smarter than this. Do you expect the surgeon or oncologist to work for peanuts after getting elite training taking decades? Do you expect the best medicines and treatment just to magically appear?

--68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:12 PM
Message:

I expect things to be in line with the market. Yes, 100%. --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:15 PM
Message:

How exactly do you think the prices are inflated above market?

If you stay in network, even when you haven't hit the deductible, your insurance company has negotiated rates with the medical provider. Do you think the insurance company is leaving money on the table? --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:17 PM
Message:

The only way to get better rates... Well, it's similar to how Walmart is able to get the lowest prices with volume negotiation.

I don't think you'll like it NE but you can Google Medicare for all --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:17 PM
Message:

Just the fact that you have to have the insurance alone proves that it is inflated. --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:19 PM
Message:

How much do you think is a fair price for

- labor and delivery

- hip replacement

- kidney transplant

- chemotherapy

--68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:24 PM
Message:

Whatever the average family can afford paying cash. --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:29 PM
Message:

NE you know better than this. There are three numbers that determine pricing of any product or service

1) the actual cost to make or provide the product

2) the amount the market is willing to pay

For medical procedures 1 will exceed 2 , in many cases by orders of magnitude

A hip replacement costs $30-50k, a kidney transplant $500k. My wife's last birth $20k. The average American has $700 in the bank.

--68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:33 PM
Message:

How naÔve can you be? Government subsidies. Pharmaceutical company kickbacks. Welfare. Unnecessary elective surgeries paid for with tax dollars. And you donít think their prices are inflated? The environment alone is ripe for it. Not to mention the whole scamdemic fiasco the last few years. Yes, I have and will always ignore medical bills on prospective tenants credit reports. --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:36 PM
Message:

So, you think because the average American has $700 in savings, that's what it should cost for a kidney transplant?

Even the socialists would think you're crazy --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:37 PM
Message:

Also, your number two is wrong. It is not what the market pays. Thatís what the insurance companies and medical industry controls. --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:38 PM
Message:

I think there are many things wrong with our nation David. I think $700 in the bank is just as wrong as $500,000 for a heart transplant. Everything is out of whack. --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:40 PM
Message:

Wrong NE, $500k is for kidney. A heart transplant runs a cool $1.7mil --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:41 PM
Message:

Yeah, exactly. --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:42 PM
Message:

I would gladly ignore that personís medical record if everything else checked out. He certainly doesnít need a colonoscopy right his heart transplant. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 4:44 PM
Message:

Real value versus insured value are two different things to different things. --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 5:52 PM
Message:

Loving the lesson in economics and capitalism.

"... My wife's last birth $20k. The average American has $700 in the bank....."

Note to self: never have kids and don't be average.

"There are three numbers that determine pricing of any product or service"

I only saw 2 numbers. What is the 3rd?

--73.190.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:05 PM
Message:

6 x 6, Iím not sure what any lesson any of us can get here about economics and capitalism from the medical industry. They donít play by the same rules that we do. They are an insurance driven industry, essentially a universe of its own. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:05 PM
Message:

Except that: the bigger you are, the more you can make the rules. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:28 PM
Message:

if you go into a nice restaurant, there is a menu where you know how much that Surf and turf is going to cost you.

How do you learn how much something cost in an ER visit? You wait and hope. Maybe the landlording industry should adopt that model the government fixed. We would get all sorts of beat up. Instead politicians brag out fixing health care. The general public just gets ripped off in such a complex manner that there are medical coder professionals.

Accepted at the hospital, not accepted for landlords --24.101.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:29 PM
Message:

NE you clearly don't understand the point of insurance. Most people won't ever need a transplant in their life. Most people won't need chemotherapy or a hip replacement. So there's no point to price them so average American can pay with cash

The point of insurance is to take into account the risk of needing expensive treatments and spread it throughout a large pool. --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:31 PM
Message:

David, read Rayís post. He understands it. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:34 PM
Message:

David, Iíve studied my butt off for years regarding real estate and working on these properties. I am a small timer, but I guarantee I have more real estate debt tied up in my portfolio than doctors do in their student loans. Where is my insurance program so I can jack my rents up to whatever I want them to be? Maybe make some donations to some politician and tie it into the affordable housing crisis. Or maybe for the children. That always seems to work. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:34 PM
Message:

Ray,

Not a single one of us, if we or our kid needed emergency treatment, a transplant, or chemotherapy are going to price shop for Dr Nick from the Simpsons. Insurance or not, youre going to choose based on quality.

Besides for the big ticket items, the cost will blow past your deductible and OOPmax so it won't make a difference --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:35 PM
Message:

"Where is my insurance program so I can jack my rents up to whatever I want them to be? " you said it over and over, it'thatz why you have M2M you can jack it up to whatever the market will bare

--68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:37 PM
Message:

Keep in mind, insurance has already negotiated with in network providers.

No one is negotiating with you on behalf of tenants! --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:40 PM
Message:

In regards to the shopping around for Dr. Nick from the Simpsons, you do know that different insurance policies are going to afford someone different care right? So the rich are deserving of better healthcare than the poor? If costs were in line with reality the poor manís $700 in his savings account would be equal to the rich manís $700. Affording them both the same level of care. Youíll never convince me that the system is not corrupt. So another reason why I ignore medical collections on credit reports. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:40 PM
Message:

NE, I guess I haven't quite figured out economics and capitalism.

Perhaps medical insurance is for those living in fear?

--73.190.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:42 PM
Message:

Youíre absolutely right, no one is negotiating with me on behalf of my tenants. But how many cities in this country negotiate with your tenants against you? Rent control? The prices can go sky high in the medical industry, but not in the housing industry. HmmmmÖ. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:44 PM
Message:

6 x 6, I donít think that itís for people living in fear. I think the system was taken control of long ago and thatís why we have the insurance. At this point, itís a necessary evil. Thereís plenty of cost-sharing programs out there, I belong to one myself. The Amish even do it, they donít have insurance. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:45 PM
Message:

"The prices can go sky high in the medical industry," again that's not true as your insurance has negotiated with them

"So the rich are deserving of better healthcare than the poor" in a capitalist system, yes . That's why we have insurance, to spread the risk of large expenses --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:45 PM
Message:

6 x 6, you have to realize, medical insurance is a relatively new idea in the history of medicine. It wasnít too long ago that then we would trade chickens are eggs for the doctorís services. In balance with the common man. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:46 PM
Message:

"...Not a single one of us, if we or our kid needed emergency treatment, a transplant, or chemotherapy are going to price shop for Dr Nick from the Simpsons."

Maybe that's part of the problem? --73.190.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:48 PM
Message:

I disagree when it comes to someoneís health, dude. Seriously? The rich deserve better healthcare than the poor? Not talking about socialized free medicine, either. Iím talking about what the common man can pay out of his pocket.

Does a rich manís truck deserve to be fixed better than a poor manís truck? Does a Rich manís roof deserve to be fixed better than a poor manís roof? Smoking some of Hunterís crack. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:50 PM
Message:

If you are supposed to pay for something, wouldn't it be nice to get a rough idea what it was going to cost you in advance?

No system like that exist in the medical field.

That same procedure can be written up multiple ways to get you a different cost - and as a consumer, we don't have any say in it.

I feel sorry for lower income folks that can be hurt that much more by doing nothing at all. --24.101.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:50 PM
Message:

"Iím talking about what the common man can pay out of his pocket."

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs, karl marx --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:50 PM
Message:

I like the Amish.

Are cost sharing programs local? --73.190.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:53 PM
Message:

Ray, of course it would be good to have upfront prices, just won't make a difference in people's choices for big ticket items --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:55 PM
Message:

Not surprised. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:57 PM
Message:

If we truly cared for one another, we would have a much better medical expense system in place in this country than we do now. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 6:58 PM
Message:

Well NE tell us, what is a fair price for surgeon and hospital to charge for a kidney transplant? For a hip replacement? For the average American who makes $50k a year? --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:18 PM
Message:

I have no dog in this fight except for this tidbit.

My mother-in-law got cancer. She worked a job in healthcare where they would pay you $1.00 more an hour if you didn't take the insurance. She opted for that.

Well she had to have the surgery, chemo, radiation, blah blah blah. My spouse started calling the billing people. Explained what was going on. MIL made peanuts, had nothing but a broke down car and couldn't pay.

Well every single place dropped her bill. Some by 95% because she wasn't insured.

I am happy for her, but we worked it up and it would have cost ME more to have the same stuff after the insurance company paid, and I paid premiums for the coverage.

I am over-insured, but it is a racket at best. --107.147.xx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:23 PM
Message:

David, thatís very simple. Whatever the average man can afford within the economy. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:23 PM
Message:

Zero, who do you think is going to pay to make up what the hospital lost on your MIL and others who broke without insurance? The rest of us. You're right it's a racket but only in the sense that people aren't forced to pay and get discount or free treatment --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:24 PM
Message:

Again, the average man or woman will not need a transplant or major surgery. That's the point of insurance!! --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:25 PM
Message:

David, I know youíre a wizard in all things, but what would happen tomorrow at

if medical insurance industry was done away with? The doctors, the colleges, the pharmaceutical companies, the medical suppliers, the hospitals, they would all adjust their prices down to match the true economy --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:28 PM
Message:

David, zeroís mother didnít even cause a blip on their radar. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:29 PM
Message:

Seriously ne?

If there was no medical insurance companies, no one would become surgeons . No r&d from big pharma for life saving treatment. No one would invest in modern hospitals

--68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:29 PM
Message:

No producer in a free market would voluntary adjust their prices below their cost. They would go out of business!!!!! --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:30 PM
Message:

NE I think you're a closet socialist. It's okay, I won't judge --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:32 PM
Message:

You would probably see the quality of care go up. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:34 PM
Message:

Kind of tough to trust an industry that has a vested interest in keeping people sick --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:34 PM
Message:

Hahahaha, you think if people were paid less... They would do better work. Hahaha omg Marx would think you're crazy --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:36 PM
Message:

You donít think people would still be surgeons, sure they would. The ones who really cared about healing people. I know you are a systems guy and canít really think outside of them, but thereís different possibilities. So what are you gonna do David? Not rent to people who donít have medical insurance? Foolish. I would say it would be in a landlord best interest to in fact RENT to people that have medical collections. The more the merrier if everything else checks out. Itís not like theyíre gonna qualify for a mortgage anytime soon. Plus, we know thereís landlords out there like you who wonít rent to them --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:37 PM
Message:

If you want to be suspicious of the insurace-big pharma-medical complex, fine I'm there with you. But don't pretend that you can get something for less than it costs to make. --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:38 PM
Message:

"You donít think people would still be surgeons, sure they would. The ones who really cared about healing people" ahahhaha

Hahahahaha

Just like there will be landlords with rent control, the ones who care about putting a roof over people's heads

Hahahahahahahahaaha

Hahhahahaha --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:42 PM
Message:

The inflated costs you mean? --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:46 PM
Message:

don't you think that when the deductible is $4k and the insurance company has to fork out $50k for hip replacement, they will have negotiated it down to the lowest? --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 7:53 PM
Message:

Of course they do, wouldnít you? But why the middle man? Of course this is all hypothetical and obviously wonít go away now. Doesnít mean it the best we can do though. Too many moving parts, too many hands in the pot. Thatís why medical collections are so common. --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 8:06 PM
Message:

"But why the middle man? "

NE I don't know if you're being argumentive for the thrill of it, but the point of medical insurance is no different than car insurance or home insurance or life insurance or liability insurance. It's to pool the risks of a large number of customers --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 8:09 PM
Message:

Medical debt is no different than student loans debt or car debt or credit card debt. You got a service you didn't pay for it. It's not something to be proud of.

And before you say medical too much for average american, my dad was a penniless foreign graduate student, but my mom got surgery because of insurance and didn't burden us financially --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 9:34 PM
Message:

Medical debt is absolutely different than those other debts. A person has no clue the costs beforehand. If the people with the medical debts were a little more proactive getting them whittled down before they went to collections like Zeroís Mom, they most likely wouldnít have ended up on their credit report. But thatís a different story. Ask me how I know?

AnywayÖ. Maybe next we can discuss the eduction system and how weíd be better off going back to the one room schoolhouses. Or dissolving the media? Oh the dreams we can dream. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 10:31 PM
Message:

Again, knowing the costs would be great, but few people would act on them because the insurance companies would have done negotiations and the big items would be above the deductible so it would be pointless for patient to shop around.

A responsible person would have insurance (choosing PPO or HDHP based on their health) and be cognizant of possible health expenses , savings a HSA with HDHp for example.

Not paying medical debt means the costs get passed onto others it's no different than your deadbeat tenant not paying rent.

--68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 12, 2023 10:34 PM
Message:

As for education, I'd be on board with John Stossel, giving parents a voucher to let their kids choose any school to attend , public private parochial, on the condition that each school must accept the voucher as full payment for tuition, not just a subsidy.

After all, how can the average American afford $40k a year private school --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by Still Learning [NH]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2023 6:50 AM
Message:

I think most would pay rent which is why you pull credit and see medical debt without evictions for some applicants.

Things happen even with insurance. My first child was a preemie. I was rushed to a Boston hospital and lay on bed rest for a few weeks. My child was born there and stayed about 3 weeks before being transferred to a local community hospital in NH. Total hospital stay between us was 7 weeks. I was a public school teacher with 100% maternity coverage. I also had my husbands as secondary coverage. However due to 2 insurance debacles, I had no out of state coverage from my teacherís policy and no coverage from my husbands. BC&BS stopped the reciprocity agreement with out of state and didnít start the out of area plan for 6 months when one plan should have ended at 11:59 with the next starting at 12:00. He was born during that time and I apparently had no out of state coverage. To boot, my husbandís company somehow stopped our insurance for a month by mistake and he was born during that month. The hospital bill was paid in full but every department at the Boston hospital billed separately. Insurance wouldnít pay in full even though they should have and ultimately I had to convince every group to write off 30% of their bill and take the payment amount BC&BS mailed me as payment in full. 30 years ago the total amount was 100k. It took a year and a lot of heartburn but they all did. Someone else without the drive to overturn every stone and fight would have ended up paying, with medical debt or bankruptcy. --73.159.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2023 7:50 AM
Message:

Another reminder to not have children. --73.190.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2023 8:14 AM
Message:

Well David, you canít truly believe that about school vouchers. Because in that case, the poor kid could attend the same school as the rich kid. And we know you donít want that medically. Because not only are the rich and the poor segregated medically in America through quality of insurance policies, they are also segregated in America through zoning and taxing districts. We know you donít like zoning either. So if you want your kid to go to a better school, get a better job David. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2023 8:58 AM
Message:

I don't have a dog in the school funding game. Im just playing along with the voucher folks and pointing out the absurdity of $7000 vouchers when tuition costs $30-40k.

I do find it wasteful that public school funding doesn't have a limit on the number of kids you get to send to school for free. Pop out six kids? No problemo, the taxpayer will cover it!

Still learning, I don't doubt that insurance companies and hospitals make mistakes. But so do any number of other companies. It's the responsibility of the individual to sort things not. Not throw up their hands and say, well I'm not paying it. I don't want that kind of tenant that can't deal with adversity in life.

--68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2023 9:01 AM
Message:

If you get some qualified tenants who donít have medical insurance, send them my way. Especially with todays abysmal tenant pool. --174.240.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2023 10:47 AM
Message:

I didn't read through the entire back and forth here but am responding to David stating it's basically straight forward.

Have you ever dealt with the medical systems for older, sickly people who have the need for continual medical care?

Time to leave the hospital so I have the hospital arrange for the ambulance transport. Bill is over $600 for about a 3 mile drive. Insurance pays $200 something. I get a bill for $200 something. I send the check. Another statement comes out indicating both payments but $200 something from somewhere is reversed (I have no idea what that means). Another statement comes (now understand these are all approximately 30 days apart) with a patient balance of $33. I ignore because I am not dealing with it and the first $600 bill is about $500 over charge. finally the collection calls come and I tell them don't call again ... sue him .... I'm not paying. I paid the "final bill". I still get phone calls but I ignore them. Same patient back to the hospital a couple months later. At discharge I arrange the ambulance transport myself through the local company that I've been using for several years. $89.

2023 a bill comes from the doctor's office. Medicare denied a claim for covid shot in 2021. Why you ask? Because the bill wasn't submitted until early 2023 and was denied because it wasn't filed timely.

Patient dies. Deductibles were long met before the final bills. No copays and secondary insurance covers every penny. Two years later a bill comes for $200 something. I ignore. Next month it comes again and I call ever so politely to say that insurance should have covered this, please recheck. The very nice lady assures me she'll get it taken care of. Next month same bill. Repeat of me being ever so nice and the lady on the phone apologizing and assuring me it will be taken care of. Next month same bill. I read the very fine print at the bottom and it seems the denial was because this bill wasn't submitted until more than a year after patient passed away. I call again. Repeat of the so polite conversations with me now relaying what I should have read the first month and she should have also. Next month, same bill. I find the head of the hospital's e-mail. I e-mail that the bill won't be paid and sue the dead patient because I'm not paying. Take the payment out of the individual's pay check who didn't timely submit the bill and if it's the entire department take it out of their budget. I get a phone call from someone that same day that it will be taken care of. I assume so as I never heard anything again.

Point of this babbling is if you have A LOT of medical bill that are coming in constantly, you need to check and double check. Guess what? When you have the massive bills coming through you don't feel good and it takes months to straighten it out....and these are people who after their deductibles should owe $0.00 but some slip through the cracks and need dealt with... and that is tiresome, burdensome and frustrating over and over for months at a time on the same thing due to someone else's error.

My three scenarios were three different patients - same huge medical system - different supplemental plans. --98.237.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by TOM [ME]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2023 2:03 PM
Message:

Get a room! --74.75.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2023 2:09 PM
Message:

Relax Tom. Itís a ďdiscussionĒ forum and people get so up tight when they get heated. --174.240.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by RB [TN]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2023 5:47 PM
Message:

Always a fun read, NE.

Keep up the good work. --24.183.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2023 8:27 PM
Message:

David, I actually agree with many things you say here, but I have to disagree on this one:

"Medical debt is no different than student loans debt or car debt or credit card debt. You got a service you didn't pay for it."

They are very different to me. How? Because going into student loan debt, car debt, or credit card debt are all a CHOICE. You make a decision to live outside of your current means with the hope that it works out.

Medical debt often comes without a choice (provided that you want to live or, at least, survive in a way that allows you live a life). People have medical debt that they can't pay sometimes because they had an emergency -- or cancer -- for things completely outside of their control. (Sometimes not, sure, but often there were very few "choices" involved.)

That is why, to me, medical debt is VERY different from the other types that you listed. People can end up with very significant medical debt from no fault of their own.

--67.209.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 13, 2023 8:54 PM
Message:

Outside of a few urban areas, you need a reliable car to get to work. you need a bachelor's degree for a decent paying job

Sure you can get by without them, but so did our ancestors get by without advanced modern medical treatments. Life won't be fun without chemo , so neither is taking a bus an hour to work when driving car takes ten minutes, or flipping burgers .

ACA made it so that there's a ceiling on out of pocket expenses and coverage can't be denied for preexisting conditions. A responsible person will have insurance and save up money for deductible and OOP just like a responsible person saves up for college and a car.

Now, part of my comments are serious, I do believe people have a responsibility to pay medical debts. But part of my comments are also devils advocate, as pointing out how common complaints about free loaders apply justly to people not paying medical bills. There is an obvious solution,one that many , if not most, advanced economies have figured out. You guys probably won't like it , just Google Medicare for all.

Oh as for me, I just got a new job , and this company has a very unique policy on insurance. They offer the same policies (cheap HDHP, better HDHP, and PPO) to all employees but the more you make, the higher your employee premium. For cheap HDHP, if you make less than $60k you pay $0, while if you make more than $200k you pay $100 per pay period. For PP0 it might be 3 or 4x difference.

--68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 5:10 AM
Message:

You do not need a bachelors degree for a decent paying job,i dont have one,many of my friends dont have one and make 100k a year or better.A responsible person will save for college? so you expect a 15 year old to be saving for college? --74.77.xx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 6:12 AM
Message:

Shrug. College , no college. Modern medical care, no modern medical care. Can't afford it, get a loan. Doesn't make any difference to me what others choose. I happen I find it easier to get a nice job with a college degree.

Forgiving students loans isn't any different than forgiving medical debt. You and I are paying when others don't pay their medical bills --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 6:13 AM
Message:

I don't expect a 15 year to save for college. I expect their parents to save for college. Just like I expect their parents to save for medical care. --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 8:02 AM
Message:

Employee mindset. That makes things make a lot more sense now. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 8:25 AM
Message:

I get paid six figures to work from home in my PJs , probably put in 2-3hours a day. I don't care if the work gets done , or if I get fired since I have my rental income. Is that the kind of employee mindset you mean?

. --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 8:27 AM
Message:

Oh and I get employer subsidized health insurance PPO for $300 month including kids --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 8:30 AM
Message:

Doesnít mean you still donít have an employee mindset. Get good grades so you can go to a good college and get a good job with good benefits is an employee mindset.

Quit your job, sell your assets and donate your money to charity. Then rebuild your life from zero. Then you can come back and tell me how much you think medical expenses and the costs of college degrees are in line with reality. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 8:35 AM
Message:

My parents saved for me to goto college. I save for my kids medical care and for them to goto college. Why shouldn't I expect others to do the same?

But hey, if you want to forgive student loans and implement Medicare for all, I'm on board your side Į --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 8:40 AM
Message:

My parents gave me nothing. Did it all myself. I donít want to forgive student loans at all, I worked my a$$ off to pay back every dime. You signed it, you pay it. But unlike medical, at least you knew the expense of college beforehand. If I knew then what I know now, I never even wouldíve went. At least you have the option to choose between community college and university. Enslavement through education via debt Is never a good choice. Especially when youíre 17 and 18 years old and donít know any better. When youíre sold an idea. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 8:43 AM
Message:

And to gray your hair a little more this morning David, if you got rid of government subsidizes student loans, youíd see college tuition plummet back in line with reality pretty quick too. Medical and education has been hijacked by some sinister middlemen. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 8:46 AM
Message:

You have a choice beforehand to get insurance, to save for the deductible. To get a better job to make more money and get better insurance

Knowing cost up front will not affect anything as insurance company has already negotiated the cost, even if you don't hit deductible, you're still paying negotiated cost.

--68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 8:48 AM
Message:

Oh NE I'm totally in line with letting college education costs fall to earth . There's no need for people to have a $70k/yr private college education

But if you try the same with eliminating health insurance, well, say good bye to 99% of modern medicine. No hip replacement. No transplants. No chemo. No labor and delivery --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 8:54 AM
Message:

I disagree. Just like education, thereís no reason that a heart transplant needs to be $1.7 million. Whatís good for the goose is good for the gander. So many discussions on here outside of the medical industry from rent prices and contractor prices and material costs, housing prices. Always revolve around what the market is willing to pay. But for some reason medical gets to be in itís own universe.

Your path to a good insurance policy is not freedom minded. It is Employee minded. It is a degree of dependency on someone else. That is not what the entrepreneur does. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 8:59 AM
Message:

And David, Iím not saying that you are wrong for Having a job, so please donít misunderstand me. You have found one that is very minimal of time with very good money and handles your health insurance. I know lots of people that have their job who can retire but just do it still for the health insurance. Which basically proves my point that medical costs are way out of line with reality. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:04 AM
Message:

And NE I'm on board with you. Health care should not be tied to employment. My employer charges $50/month to $400/month for PPO based on income. Now apply that to every american.for more details , Google Medicare for all

A heart transplants costs money because, well, it does? --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:07 AM
Message:

Should the heart surgeon not be paid $700k? Should the anesthesiologist not be paid $500k ? Should the nurses not be paid $100k each? If you want to pay them less, well I'm on board. But just like with rent control, you impose price cap and you get shortages. --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:08 AM
Message:

Their annual income should be based on what the market can bear. A roof cost $500 a square, because thatís what the market will pay. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:11 AM
Message:

But I donít expect it to ever change. With padded bills and insurance payout snafus, I have to ignore medical collections on credit reports. Maybe Iíll have to start looking at a Noring student loan debt if they were signed for when the kid was 18 or 19 years old and didnít know any better. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:11 AM
Message:

"the market" is what the negotiation between insurance company and hospitals and medical centers is.

Tell me NE what do you think a fair salary for a heart surgeon or anesthesiologist should be? --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:12 AM
Message:

Thatís not a real market. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:14 AM
Message:

Sure it is, insurance companies have every incentive to pay as little as possible for a heart transplant --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:16 AM
Message:

I donít know what they should be paid and any number that I were to throw out would be hypothetical. In the real market, you can go to a crappy mechanic or you can go to an excellent mechanic And you pay their costs out of your wallet. Personally, I go to different mechanics for different reasons. With an industry thatís been hijacked by insurance companies and you yourself admitting that someone with a better policy deserves better healthcare, segregating the rich and the poor. How can I take their debt collections seriously? --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:17 AM
Message:

Exactly David, and these insurance companies being in the middle have forced the inflation of these prices to the moon man. Itís not that hard to see. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:19 AM
Message:

NE, you seem to think a lot like I do about some things. That said, let me ask you, do you think there was no benefit at all to go to college?

I never went myself, but can't help but constantly wonder if I have missed something. --73.190.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:22 AM
Message:

I had one college course that was labor & production or something like that that was definitely impactful to this day with running costs on properties and remodels, etc. A lot of them I donít even remember. I mailed my degree To my mother several years ago because I didnít want it anymore and she called me and she thought something was wrong. I said no, I just have no need for it anymore thought you might like it. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:24 AM
Message:

Lol if you get into a car accident your car insurance

If you want to eliminate insurance overhead and profit, Google Medicare for all --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:24 AM
Message:

6 x 6, I remember one key phrase that the professor in that class said one time that helps me to this day. I was in college for culinary arts and when we were talking about taking raw product and developing recipes, etc. He said the basic idea here is that you buy something, you change it, and you resell it. And thatís still what I do to this day and I hear that phrase in my mind often. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:25 AM
Message:

Oh yes David, car insurance. That is for catastrophic damage. You donít need car insurance to go get your brakes done. You donít need car insurance to go get an oil change. You donít even get to use car insurance if you have to put a new transmission or engine in your car. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:27 AM
Message:

But 6x6, in all those college courses, none of them taught me to be an entrepreneur. They all taught me how to be a good employee. It wasnít until a few years after college when I was working one day and I looked around the kitchen and I said you know what, if you removed all of this equipment out of the kitchen itís not much different than being inside of a prison. And that started my journey. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:27 AM
Message:

You don't consider chemotherapy to be catastrophic damage? Heart transplant to be catastrophic damage? Hip replacement to be catastrophic Damage? --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:29 AM
Message:

Of course I do. David. I also expect that if I hit a deer tonight in my pick up truck and I donít have full coverage that I can pay out-of-pocket to get it fixed or buy another one out of pocket. Neither of us are ever going to convince the other one to change their mind. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:30 AM
Message:

Hereís another idea to gray the rest of your hair David. If you got rid of medical insurance, not only would you see the prices overall come down in the medical industry, you would probably see the health of the American individual get better as well. We would have an actual incentive to stay healthy. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:37 AM
Message:

If you got rid of health insurance, and people could only get what they can pay out of pocket, then no one but the wealthy will afford anything above a simple doctor visit

The whole point of insurance is to cover very unlikely but very expensive events. I don't have to change your mind, I m just pointing out how wrong you are --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:38 AM
Message:

The cost of a heart transplant will never be lower than seven figures, much less lower than six figures. You will simply put it out of reach for anyone but the wealthy --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:43 AM
Message:

Thank you, NE, thank you. --73.190.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 9:48 AM
Message:

If you had no health insurance nationally, absolutely people would be able to afford the cost. The industry would have no choice but to regulate itself. I donít understand how you can read all about economics and markets on here year after year after year, but make endless exceptions for the medical industry. Itís no different dude. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 10:00 AM
Message:

I wish I had this kind of free time on my hands, not reading any of it. --172.56.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 10:01 AM
Message:

I fully understand the economics, I don't think you do at all. If your cost to make a product or perform a service exceeds what people are willing or able to pay, then theres no market, and you go out of business

How exactly do you plan to pay for a transplant for your child if there's no health insurance? Do you expect the surgeon and anesthesiologist to work for $50k a year? How much do you think the price of a transplant will drop to? The average American couldn't afford $10k much less $100k --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 10:03 AM
Message:

Medical insurance is necessary, because we made it that way. Itís a big business. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 10:07 AM
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Again, tell me, how do you plan to get the cost of a heart transplant affordable for the average American without insurance? --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 10:08 AM
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I told you 50 times. Get rid of medical insurance and let the industry regulate. Youíre not gonna get medical insurance backed pricing without medical insurance. Do you not see the correlation? --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 10:10 AM
Message:

Of course itís not going to happen though. Our country is too far down the healthcare rabbit hole to ever pull out of it. And thereís too many people getting extremely rich off of it. Relax Jason, I know itís not your typical kumbaya. Itís a debate of ideas. Not for most people to get involved in anyways. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 10:11 AM
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And the industry will find that the cost will be $1million and only the rich can afford it. What the ? --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 10:12 AM
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You can have the most competitive and free market but the price will never go below the cost to produce. Not sure how you can't understand that --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 10:12 AM
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Incorrect. Then that doctor goes out of business and the one who finds out how to provide it to what the market will bear becomes the best in business. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 10:14 AM
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Maybe I should sell everything and become a doctor. Even if I went to a crappy college, and I still get a degree, I can still be a doctor, right? There isnít even any incentive for me to be the best. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 10:14 AM
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That's not how markets work. Just because there is a demand for something, doesn't mean magically a producer can make it at that price. The price will never ever go below what it costs to make

You don't seem to even understand simple economics --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by David [MI]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 10:15 AM
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"There isnít even any incentive for me to be the best."

I think you're confused. Why wouldn't a heart surgeon be incentive by $700k salary to be best? --68.56.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 10:37 AM
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David, remember when the hospitals were all ďoverwhelmedĒ with an ďunprecedentedĒ number of patients during the scamdemic? I do. Patients who for the most part had their bills paid by insurance. Yet these hospitals received billion dollars in stimulus bail out money? I wonder how much of those billions were passed off to customers in the form of reduced costs? Haha, ya I didnít think so. Talk about having your cake and eating it too! No corruption here. I bet I could make a little side business selling bumper stickers: ďMedical collections is not real debt!Ē Hahaha --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 11:11 AM
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At the end of the day David, when itís applied to a landlord/tenant situation, I think it doesnít matter. You and I have made it pretty clear that it would be an opinion and perspective based decision. That will always blur the lines of clear screening practices. You seem to see it as a just system, so by all means, use it to disqualify good prospects. I see it as a broken and UNFIXABLE system, so no way would I use those debts to deny and otherwise 5 star well screened prospect. I donít think itís a good representation of their overall position in life. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 11:59 AM
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6x6 I will tell you what i got from college and i graduated in 1985.I was taught to be an employee which didnt apply because when i gratuated i saw the jobs my friends got and said no way,i never worked for anyone again except my dad for 6 months.What i got was lots of great memories of the classes and the parties in the dorms and in town and a number of friends i am still in touch with to this day but nothing in terms of how to make money --74.77.xx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 12:39 PM
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Thank you, Ken, very much. --73.190.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 12:42 PM
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I'm betting that I learn more on this forum than I ever would have in college. This post has been very educational. Thank you David. --73.190.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 2:13 PM
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6x6 as an example of what you dont learn in college, I am teaching a young family member the rental and flipping business,he has a 4 year business degree and a good job,personally i think he could have done the job itself out of high school but they hand out the jobs only to people with degrees so it cuts down on the interviews and so if something goes wrng the interviewers can say well he had a degree rather than putting there neck on the line.I aske him one day did they teach you any of this at college? he said no not at all.He is learning how to evaluate tenants,evaluate a deal,evaluate employees etc all pretty much from scratch.Occasionally i ask him did you learn any of this at college and the answer is always no --74.77.xx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Oct 14, 2023 2:44 PM
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Thank you Ken for the further examples. --73.190.xxx.xxx




Uninsured tenants (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2023 9:36 AM
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NE wrote: "Patients who for the most part had their bills paid by insurance. "

If you think that most of the people in hospitals during the height of Covid were having their expenses paid for in full by insurance, then you are delusional. That's simply not what happened.

I say this as a person who works directly with multiple healthcare facilities doing their IT. They were over-full during Covid (which, again, was not a "scam") and the vast majority of those cases were NOT fully covered (and many, many not even partially covered) by insurance.

What you are saying is simply not reality.

--67.209.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2023 9:42 AM
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Iím absolutely not going down that rabbit hole with you John. 50% or more of the population know it was a scam. --24.152.xxx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Oct 16, 2023 2:44 PM
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I think the govt was paying the bills during covid, i spent 8 days in the hospital and 30 days home on oxygen,i had already gotten rid of covid before i went in the hospital but oxygen levels were low but everyone suited up anyway,i assumed so they could all get paid as if i still had covid, i never got a bill for a deductable or anything else so i doubt my insurance company paid it or i would have been billed at least for the deductible. the hospital was not full,an entire wing was closed because they got rid of all the nurses who refused to get a shot so they artificially created a problem --74.77.xx.xx




Uninsured tenants (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Oct 17, 2023 8:42 AM
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NE: You seem to have ignored the important part of that reply. It wasn't about whether or not it was a scam. It was about your statement that all of the patients had their bills paid by insurance. THAT is what the important part of that discussion was. --67.209.xxx.xx





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