At the 2 Minute In Home Visit prior to final approval I snap a few pics as I walk up to their home - yard, vehicles....Paperwork and Home checked out fine.

Wifey was curious so I showed her the pics.

Zoomed in on the big tire 4x4 super pickup truck - 20 inch tall decals on the back window.

"Be a flirt, lift your sk" and "Lifted so my d don't drag".

Really??

I called the girlfriend and explained the lease does not allow off-color or vulgar decorations or signs. (written for Halloween mostly)

"The owners will only allow the lease if the stickers are removed."

The wife agreed how she is embarrassed by them.

My Wifey says she would not want that next door.

Now ghosted.

Did I go too far?

No, you did not.

Good catch - it pays to be observant of the environment. Of course, even if he DID agree to remove them, they would be replaced. Like someone who says they will quit smoking or give away their dog if you let them move in. People just don't change their ways that fast.

That's a really good rule. Management has the final decision as to what is considered vulgar or inappropriate.

Also look for vulgar things on clothing during showing, and barely-covered

"private" body parts.

Behaviors have patterns,

The stickers were on the car, not house. So I assume if the truck wasn't there during your visit, there wasn't any other issues and you'd sign the lease?

We must push for better tenants. Better tenants are the key to a better rental housing business.

Effective Tenant screening requires focus on finding a single reason to reject, not on finding several reasons to approve.

On the other hand, should you find that tenants who display lewd messages on their automobiles are instead the superior tenant, then it is time to make adjustments.

They MIGHT have been OK, but that's a big red flag waving at you right there...

next it will be because they're brown, black or asían! Oh that's right we have that here already. you go Brad.

Maybe you could catch them talking and saying a word you find offensive.

This type stuff is common in my rural area. I wouldn't think twice about it.

We actually have a guy who drives around in a nice SUV with HUGE letters on the back window along the lines of "unvaccinated sperm $3,000".

Confederate flags fly high here.

BLM stickers are everywhere.

Gay pride stuff is everywhere.

F*** Joe Biden flags fly off porches at the access road to the elementary school.

Plenty of "nice" stuff everywhere too. So ... free speech is everywhere here. Not for me to decide what a tenant should say and do.

Scott lets stripe down each applicant and check tats?

Brad what kind of training are you suggesting?

Bumper stickers are designed to express a person's point of view to the world, personal or political. They shouldn't be surprised if someone is offended or turned off by that, and they shouldn't rent from/be rented to by someone who disagrees.

I can handle the political stuff, regardless of side. Although it does change my opinion of them.

I won't rent to Confederate flags or allow them to be displayed on property.

If everything else checked out, and it was a "c" house...I'd let 'em have it.

I'm conflicted.

I believe in free speech, but, OTOH, those messages are slightly intimidating to me as a female landlord. And, I certainly get annoyed when I see messages like that displayed where children can read those messages. That said, I've had a neighbor who VEHEMENTLY objected when I said , 'Oh, I hate that.' She couldn't tolerate anyone using the word hate against anything. And she told everyone very strongly. Yet she was the biggest bully in the neighborhood, in her own way.

With kids, when trying to get them to not develop a habit of using 'bad words', one of the most effective ways to get them to drop a habit is to simply ignore it. I would have looked at other behaviors, and probably would have counted this as one of the applicants 'You Shoulds'. I allow two You Shoulds during the application process, get to three, and I deny. ( you should ...do this.., do that... during the application process? If the applicant gets to three, they are too pushy for me, my houses aren't perfect, my landlord skills aren't perfect, oh, and I'm human, not a housing deity there to make their housing perfect. And, I DO get that tenants aren't perfect either, which is why I perhaps allow more than many landlords. Though I do aim to keep my places much better than average.)

In my area, I don't have to give applicants reason for denial, other than credit, so I don't. For a couple of reasons:

1.) I am sometimes awkward in how I message something. My words could be misconstrued.

2.) telling them trains them to correct that behavior during the application process, then they can resume the behavior once they are in a place.

Way back during the W2 career I was working maintenance at this place. We had a contracting company come in for some kind of work. I used to work for that company and knew the supervisors. Anyhow, they had this new guy come to the facility, in his personal vehicle.

He had big letters across the back of his car that said F*** Fear.

I saw it and thought it was silly. Then some of the worker bees saw it when they went out on break. They lost their collective minds.

His vehicle was not allowed to come back to our plant.

This was maybe 25 years ago. Times have changed. I say bad words now and again but I do not do it in front of people that I feel will be offended.

I agree with Brad and wmh who wrote....

"I can handle the political stuff, regardless of side. Although it does change my opinion of them.

I WON'T rent to Confederate flags or allow them to be displayed on property.

Wow! Thanks for the great feedback!

This is a low priced neighborhood that used to be rough and tumble - anything goes, park in the mud, cars on blocks...but with the housing shortage investors are fixing up homes left and right.

We spent a lot of money making this home nice.

I want to do my part to keep the neighborhood improving.

Crude stickers is a step backwards.

I talked with the girlfriend because she was my contact and available while he was at work. I let HER take the heat, not me!

Brad,

Are you asking if there is disparate impact on your choice, I would think the answer is probably.

Would it be hard to prove - absolutely.

Was the bumper stick in bad taste - probably, but that is just my opinion. It is tough to quantify my opinion...even if I share the same taste and values as you. It would be tougher to tell someone not to go by gut on screening someone, if I would be doing just that.

The over whelming majority of my places are now nicer. Do I really need some King of the trailer park making my place look trashy.

Hi Brad, Hi MYOB,

This is somewhat of a funny post.

I guess a lot depends on where you came from and where you have been in life.

If I were to deny based on those decals, I would be a hypocrite. I have been in the trucking industry for years in one form or another. I also grew up in lower class areas. That said, those decals do not bother me. I think a lot also depends on perspective. The most vulgar thing that I ever displayed on my truck was a set of chrome plated bull balls. My little cousin at that time asked one day why I had a tooth hanging off the back of my truck. I latter removed them as I then saw the problem and didn't know how to answer. However, if I saw them on someone else's vehicle I wouldn't care. And, what does it mean if you have a lifted GMC truck with a decal on the back that says "Have You Driven Over A Ford Lately"? Or, what about having a skull head for a shifter knob? I wish I had kept that shifter knob. It would look good on the deuce. So, somethings are inappropriate, I agree, however, somethings are in fun and do no harm.

Brad, I know that you like vehicles and realize that vehicles can be displays. I understand your thoughts of concern in renting but maybe it isn't that bad. Look at some of the displays painted on military vehicles and planes by the Vets. Is that offensive? I think it's perspective.

I think David[MI] & Ken made a very good point. Perhaps I am the Tiger?

yea u caught me 6. I've been reading and this one put me over the top and couldn't let it go. Now in retrospect I should have.

This is why we as a group (LL's) get so disrespected. We don't respect others.

How many tenants have you/we placed in places that we didn't care for? Who are we to now critique free speech-- your LL's for gosh sake. So under the guidelines almost all have posted here-- if I listen to radical music I'd be denied? Had a tattoo you don't like same thing- denied!

The original poster is / was a respected person on this site and even HE had to ask--"did I go to far" your question is the answer. Newbies listen to this 6.

WE discriminate because of what people think now? What decal is on a truck window? What's next the color of their skin? The poster knew it was wrong and is seeking approval. Not getting it from me.

I would've denied as well. The ones I've seen have the fake rubber testicles hanging from the trailer hitch.

Freedom of speech applies to the Govt and private individuals. If you read the 1st Amendment it says, "The Govt shall make no law..."

I'm not the Govt. I'm a private citizen. I can "infringe" on anyone's speech as much as I want. 100% legal, and in some cases 100% warranted. I don't tolerate obscenity and vulgarity on constant display, which is the whole point of stickers, signs, posters, etc.

I really don't care if tenants respect me. I care if they pay the rent on time, keep the place decent, obey the law, and are good neighbors. They call holler "F*** the landlord" all they want, just not around me. *grins

I have to give Sid props here, because unlike other posters, he is willing to be honest and say that it is within the LL rights to reject tenants based on a sticker or decal. It is no different than what the official Michigan tenant handbook states: a landlord can deny because applicant drives a blue car instead of a red car.

David and Sid exactly-- you and many others can't see the forest due to the trees. David your last sentence-- my gosh man--- Jeffery and hopefully many others you can't support this stance? It turns my stomach hearing stuff like this.

No David he is not within his rights to discriminate. What are you saying? 100%!

I understand what Unbelievable is saying and I'm listening.

I must have misunderstood David[MI] first response. David made a good point about the fact that Brad would have likely rented to these tenants had it not been for the decals on the truck. But, as with Unbelievable, I don't agree totally with Davids last response.

It would be highly unlikely to find the perfect angels, that matched our likes and dislikes to a T, in an unperfect world full of people from all walks of life, and yet not rent to friends and family. Where would one find such a human?

Is everyone saying that their tenants are perfect?

That their tenants and themselves never say a foul word?

You don't mind typing a reference to foul words so the word is already in your thoughts and we all know the meanings to these words, right?

Just exactly who decided on what a foul word is and which ones anyway?

Where is the reference book on this that can be trusted and verified?

If I got too picky with selecting my tenants, I would be in trouble.

David, I was honest about being a hypocrite if I denied someone for a truck decal, what about you?

6x6 class c tenants dont really get involved in politics.

MC yes it's OK. So MC you stiffed the pizza man? You ordered a pizza and then left it without paying-- yea I want you as my tenant-- you just stole and we don't take thief's as renters.

In the 60's if you walked in with long hair they would refuse you service.... is that OK? We all know about the lunch counter in MS.

Ken I'm from NY so I know the hidden discrimination that takes place. O'l Archie Bunker and George Jefferson referred to it as block busting in the day. So lets not go down that road. Ken and it still goes on "hip pocket listing". Ken, he has no right to discriminate because this country is trying to stop what the constitution is clear about.

I will say for the record I've been on this site and participated for years here. This poster, who also posts for years and is followed, is exactly why I stop my input. YOUR teaching discrimination-- put lip stick on that pig anyway you want but in the end its still a pig.

You all make sure you turn off your music cause I've heard way too many lyrics well out of bounds for this group.

Well, at least we know the trolls are still alive and.... um, well! And apparently they still can't read and missed Freshman political science in high school.

That's right SID degrade others to try and show your SUPERIOR knowledge without making any type of point. The usual from you.

MYOB, if you're going to return after a 2 month "peace out" post, why don't you at least post under your former name?

I stand by what I said: every freshman in high school learns that the US Constitution reads thus:

"CONGRESS shall make no law..." yadda yadda. insert all our rights that the Govt cannot infringe. Key phrase: "The Govt".

PRIVATE CITIZENS can and do infringe on free speech... all... the... time. 100% legal. 100% moral. You're trying to take me to task for with a completely incorrect understanding of the Bill of Rights, which is weird. It's even weirder because you have chosen to adopt a new name to post under... for what reasons I don't know. We know who you are. You can take off the mask.

Let's remember that respect goes both ways.

Not just from the landlord & not just to the landlord.

I believe this type of concern that is being discussed is that someone being "in your face" like that with their machismo or degradation of women, or whatever the truck owner was trying to say could very likely cause turmoil within the neighborhood.

I wouldn't even say it is defined by the neighborhood. There are a variety of people with all different morals and opinions within the same socio-economic class (neighborhood)

Some segments of society have been desensitized & become more accustomed to this type of behavior and expression as being OK, but many others still consider it inappropriate, crass, asking for a fight.

I would not have replied to this again, except for this being compared to something like outright racism.

THIS is something that the truck owner CHOOSES to display - his chosen behavior and ideals that he wants everyone to know about.

Racism / discrimination in the way you mean it is when you hold something against a group of people that they do NOT openly do or hold as their principles of belief. Perhaps you see one person who seems similar to the others do something you disagree with, and you hold it against ALL people whom you think are similar to them - with no justification.

This truck owner clearly expressed HIS stand on a topic and only HE is held responsible for the consequences of HIS behavior.

This truly is the beauty / value of this forum. A place where we can explore the different perspectives on a certain issue, so we can learn from / better understand someone with different life experiences and world views. Ideally without degrading each other, because of course, we all exercise our freedom of speech.

Brad, since this is the home that they currently live in, why take pictures as walking up to the home?

Not all freedom of speech can be exercised on this forum. My questions I made another post for just got removed.

Brad again, I think you were right to reject this guy. In support of your decision I found this:

Exercising freedom of speech is a fundamental right in many democratic societies, but it is not without consequences. While individuals have the right to express their opinions, there can be various repercussions depending on the context, content, and the laws of the specific country or region. Here are some possible consequences:

Legal consequences: Although freedom of speech is protected in many democracies, there are limitations. Hate speech, incitement to violence, defamation, and false statements of fact can lead to legal actions, including fines, penalties, or even imprisonment.

Social repercussions: Expressing controversial or unpopular opinions may lead to social consequences, such as public backlash, criticism, ostracism, or social media attacks.

Employment issues: Depending on the nature of the speech and the policies of an employer, individuals might face disciplinary actions, termination, or difficulties in finding employment.

Loss of reputation: Controversial statements can damage an individual's reputation and credibility, leading to long-term consequences in personal and professional life.

Online harassment: In the age of social media, expressing opinions publicly can expose individuals to online harassment, cyberbullying, and doxxing.

Retaliation and threats: In extreme cases, exercising freedom of speech, especially when criticizing powerful entities, can lead to retaliation, threats, or physical harm.

Censorship and suppression: In some countries or authoritarian regimes, speaking out against the government or expressing dissenting views can result in censorship, imprisonment, or even violence by state authorities.

Strengthening of beliefs and polarization: Freedom of speech can contribute to the reinforcement of existing beliefs and lead to further polarization within society.

It's important to remember that while freedom of speech is crucial for a healthy democracy and open discourse, it also comes with responsibilities. Respect for the rights and opinions of others, as well as adherence to legal boundaries, is vital in fostering constructive and inclusive conversations.

Sid I don't see yada yada yada in the constitution. -- quoting the law from a ?Stonefield episode? Totally lost site of this poster running a business. Forget it's the same what part of the law should we uphold-- the part for the landlord or just the part for the tenant.

Way to many people, are at least insinuating, they are going against equal rights-- your opinions are yours and attempting to place them onto or in the realm of others is wrong.

MC so to be clear on the pizza-- if the pizza delivery or chinese delivery person rolls up and rings the door bell-- you wouldn't pay cause he or she or them has tats you don't like?

Laura and Busy's separate points mirror my opinion about this guy's state of mind. He paints himself as aggressive and less than woman-friendly. As a woman who would be in a position of authority over him, that matters to me.

BUT something that Brad didn't play up - none of us did but should have - is that regardless of what the bumper stickers said, the TRUCK was up on blocks in the yard...this is a HUGE no-no, totally forbidden by my lease so there's that first & foremost.

Ken please don't throw a hand grenade into this.

Discrimination vs qualification 2 different animals. BRAD, who BTW has gone totally silent on this-SHOCKER doesn't have anything in his application process saying if you have truck decals-- NEED not apply! Is there a clause in the lease that has it? I think not. Lets not think just decals- that's not what this is about for LL's. I just don't like them or their looks, as business people, can not be used to deny applicants. DO WE ALL DO IT? sure but we need to stop judging and get back to RE and OUR investment.

Final word. Thanks for letting me post my opinion. You can see the "attacks" when you don't agree with regular posters here.

"doesn't have anything in his application process saying if you have truck decals-- NEED not apply! Is there a clause in the lease that has it? I think not. "

Perhaps it is the case in places in CA and NY, but most states don't require LLs to post an exhaustive list of the application criteria and hew strictly to that list. Now, as I posted early on, if Brad didn't catch it and signed the lease, then Brad would probably have to rely on 30 day notice to terminate m2m or wait until end of lease.

" I just don't like them or their looks, as business people, can not be used to deny applicants. "

You can't deny based on race, gender, ethnicity , religion and some other stuffs.

You can deny if they have a tattoo you don't like

You can deny if they have a hair style you don't like

You can deny if they have a blue car instead of red car

You can deny if they have a LGB FJB sticker

You can deny if they have a Blue lives matter sticker

You can deny if they look at you the wrong way

Brad, this brings to mind 2 occasions for me. One happened 20 years ago, the other happened a year ago.

The first one involved an artist who was "free-spirited." No question - he WAS talented. In his free time, however, he liked to dance naked in front of his sliding glass window. The window looked out onto a stair well that served some of the units in this 12-plex. One of his neighbors was walking her child by and glanced into the open window and this guy shook his goods at her and her daughter as they passed. Of course, I got a complaint directly and got to deal with this issue. The man alleged that he had the right to do whatever he wanted within the walls of his apartment. What I learned from the policeman: Once an image exits your apartment, and enters into the domain of the public, it becomes subject to the rules applied to public spaces. The exhibitionist had to cease and desist or be charged with lewd behavior laws.

Second situation: During the most recent women's marches, one of my new, young tenants placed posters all over her balcony that read "P*ssy Power" and "It's my v*gina, I'll do what I want with it," signs. This was in an 8-plex and the other neighbors had lost their enjoyment of living there and were embarrassed to have company come over.

I explained to the tenant that they were allowed to decorate the INTERIOR of their apartments any way they wished - and reminded them of the "leaving your domain" situation of the nudist dancer. Outside decorations were not allowed unless approved by management. They are considered advertising and, as such, are subject to additional costs. I added that one could freely walk on public sidewalks with posters, or pickets, but that hate speech, or speech that would invite damage to the outside of buildings, or vehicles, was not covered by our insurance policy and that doing such was just not part of this lease.

To Unbelievable, one has the right to have their own opinions and freedoms, and there are plenty of outlets for that freedom of expression. Holding an apartment building hostage to your divisive views, or for that vulgarities comes at a price.

When I rent, I market peace and quiet, and I make sure that those who rent from me desire that sort of environment or I tell them I can refer them to other landlords who don't commit to that environment.