fire inspection
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fire inspection (by 6x6 [TN]) Aug 15, 2023 9:04 PM
       fire inspection (by Jason [VA]) Aug 15, 2023 9:13 PM
       fire inspection (by Small potatoes [NY]) Aug 15, 2023 10:11 PM
       fire inspection (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Aug 15, 2023 10:24 PM
       fire inspection (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Aug 15, 2023 10:24 PM
       fire inspection (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Aug 15, 2023 10:31 PM
       fire inspection (by Oreo [WI]) Aug 16, 2023 2:48 AM
       fire inspection (by Vee [OH]) Aug 16, 2023 7:05 AM
       fire inspection (by S i d [MO]) Aug 16, 2023 8:28 AM
       fire inspection (by Ken [NY]) Aug 16, 2023 8:36 AM
       fire inspection (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Aug 16, 2023 8:41 AM
       fire inspection (by zero [IN]) Aug 16, 2023 9:23 AM
       fire inspection (by David [MI]) Aug 16, 2023 9:43 AM
       fire inspection (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Aug 16, 2023 9:56 AM
       fire inspection (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Aug 16, 2023 9:56 AM
       fire inspection (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Aug 16, 2023 10:55 AM
       fire inspection (by Jim in O C [CA]) Aug 16, 2023 11:35 AM
       fire inspection (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Aug 16, 2023 11:41 AM
       fire inspection (by 6x6 [TN]) Aug 16, 2023 5:50 PM
       fire inspection (by Ken [NY]) Aug 16, 2023 7:29 PM
       fire inspection (by 6x6 [TN]) Aug 16, 2023 9:09 PM
       fire inspection (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Aug 16, 2023 9:21 PM
       fire inspection (by Robert J [CA]) Aug 16, 2023 11:39 PM
       fire inspection (by Busy [WI]) Aug 17, 2023 10:53 AM
       fire inspection (by zero [IN]) Aug 20, 2023 3:45 PM
       fire inspection (by plenty [MO]) Aug 20, 2023 5:58 PM
       fire inspection (by wmh [NC]) Aug 20, 2023 7:24 PM
       fire inspection (by zero [IN]) Aug 21, 2023 6:47 AM
       fire inspection (by Hoosier [IN]) Aug 21, 2023 12:04 PM
       fire inspection (by 6x6 [TN]) Aug 21, 2023 4:45 PM


fire inspection (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2023 9:04 PM
Message:

I am nearing the end of my major rehab and am to the point of doing the fine details. I am going to install a fire extinguisher and some smoke detectors. I was trying to determine where the best places would be in the house to install these. I got to thinking about it and thought that the best approach that I could take is to have some firemen come look at the house and give me pointers. I also wanted them to look things over to be sure that there were no other things to consider.

I reached out to the fire department for this area and asked them if they would come look at the house and give me pointers. The fireman said that they would come out and do what they consider a fire safety inspection and give me guidance. I made a list on my phone of questions that I wanted to ask. The fire captain at the fire house set up a scheduled time for us to meet, barring they didn't have any emergencies.

The big fire truck rolled in at the exact time. I was hoping they would bring the big truck. There was 2 fireman. They introduced themselves and came in to look things over. I told them the general idea of what I was inquiring of. They asked me a few questions about some of the house structure to make some assessments.

They mentioned a lot of things that I never knew about. It made me rethink about where my smoke detectors were in my own house. I will share what I learned here, the best I can, for those who may be interested.

One thing I learned, they said that newer houses actually burn a lot faster then older homes. They said that the older homes burn a lot hotter because of all the wood but they burn a lot slower. They said the newer houses had so much material made from sawdust and things that they burned faster. They also said that if a newer house catches fire and burns a couple of rooms or so the house is usually done and is torn down, whereas an older home can survive a few burned rooms and be repaired.

Another thing they mentioned was that they now recommend that parents close their kids doors at night because if there is a house fire in other parts of the house the closed door can actually save that room from getting burnt. I am sure it may depend on the type of door? They mentioned where they have been in houses where this has been the case.

They also explained how the smoke from a fire will roll around the door frames from room to room in a matter that creates a void behind it like water rolling over a rock. I had asked him about placing the smoke detectors right above the door frames and that is when they explained this. They said that the smoke detectors needed to be placed as high as possible but not too close to the door frame and not in cubby holes but more out in an open area near where things might be placed that would burn. They said the smoke goes to the top and then starts to fall as it gets thicker and heavier. This is the reason to place the detectors as high as possible.

They also said, as I asked, that you know when not to open a door or window during a fire if it is hot to the touch. They said to use the back of your hand to quickly touch it to test and not to grab it like you normally would with the front of your hand, because the instinct could be to actually grab the doorknob when you feel the heat out of something like a fear response. I forget exactly how he explained it.

They said that the ten year Lithium battery detectors were good to not worry about the battery changes but the others were fine as well, however, they also needed to be changed every ten years because of the substance deterioration in the smoke detectors. Mine in my house are 30 years old.

They also consider where the HVAC is located in case it catches fire.

They said that the biggest importance was that there was a smoke detector in every bedroom. They recommended that I might put one in the laundry room as well at this house. I could also put one in the living room if I wanted to but it wasn't necessary considering the size of my house being smaller.

The fire extinguisher they recommended not being near the stove and not even really being in the kitchen but in a room close enough to be easily accessible. In my case I am going to put it in the laundry room as there could be a dryer fire and the kitchen is next to it. Also the back door is there.

This is a good group of guys. They answered all my questions and even showed me the fire truck and explained how they used it. It was a really good experience and I learned a lot. A lot of you may have already known all of this. Even so, I would recommend having the firemen come look at your house and give tips on fire safety. I really enjoyed this and thought I would share. Maybe it will help save lives as well.

Thank you for your time. --73.190.xxx.xxx




fire inspection (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2023 9:13 PM
Message:

Smoke detector placement is dictated by the building code. One in each bedroom and one in each level’s hallway. If the house has central air, one of the detectors should be within 3’ of the return grill.

I haven’t been in construction for a long while, but these were the codes at that time. Also, they should all be wired together so if one goes off, they all do. --71.63.xx.xx




fire inspection (by Small potatoes [NY]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2023 10:11 PM
Message:

Used to be they wanted smokes above the door outside the room. Now it is above the door inside the room w in 1 ft of the ceiling. One in the hallway on every level of the building. When I had a fire inspection for my 3 family fire bldg, the firemen were looking more at my flooring and finishes and commenting how they might do what I did at home. Glad you got something useful out of it. --172.56.xxx.xx




fire inspection (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2023 10:24 PM
Message:

6man,

Nice report!

I will add - we’ve had 3 attic fires so we put an SD in each attic. Fires were blazing over their heads while they watched the game.

One fire shorted the wires connecting the hard wired SDs so they stopped screaming. We now use battery backed models.

I suggest every person tour a burned home. It is obvious how the heat affects the walls. The smoke curls where the wall meets the ceiling. Right below it the heat is so intense it scorches the paper coating of the drywall. Lower is just soot. The bottom 12” is still clean. So CRAWL out of a fire.

My brother was a submariner. They are VERY fire conscious. He said to put extinguishers at the EXIT. Grab it on your way out, then you can look back and assess with it in your hand. If the hall fills fast with smoke you cannot get to the extinguisher.

BRAD --73.103.xxx.xxx




fire inspection (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2023 10:24 PM
Message:

6man,

Nice report!

I will add - we’ve had 3 attic fires so we put an SD in each attic. Fires were blazing over their heads while they watched the game.

One fire shorted the wires connecting the hard wired SDs so they stopped screaming. We now use battery backed models.

I suggest every person tour a burned home. It is obvious how the heat affects the walls. The smoke curls where the wall meets the ceiling. Right below it the heat is so intense it scorches the paper coating of the drywall. Lower is just soot. The bottom 12” is still clean. So CRAWL out of a fire.

My brother was a submariner. They are VERY fire conscious. He said to put extinguishers at the EXIT. Grab it on your way out, then you can look back and assess with it in your hand. If the hall fills fast with smoke you cannot get to the extinguisher.

BRAD --73.103.xxx.xxx




fire inspection (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Aug 15, 2023 10:31 PM
Message:

Have all the smoke alarms connected together where AC with battery back up. Another option even better consider installing Uponor pex 1/2” piping then can install Uponor sprinkler heads where better then smoke alarm fires will put out. A special expansion tool then have sprinkler heads through out house A type pex is easy to work with where bends easily along easy to work with where expand then install pipe. Where no crimps. Commercial grade pex can be used for commercial and residential buildings. View some videos on You Tube about Uponor pex and sprinkler systems. --74.220.xxx.xxx




fire inspection (by Oreo [WI]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 2:48 AM
Message:

6X Thank you so much. I've learned a lot from your share. It sounded very informative as well as fun. --75.11.xx.xx




fire inspection (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 7:05 AM
Message:

I do the hardwire together idea, one where the stairway goes up to catch the natural rising smoke as 6 mentioned, BRK9120b - I keep a 6pak in stock. very good info here. --184.59.xxx.xx




fire inspection (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 8:28 AM
Message:

Good advice overall, and it matches much of what I was taught growing up. Maybe my school just happened to be very conscience of fire safety? I thought it was normal stuff in elementary levels.

One thing: the extinguisher. What are you legal obligations as far as testing and maintaining it, if you provide it? If it fails, could you be found liable if you do not keep a log of testing/maint? Just looking out for your interest. Sometimes, being a good Samaritan gets you in trouble because you assume a liability by providing certain pieces of safety equipment. I'm not saying don't provide it: I'm saying know your duties and obligations if you choose to provide it. I don't provide extinguishers.

One thing about smoke detectors in rentals: be sure you have a clause putting the testing and maintenance (new batteries) on the tenant's shoulders, if that is legally allowed in your area. I've seen landlords get sued when they could not PROVE that they had tested the smoke detectors to ensure they were working. "I did it during an inspection" wasn't good enough for the judge: you need a signed LOG RECORD that the tenant agrees you tested them. We all know tenants remove the batteries around Christmas time for.... ahem .... reasons (kids new toys). They also remove them when they start to chirp. The 10 year models are slightly less hassle in that they can't be disabled by the tenant and you don't have to get on a ladder with a new battery every 6 months, but still have to be tested by the landlord unless you specify it's the tenant's duty.

Again, the KISS principle applies. --70.57.xx.xxx




fire inspection (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 8:36 AM
Message:

You violated rule number 1- never invite govt employees to your houses. this could have ended badly for you --74.77.xx.xx




fire inspection (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 8:41 AM
Message:

Hardwired smoke alarms with battery back up where battery will last longer along there is green light when functional. If the battery is removed the smoke alarm will chirp. Near a ceiling a electrical box can be installed where can wire where there is power where can use voltmeter from black and white or red and while. Also can buy a dual alarm for carbon monoxide and fire in one unit. --74.220.xxx.xxx




fire inspection (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 9:23 AM
Message:

6x6- Good info. Thanks for the share.

I am currently (slowly) replacing the old battery SD's with sealed units. The only hardwired detectors are at my home. Had to put them in because new construction.

I only provide extinguishers for my kids, not the tenants at large. When I did supply them they were always half used because someone wanted to play or there was a fire at the stove. Nobody ever replaced or refilled them.

That reminds me I need to grab mine and give them a look. Fire safety company we used back at my W2 said to turn them upside down and smack them with a rubber mallet. Keeps the dry chems from sticking to the bottom. --107.147.xx.xxx




fire inspection (by David [MI]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 9:43 AM
Message:

When my tenants renew their lease, on their renewal agreement, it includes language that they have tested the smoke alarms to be working.

--68.56.xxx.xx




fire inspection (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 9:56 AM
Message:

Indiana law requires the LL have the resident's signature on a Smoke Detector Acknowledgement which reminds the res that batteries and care of SDs are the responsibility of the res.

Also, we know install one combo smoke and CO detector, usually the hall unit.

BRAD --73.103.xxx.xxx




fire inspection (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 9:56 AM
Message:

Indiana law requires the LL have the resident's signature on a Smoke Detector Acknowledgement which reminds the res that batteries and care of SDs are the responsibility of the res.

Also, we know install one combo smoke and CO detector, usually the hall unit.

BRAD --73.103.xxx.xxx




fire inspection (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 10:55 AM
Message:

Excellent report. Thank you for sharing information. --76.178.xxx.xxx




fire inspection (by Jim in O C [CA]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 11:35 AM
Message:

California law requires the landlord or their employee to test all smoke detectors annually even 10 year. This puts a LL into many rooms plus by changing the furnace filters you again are inside dwelling. I have labels that I initial and date when I test the SD plus i keep a log of the SD date and date put into service.

Robert in LA had a fire and discovered some of the SD batteries were in the kids toys.

--99.23.xxx.x




fire inspection (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 11:41 AM
Message:

I am not Anti rental inspection, if these inspections were strictly about health and safety. Smoke detectors get placed in every bedroom and on every floor in my places. They are within six inches of the ceiling above each doorway - so I can find them easily.

Additionally my units have CO2 detectors and a fire extinguisher is located under the kitchen sink. --24.101.xxx.xxx




fire inspection (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 5:50 PM
Message:

Thank you everyone for the replies, suggestions, and tips.

Small potatoes and Ray, the firemen explained to me not to put the smoke detectors right above the doorway because of the way the smoke rolls around the door frame and creates a void behind it. I actually have some that way in my house and my rental. The ones in my rental are hard wired with battery back up. After the firemen explained the reason I realized that I need to place them differently in this rehab. They also suggested not placing the fire extinguisher in the kitchen, at least in my case, as they may be too close to the heat and fire for someone to easily get to it.

Brad, I will have to check out a burned home one day.

Sid, good point about the liability.

Ken, thank you for the rule. How could this have ended badly?

Jim, I usually do quarterly maintenance checks and try to always remember to test the detectors. The ones I am currently installing are the 10 year lithium but I will still test them the same. I remember Robert J's warning on that.

The firemen asked if any of the appliances were gas. He said that since I did not have any gas appliances then I really didn't need a CO2 detector.

Thank you again everyone for the added information.

--73.190.xxx.xxx




fire inspection (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 7:29 PM
Message:

6x6 I have spent my life fighting building inspectors,mayors,generally any govt employee,I have had a building inspector tell me he had to slow me down because i was making too much money.When i was in my early 20s i got beat up by these guys pretty regularly until i learned how to fight back and win so to me i make no deals with any of them and try to stay under the radar as much as possible.The deals i do now i am usually long gone before they even know i was there which is fine with me --74.77.xx.xx




fire inspection (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 9:09 PM
Message:

Thank you Ken. --73.190.xxx.xxx




fire inspection (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 9:21 PM
Message:

The problem with building inspector they only look at gross rent where rental units need constant repairs and renovations. I can not believe in the stupidity of the building inspector. One building inspector told me I should charge higher rent where across road along with the other rentals they are paying property tax on a single family house with multiple illegal fire trap apartments with no fire walls. This is forcing rents on legal rentals down. --74.220.xxx.xxx




fire inspection (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Aug 16, 2023 11:39 PM
Message:

That's me, Robert J in CA, not LA.

But I had an issue with the Fire Department, Fire Marshal, Code Enforcement, Building and Safety and other jokers who each had their own ideas where the fire safety equipment should go, and wanted me to have an annual inspection of my building costing around $4,000.

So I called in the ONLY Private Fire Expert, a 68 year old women that has more stripes, stars and metals than the entire fire department. She testified that my current system was fine, it exceeded all codes and since Robert installed an maintains the equipment himself, she knows it will be done rights. Then she said that I installed all of her fire systems in her buildings and her extended family. That shut everyone up.

--47.155.xx.xxx




fire inspection (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Aug 17, 2023 10:53 AM
Message:

I install a fire extinguisher just within reach of kitchen door. I tell tenants my 3 rules for fire : Rule 1. Get everybody out of the house. 2. Get everybody out of the house. 3. Fire extinguisher is there ONLY if they are having trouble complying with rules 1 and 2. This makes them grin, but they remember.

I need to remember to add they NEED a specified meeting place outside. I also remind them to keep a pan lid OR a dinner plate next to the stove when they cook. That if there is a grease fire, they can quickly cover the pan. One tenant keeps a cute box of baking soda on the counter nearest her stove, but she didn't remember where she bought it.

Only had one fire extinguisher used so far ( knock, knock). Tenant had had a barbecue with family earlier that day, neighbor came banging on the door saying the garbage can was smoking. I noticed the extinguisher was missing from the wall, tenant hadn't mentioned anything. Tenant may have been worried about me scolding, chiding? Anyway, I replaced extinguisher, praised tenant for her quick thinking, didn't charge her for the extinguisher. Went over barbecue coals disposal, though tenant hadn't cleared out the grill, wasn't sure about source of smoke.

Good stuff, 6X6. Thanks for sharing.

--72.135.xxx.xx




fire inspection (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Aug 20, 2023 3:45 PM
Message:

Brad 20,000-

Regarding the law (IC32-31-5-7) where LL must have tenant sign off on working smoke detectors and acknowledge that they are responsible.

I now have a separate sheet for them to sign off but instead added a sig line at the section that covered detectors.

Does everyone think this will be in compliance? Before I had just the section but they didn't have to sign off on it separately.

(i) Tenant acknowledges that all smoke detectors are working at the time of lease signing and that they must be kept operational at all times. Replacing batteries or sealed units is the tenant's responsibility. Not keeping smoke detectors operational at all times will be considered a violation of the lease and subject to eviction. --107.147.xx.xxx




fire inspection (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Aug 20, 2023 5:58 PM
Message:

How does one replace batteries in a sealed smoke detector, inquiring minds want to learn. --172.59.xxx.xxx




fire inspection (by wmh [NC]) Posted on: Aug 20, 2023 7:24 PM
Message:

You don't, Plenty. You just replace the whole unit. We install 10-years, write the date installed on the bottom where it can be seen by anyone - even short people like me - and replace after 5 years. --50.82.xxx.xxx




fire inspection (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Aug 21, 2023 6:47 AM
Message:

Is the writing confusing on my listed section? I know what I meant to say, but will tenants understand?

wmh- Why do you replace in 5 years? I just started using sealed units so I do not have a lifespan beyond what the manufacturer states. --107.147.xx.xxx




fire inspection (by Hoosier [IN]) Posted on: Aug 21, 2023 12:04 PM
Message:

First off, you are to be commended for thinking of this in advance, great idea!

One thing I'll add is that there are two different types of smoke detectors. One looks for flames ( called a flame ionization type) and the other looks for smoke ( called opacity or photoelectric). The package often will NOT specify which type, but there are clues such as the package may say "detects smoky fires" or similar. IMO the ones that detect smoke are better, as most people die from smoke inhalation rather than the flames...but these are slightly more expensive. There are types that detect BOTH...see below.

As for fire extinguisher, be careful...put instructions in your lease about how to use...as they are rated ABC and some types you should not use on grease fires such as a kitchen range...so make sure you tell the tenant how/when to use it for both their safety, protection of your property, and liability reasons.

amazon.com/First-Alert-BRK-3120B-6-Photoelectric/dp/B07B4CD2WM/ref=sxin_14_pa_sp_search_thematic_sspa?content-id=amzn1.sym.1c86ab1a-a73c-4131-85f1-15bd92ae152d%3Aamzn1.sym.1c86ab1a-a73c-4131-85f1-15bd92ae152d&cv_ct_cx=smoke%2Bdetector&keywords=smoke%2Bdetector&pd_rd_i=B07B4CD2WM&pd_rd_r=5e7eb77c-423c-46a8-8c83-02776fb97614&pd_rd_w=9A7E4&pd_rd_wg=KXzRb&pf_rd_p=1c86ab1a-a73c-4131-85f1-15bd92ae152d&pf_rd_r=CJM1JMJPAYYTS3RBJK3X&qid=1692633726&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=smoke%2Bdete%2Caps%2C135&sr=1-1-364cf978-ce2a-480a-9bb0-bdb96faa0f61-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9zZWFyY2hfdGhlbWF0aWM&th=1

--99.92.xxx.xxx




fire inspection (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Aug 21, 2023 4:45 PM
Message:

Thank you for the additional replies.

Hoosier, Thank you for the additional information.

I forgot to mention about the 2 different types. I put in for smoke detection. The ones I bought say on the package.

I made a copy of the fire extinguisher instructions to place in the move-in binder. --73.190.xxx.xxx





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