Two year lease...or three
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Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Jul 9, 2023 8:39 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by Jason [VA]) Jul 9, 2023 8:43 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by RB [TN]) Jul 9, 2023 9:02 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Jul 9, 2023 9:32 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Jul 9, 2023 10:21 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by zero [IN]) Jul 9, 2023 11:22 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by tim [CA]) Jul 9, 2023 11:22 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by T [IN]) Jul 9, 2023 11:28 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by NE [PA]) Jul 9, 2023 11:36 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by Jason [VA]) Jul 9, 2023 11:46 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by jonny [NY]) Jul 9, 2023 12:06 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by Jim in O C [CA]) Jul 9, 2023 12:08 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Jul 9, 2023 12:10 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by RB [TN]) Jul 9, 2023 12:17 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by Small potatoes [NY]) Jul 9, 2023 12:27 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by Cat [WI]) Jul 9, 2023 3:14 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Jul 9, 2023 3:31 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by Sisco [MO]) Jul 9, 2023 3:49 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by Sisco [MO]) Jul 9, 2023 3:54 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Jul 9, 2023 4:10 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by Sisco [MO]) Jul 9, 2023 4:37 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Jul 9, 2023 5:16 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by Jason [MI]) Jul 10, 2023 3:03 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by Small potatoes [NY]) Jul 10, 2023 10:18 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Jul 10, 2023 11:10 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Jul 10, 2023 12:24 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Jul 10, 2023 12:26 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by RB [TN]) Jul 10, 2023 12:53 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by Small potatoes [NY]) Jul 10, 2023 11:36 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Jul 11, 2023 9:18 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by Jason [VA]) Jul 11, 2023 11:27 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Jul 11, 2023 12:19 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by zero [IN]) Jul 12, 2023 5:45 PM
       Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Jul 16, 2023 7:11 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by Jason [VA]) Jul 16, 2023 9:51 AM
       Two year lease...or three (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jul 17, 2023 11:18 AM


Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 8:39 AM
Message:

I made another big change to my processes. After a decade of doing one year leases, this year I had three tenants move out after just moved in last year. So I said enough, I will require initial two year leases, then they can renew for a year at a time. I will also increase my ELT to three months from two months.

Then. I got to more thinking. Why not three?? So , in the Zillow ad, I will write that the rent is advertised for three year lease, but two year lease is available for $100 extra a month. This way I get to advertise at a lower rent but still allow tenant to choose 2 or 3 year.

--68.56.xxx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 8:43 AM
Message:

Are you building annual increases into the lease? If not it would be a great deal for the tenants to live there for three years with a locked in rate. In general, long term leases benefit the tenant much more so than the landlord. --71.63.xx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by RB [TN]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 9:02 AM
Message:

Mid-nite move outs might increase, too. --24.183.xxx.xxx




Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 9:32 AM
Message:

yes, I can add annual increases in the lease, but that's not a priority for me, I'm happy to cut the tenant a break in exchange for staying longer

I have been doing this for ten years, never had a midnight move out. I've had more than ten tenants pay me ELT. I always get 1.5 months deposit so even when one tenant needed to move but didn't have enough cash, the deposit covered the ELT , as he also left me an inoperable commerical riding lawn mower that I sold for $300 --68.56.xxx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 10:21 AM
Message:

If I have a tenant I don't like, it can be tough to ride out the year until the end of the lease. I suspect that having a three year lease with a difficult tenant would be hellish.

I don't think a lease really holds a tenant in place. If they want to go, they just go but the flip is not true. If you want them out, you can't just get them out. --76.178.xxx.xxx




Two year lease...or three (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 11:22 AM
Message:

I can't imagine getting a new tenant to sign a three year lease. I don't know what I will be doing in a year, let alone two or three.

Not positive but I think 3 years is the max in Indiana then you have to do other things.

A prospective tenant a few years ago told me about another place that had two year hard leases. Where the tenant was still responsible for the entire lease time even if the tenant moved and the place was rented out again. Wow

I do like the idea of a discount for longer time frames tho. Not sure how you would keep a tenant in place if they wanted to go. Personally I don't want to force someone to stay at my place for a long period of time when they want out. That seems like a recipe for disaster.

Congrats on not having a midnight mover in ten years! --107.147.xx.xxx




Two year lease...or three (by tim [CA]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 11:22 AM
Message:

Listen to Oregon Woodsmoke. Do you really want to lock yourself into 3 years with a possible miserable tenant? What will you do when you want to get rid of a tenant?

Why are your tenants moving out? If it has been to move to another state for job or family, your 3 year lease won't stop that. If it's been to move to another area in your city, there are other problems in play that you should think about.

I do month-to-month and it has worked out great. Average tenant duration is 9.3 years. --108.201.xx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by T [IN]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 11:28 AM
Message:

Sounds like you need to invest in commercial properties instead of residential.

One year is the norm in residential. Part of the business.

What you need to do is ask this question:

why did those 3 move after one year? Once you get the answer, it may cause you to change your screening process... your day to day operation... or just carry on. --170.203.xxx.xxx




Two year lease...or three (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 11:36 AM
Message:

I think itís a great idea DavidÖ. Real men would do five years though. So go for three and if it works out and you have an excellent qualified tenant come along, go for 5 years! ;-) What could possibly go wrong?

Iím a lot like your tenants will become in this regard. You can have all the rules and regulations you want and Iím still going to live my life, pay my bills, etc. When you start to constrict me with your rules by going over the top and they become obnoxious, Iím going to go out of my way to break those rules. --24.152.xxx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 11:46 AM
Message:

Welcome back NE --174.193.xx.xxx




Two year lease...or three (by jonny [NY]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 12:06 PM
Message:

I can see the potential however, just like what Oregon Woodsmoke stated... they will move on without any thought unless they really like the place and plan on staying there.

I don't like the idea of moving out and finding new tenants yearly but at the same time if you get ones that seem great then turn on you (like I just did a few months ago)... you can't wait for them to move on with their lives. --69.201.xx.xxx




Two year lease...or three (by Jim in O C [CA]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 12:08 PM
Message:

I like one year lease and it becomes month to month after on year.

--146.70.xxx.xxx




Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 12:10 PM
Message:

After ten years, I can't think of a single tenant I would have given notice to if they were m2m. Every single tenant I have offered renewal to.

Most of my tenants move because they bought a house. Again, I'm not interested in forcing someone to live there for three years to move. But if they do , they will just have to pay the ELT. --73.145.xxx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by RB [TN]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 12:17 PM
Message:

My new Hero ! --24.183.xxx.xxx




Two year lease...or three (by Small potatoes [NY]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 12:27 PM
Message:

Q- b or c tenants. What you propose is more realistic w b families looking in a good school district. Where I see a problem is you let a tenant use the security deposit for their elt. This negates the purpose of the deposit to cover potential damages. In this situation they might leave and no clean up as much since you have no more leverage. I avoid prospects who have moved every year, perhaps you do too. --172.59.xxx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by Cat [WI]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 3:14 PM
Message:

I won't even do 1 yr leases. You are not going to hold a tenant to a lease if they really want to move out and good luck trying to get the money from them after they are out and gone.

I would never do a 2 yr or 3 yr lease. Tenants will leave when they want but you would be locked into the lease that you created for 2 or 3 years with many hoops to jump over to get them out if needed. Search your state landlord tenant laws to see how longer leases are more difficult than shorter ones if a tenant goes bad and trust me when I say they can out of the blue.

I now only do 6 month leases with them going month to month after that. Sure made things easier when 3 different tenants were good tenants until they werent. Legal evictions are so much easier with a month to month tenancy in my state. --74.119.xxx.xxx




Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 3:31 PM
Message:

I suspect the LLs that love M2M to get out problemic tenants are not screening properly. The requirements are not high enough to weed out problem tenants so M2M is used as a crutch

If a tenant is problematic within a year of moving in, they didn't go bad, they were already bad when they moved in and the screening wasnt thorough even to catch it

I require 670 credit, no collections (even medical), no misdemeanors . All previous LLs followed up for references. I have filed eviction twice in ten years and only one of the two ended going to setout. Both of those tenants stayed there for over four years before eviction, so a 2-3 year lease wouldn't have changed anything. --68.56.xxx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 3:49 PM
Message:

David, since the tenant has an out anytime they want by using ELT, what factors are at play to lengthen their stay?

Also, what % of rent rate escalator did you write in the new lease? --149.76.xxx.x




Two year lease...or three (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 3:54 PM
Message:

I use 12 month lease that automatically renews for additional 12 months with 4.9% rate increase.

Those that donít renew are usually screening mistakes on my part. (Not a complete failure, but not a good fit either). --149.76.xxx.x




Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 4:10 PM
Message:

"what factors are at play to lengthen their stay?" Sisco, don't understand what you mean here

As for rent increase, I don't currently have that in my two year lease, my first was signed less than a month ago. It's not too urgent for me. --68.56.xxx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 4:37 PM
Message:

What I am asking is What part of this makes an improvement in your operation?does writing a 36 month lease encourage a longer stay?

Or Do you think that advertising a 3 year leas with elt screens out some would be short term tenants? --149.76.xxx.x




Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jul 9, 2023 5:16 PM
Message:

Sisco, I think both

When applying, it should discourage applicants who already planning only to live there a year.

Once they living there, the high cost of ELT discourage tenants from moving unless they absolutely have to.

Bottom line, i expect it to reduce turnover --68.56.xxx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by Jason [MI]) Posted on: Jul 10, 2023 3:03 AM
Message:

I do all month to month. When you want to get them out all you need is 30 day notice for lease ending. There is nothing they can fight. Don't want to be stuck with someone with a 1,2, or 3 year lease. Never again year leases --107.126.xx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by Small potatoes [NY]) Posted on: Jul 10, 2023 10:18 AM
Message:

I still do year lease, but can see where MTM makes sense from a regulatory perspective. It's less about picking a bad tenant, than the process limiting your remedies. I want tenants that intend to stay more than 2 years, but have not had any that would want to be locked into a new relationship w a ll.

--172.59.xxx.x




Two year lease...or three (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Jul 10, 2023 11:10 AM
Message:

The entire covid fiasco made month to month more attractive. Landlords could not terminate a lease, but they could still give a notice to vacate to a month to month tenant.

My month to month tenants would stay about three years with exceptions like divorce, job loss, new criminal girlfriend, terminal illness. In those cases, I wanted them out anyway, so we were all happy that they could just pack up and move with no fuss.

Another benefit that I suspect is coming with month to month is that the tenant knows that you can get them out easily, so they tend to behave better and they straighten up quickly if you ever do have to give them a notice. You get less of "you can't make me" --76.178.xxx.xxx




Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jul 10, 2023 12:24 PM
Message:

"so they tend to behave better and they straighten up quickly if you ever do have to give them a notice"

I dont think its a good idea to rent to tenants who need leverage or incentive to behave properly. They should already behave properly whether m2m , 1 yr lease or 2 yr lease, otherwise why rent to them in the first place? --68.56.xxx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jul 10, 2023 12:26 PM
Message:

Let me put it another way. If a tenant would have poor behavior just because it is a 1 yr lease, i would not want to rent to them on a m2m. --68.56.xxx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by RB [TN]) Posted on: Jul 10, 2023 12:53 PM
Message:

Entertaining. --24.183.xxx.xxx




Two year lease...or three (by Small potatoes [NY]) Posted on: Jul 10, 2023 11:36 PM
Message:

David did you say if you are talking about b or c class? It makes a difference in the color of the water in the pool. You may not be swimming in the same water as others --172.59.xxx.xxx




Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jul 11, 2023 9:18 AM
Message:

Its not a matter of class of tenants

When a LL uses M2M to get rid of undesirable tenants, it actually means the screening process has a problem. Instead of having a revolving door of tenants with M2M , a LL should ask how to avoid accepting those tenants to start with --68.56.xxx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: Jul 11, 2023 11:27 AM
Message:

I tend to have quality tenants, but that being said I still use m2m leases. People change, why would I not want the freedom to terminate an agreement at a legal momentís notice? What if I decide Iíd like to sell off my portfolio and move to Mexico?

Life happens and I like options. Personally, I value peace and freedom over an ELT that I may or may not see. Money just doesnít rank nearly as important to me as freedom. --50.219.xxx.xxx




Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jul 11, 2023 12:19 PM
Message:

I'd hope that anyone moving to mexico for legitimate reasons would have a planning time horizon longer than a couple months.

People change yes, but i would not want to rent to anyone who changes in a few months, that tells me they are unstable and have deeper issues.

Here are some of my numbers:

11: number of years I've been LLing

1: the number of times I've not renewed a lease and that was because they refused to pay off the water bill prior to renew

2: the number of times I've filed eviction, for non payment

1: number of times I've actually done setout with court officer

15-20: number of ELTs I've collected (too many to count)

1: number of ELTs I was owed but didn't collect. That was because the tenant came to me in advance and we agreed that because he'd kept the house in immaculate condition, I would use his 1.5 mos deposit + a commercial lawn mower in the garage

0: mid might move outs

over 20: number of tenants that have asked me how they could exit their lease

--68.56.xxx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Jul 12, 2023 5:45 PM
Message:

People change. It's in their nature. I know I have changed over the years.

I used to pick whomever came in first. That got expensive. Then I started vetting the applicants a little. That was less expensive as I had fewer problem people.

I have learned a lot from this site and the people who contribute good knowledge. I am still not positive I want to go to year or longer leases even with an ELT. It is very attractive, but I am on the fence.

Saying that it is always an error in the application process is not correct, in my humble opinion. I have screened better, but some people are professional deadbeats in the making. Some have nefarious thoughts or poor judgement.

Had a lady with two kids in an apartment. She decided to let her ex move back in. All was good until then. She was forced to leave by court order.

In my area I do not have to give just cause if the lease is MTM. I can just say I don't want to rent to them any more. No proving problems or lease violations. They can't do the he said she said stuff. It does help when they get notice and decide to not pay that last 30 days rent though. Icing on the cake and all that.

But people change. My mother in law and her 13 year old daughter went out for a nice day of shopping. They came back to an empty house and a dear John letter. She had no clue. He had planned it for over a year. They had been together for over two decades of marriage, two kids plus were high school sweethearts.

People change. --107.147.xx.xxx




Two year lease...or three (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jul 16, 2023 7:11 AM
Message:

"

In my area I do not have to give just cause if the lease is MTM. I can just say I don't want to rent to them any more. No proving problems or lease violations. "

that would be the same even for one or two year leases --68.56.xxx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: Jul 16, 2023 9:51 AM
Message:

You donít need to convince us. Itís your business, run it as you wish. --71.63.xx.xx




Two year lease...or three (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jul 17, 2023 11:18 AM
Message:

I once collected data on my tenants and compared credit scores and length of stay. I found a sweet spot. Someone with a score above 570 but below 700 stayed the longest.

Hope that helps you David. --24.101.xxx.xxx





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