comunity property? (by mike [MA]) Jun 6, 2023 6:02 PM|
comunity property? (by Frank [NJ]) Jun 6, 2023 6:25 PM
comunity property? (by RB [TN]) Jun 6, 2023 6:28 PM
comunity property? (by Richard [MI]) Jun 6, 2023 6:41 PM
comunity property? (by plenty [MO]) Jun 6, 2023 8:03 PM
comunity property? (by Vee [OH]) Jun 6, 2023 8:17 PM
comunity property? (by Bonanza [NC]) Jun 6, 2023 8:20 PM
comunity property? (by mike [MA]) Jun 6, 2023 8:32 PM
comunity property? (by MikeA [TX]) Jun 6, 2023 8:45 PM
comunity property? (by Moshe [CA]) Jun 6, 2023 9:09 PM
comunity property? (by mike [MA]) Jun 6, 2023 9:15 PM
comunity property? (by mike [MA]) Jun 6, 2023 9:22 PM
comunity property? (by Ed [CA]) Jun 6, 2023 9:26 PM
comunity property? (by Still Learning [NH]) Jun 6, 2023 10:15 PM
comunity property? (by Moshe [CA]) Jun 7, 2023 12:03 AM
comunity property? (by MC [PA]) Jun 7, 2023 6:37 AM
comunity property? (by Deanna [TX]) Jun 7, 2023 7:33 AM
comunity property? (by S i d [MO]) Jun 7, 2023 8:20 AM
comunity property? (by Deanna [TX]) Jun 7, 2023 9:02 AM
comunity property? (by Nicole [PA]) Jun 7, 2023 10:54 AM
comunity property? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jun 7, 2023 12:37 PM
comunity property? (by Mike45 [NV]) Jun 7, 2023 3:02 PM
comunity property? (by Jim [OH]) Jun 7, 2023 4:58 PM
comunity property? (by mike [MA]) Jun 7, 2023 7:25 PM
comunity property? (by 6x6 [TN]) Jun 7, 2023 8:01 PM
comunity property? (by MikeA [TX]) Jun 7, 2023 9:15 PM
comunity property? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jun 7, 2023 9:57 PM
comunity property? (by 6x6 [TN]) Jun 7, 2023 10:11 PM
comunity property? (by tryan [MA]) Jun 8, 2023 11:41 AM
comunity property? (by mike [MA]) Jun 10, 2023 2:54 PM
comunity property? (by Jason [VA]) Jun 10, 2023 5:59 PM
comunity property? (by Jim in O C [CA]) Jun 10, 2023 6:37 PM
comunity property? (by Laura [MD]) Jun 10, 2023 10:13 PM
comunity property? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jun 11, 2023 8:29 PM
comunity property? (by plenty [MO]) Jun 12, 2023 8:22 AM
comunity property? (by Salernitana [CA]) Jun 19, 2023 3:44 PM
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comunity property? (by mike [MA]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2023 6:02 PM
So my wife and I aren't getting along very well,..We have been together for 30 years,..she has had some health problems and decided that an hour and a half drive was too much for her,..so she purchased a condo in Boston (expensive)
We I had some health concerns and I thought it was good to ad her to the 8 apt buildings that I purchased before we were married,..
So now we had our first real argument in all those years ,its about the house I now live in,..for five years I have been paying the utilities, the landscaping ,the taxes ins etc,..
On THIS house she paid a bit less than half . We both had cash so we did that we didn't have a mortgage.
So I'm thinking she might force a sale of this place, She said loudly in her visit here recently several times, that " I own half this house!" (she didn't like a few things that I have done recently,..she doesn't visit for months and mainly when she does just to get some of her things and take them back to Boston,
My question, do I have any claim to the condo in Boston? True that I have no money invested in it,..but it was acquired while we were married,..and she could buy it because of our two jobs ,..she never paid for anything in the home we lived in all those years allowing her to save money.
Now to be clear, I DON"T want any of her assets in her condo, but to perhaps use it as leverage if she trys to force me to sell other assets.
comunity property? (by Frank [NJ]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2023 6:25 PM
Good gawd man
Get thee to an attorney for a consult.
Equitable distribution is state specific --173.63.xx.xxx
comunity property? (by RB [TN]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2023 6:28 PM
Seek Legal advice, ASAP.
Preferably a Woman Attorney.
Yours truly is probably steps ahead of you.
comunity property? (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2023 6:41 PM
Attorney time. --172.58.xxx.xxx
comunity property? (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2023 8:03 PM
Might try getting advice from an attorney near you. This is not really a landlord issue. Sorry, send flowers and make up, you'll be money ahead --172.59.xxx.xxx
comunity property? (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2023 8:17 PM
Sad time in life you describe,I suggest leaning on your or her pastor to get a few pep talks - they are best when both attend --184.59.xxx.xx
comunity property? (by Bonanza [NC]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2023 8:20 PM
Having been through it, you are about to be hosed. At least get a consult with an attorney before things turn sour.
When the assets are divided and appraised, your assets will appraise high and all her stuff will magically appraise low. Things like property, cash, collectibles, will appraise high. All sorts of things like clothes, jewelry, craft supplies, and whatever other trinkets she has will appraise low.
If you can make your assets appear to be less now before things get ugly that would be good. Spend lots of money on trips, clothes, boats, airplanes, cars, and non tangible items.
There is nothing fair and equitable about a fair and equitable divorce.
comunity property? (by mike [MA]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2023 8:32 PM
Thank you,..I guess I need to find a attorney that is knowledgeable in this area,.In dealing with other RE matters over the years , the few times I have consulted "AN" attorney,.I have some knowledgeable ones,..but not always in the area I was looking for,..
Also perhaps a complicating thing is she did have a long serious operation. which she seems to have come out well in many ways,..but she now seems like a different person, I don't know if it was because of the long time being "under" the anesthesia, or a small clot thrown lodging in the brain, or the fact of being traumatized of coming close to death, Her thinking, her personality is not quite the same.
I wouldn't think of abandoning her due to illness, but I don't think she wants to be with me anymore. It was like a switch was flipped right after the operation.She went from a very loving/caring person to almost resenting me quickly after the surgery,.
Very sad for me,.. --66.30.xx.xxx
comunity property? (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2023 8:45 PM
It might be cheaper to see if you can reconcile. Have you considered asking her to seek the services of a marriage counselor? --209.205.xxx.xx
comunity property? (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2023 9:09 PM
Is the condo Community Property?
The deciding factor is not that it was purchased during the marriage. The deciding factor is, whose money was it purchased with. Was it Community Money?
You say that she paid about half, you paid about half. The amount she paid, was it with community money (she worked during the marriage for it), same with you? or, did she pay for all of it, herself, with separate property?
If it was paid for with community money, then its community property. Was it with partly community money, partly separate money? Then by purchasing the house, money was "co-mingled" and the property is community.
comunity property? (by mike [MA]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2023 9:15 PM
Re marriage counselor/clergy etc, I know her well enough that I'm sure she wouldn't and esp now would think I'm trying to manipulate her.
I appreciate the suggestion/s but after our talk today,..I can say she wouldn't. --66.30.xx.xxx
comunity property? (by mike [MA]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2023 9:22 PM
To Moshe, well the fact she didn't pay for much all the years we were married,..she built quite a nest agg to be about to buy have this house and her condo,..
I'm guessing that it would be hard to introduce in a legal proceeding. --66.30.xx.xxx
comunity property? (by Ed [CA]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2023 9:26 PM
Get a family law attorney. Don't listen to advice on a LL board for divorce settlement questions. MA is not considered a community property state, but after 30 years, you're in for a ride. --108.201.xx.xx
comunity property? (by Still Learning [NH]) Posted on: Jun 6, 2023 10:15 PM
Lawyer up but after that if there is any way to do mediation it might put more money in both your pockets vs the lawyers. --75.67.xxx.xxx
comunity property? (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Jun 7, 2023 12:03 AM
I don't know anything about MA, including if they consider community property or not, but ...
How did she build the nest egg?
Did she work for it while she was married? Then its community money.
Regardless of whether MA has community property, or all the advice to get a lawyer ...
IF you can salvage enough trust to work together with her to reach a fair settlement you would be very wise. This is one case where you really don't want a lawyer, except to advise you and file documents, but NOTHING MORE!
Lawyers are worse than Real Estate agents. They will build up a case to get more money, and destroy whatever you two had together.
Does her Doctor know anything about her post-operative depression? Try the hospital. My hospital (Cedars-Sinai in Los Angeles) has departments that deal holistically with ALL FACETS of medical problems, including surgery, post-surgery, post-surgical depressions, psychological syndromes. They have whole departments to deal with such problems.
Maybe there is hope after all. Don't give up on her, and maybe she will appreciate you after all.
Did you ever think of seeing someone yourself, so that you can learn what she may be going through and be better able to support her?
comunity property? (by MC [PA]) Posted on: Jun 7, 2023 6:37 AM
Working it out between financially is cheaper than a lawyer-I agree with Moshe. Sometimes it is hard to pull the plug on a relationship, no matter how long. Do what you feel is best. --73.230.xxx.xx
comunity property? (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Jun 7, 2023 7:33 AM
I'm very sorry for your troubles, but reading that, even though I don't know the big picture and what your normal is between the two of you, I'm wondering if any of it is an early sign of Alzheimer's or dementia? If it's her normal, I apologize for bringing it up-- but if it's not her normal, I would get more eyes on her to see what can be done early on before she does something truly damaging. --137.118.xx.xxx
comunity property? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jun 7, 2023 8:20 AM
I'm so sorry to hear about this situation. I can't imagine how devastating that must be to have a "flip of the switch" that turns someone from loving and caring to resentful.
Any chance at all you guys are in a good church or have some spiritual adviser that you could talk to? This sounds like it's 95% a heart problem rather than a money/property problem. That's just the potential fall out.
This isn't intended as a lecture, just a perspective. When my wife and I got married, we had the understanding that we both owned all of everything. There was no "my half of the house, your half of the house... my bank account, your bank account....my debt, your debt."
It was OUR house, OUR bank account, OUR debt, etc. As people used to say in the old marriage vows: "Unto thee I pledge all my worldly goods." We committed to be in it together, through thick and thin: one heart, one mind, one financial base.
I don't know if you guys did the same. It sounds like probably not. That's what is feeding into this "my half, your half" scenario. I'd try to re-establish some sort of understanding about your joint commitment first.
If she wants "half" what she's really asking for is a complete and total split of everything. Doesn't matter that you don't want to leave. She wants out even if those aren't the words coming out of her mouth. You don't just take half of a house and then stay married in any way, shape or form. That's the thing that has to be addressed first: what's going to be the ongoing status of your relationship? Get that straightened out. If you can't heal the split, then it's time to just sell and chop it in half. You'll spend more money on lawyers fighting it out in court than you'll save.
Again, so sorry to hear about this.
comunity property? (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Jun 7, 2023 9:02 AM
Sorry-- posted in a hurry and no edit button--- I had meant to mention that, in the presence of Alzheimer's or dementia or even the aftereffects of a stroke that was never spotted while it was happening-- it's very much a brain chemistry problem. So a person's resolve to conduct themselves in a certain way, or improve themselves, or even identify a problem correctly, is often insufficient in the face of wonky brain chemistry.
So that's why it's good to get the extra eyes on a situation from the medical pov, to give a name to it and then have a strategy to manage it with the knowledge of what you're dealing with, rather than being frustrated because a situation is deteriorating and someone is acting uncooperative and contrary to their own best interests.
It might be something totally different. But I thought it was important to bring it up for consideration.
comunity property? (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Jun 7, 2023 10:54 AM
...It was OUR house, OUR bank account, OUR debt, etc. As people used to say in the old marriage vows: "Unto thee I pledge all my worldly goods." We committed to be in it together, through thick and thin: one heart, one mind, one financial base....
I also think this is how it should be if you get married young and are starting out. For whatever reason, I took this post to be that they married later and had separate significant assets... and that changes everything, especially when either (or both) parties have children. However, it should be been taken care of prior to marriage or at the time her name was put on "his" property. --98.237.xxx.xx
comunity property? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jun 7, 2023 12:37 PM
It saddens me to hear about this. It is a trap that I found myself in a few years back. It is my hope that the two of you can make things right - to do so will require the TWO of you see it in your hearts. I found that balancing act a hard one to accomplish.
If the two you can't make amends, then stop the bleed. Agree on the things that he two of you can agree upon. Get attorney's to work out the things the two of you can't. Expect this to be five figure problem with legal fees - each. That alone should inspire the two of you to try to agree on at least the minimum of terms.
The answer about community property can sometimes be cloudy. Knowing when to lawyer up, is critical. As other have said, you are probably already there --24.101.xxx.xxx
comunity property? (by Mike45 [NV]) Posted on: Jun 7, 2023 3:02 PM
I do not even know if Mass is a community property state.
You need to consult with a Mass Family Law specialist (if the Mass Bar recognizes this specialty). ASAP. --71.38.xxx.xx
comunity property? (by Jim [OH]) Posted on: Jun 7, 2023 4:58 PM
Your wife has already divorced you. Have her served and break up the empire. She bought a condo in Boston with half of your money that you're entitled to?
Mary would never have done that to Joseph. --184.57.xxx.xx
comunity property? (by mike [MA]) Posted on: Jun 7, 2023 7:25 PM
Wow,...Thank you for all the great advice, I'm filtering through it and weighing what might be best in my situation.
Yes we both married later and both came with assets and bank accounts. Neither of us have children. We never fought about finances before. As I said, we never had an argument for over 30 years. Although neither one of us are pushovers, and we always didn't totally agree on everything, we just never fought about things. As I said before the operation I would say we were a very loving And caring couple.
I can't tell you how much your concerns has meant to me. It's taken my stress and despair levels down a number of important notches.
Who says that landlords don't have compassion! For you to take the time in your busy days you try to help is amazing and something I will never forget. Again, thank you so much!
comunity property? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jun 7, 2023 8:01 PM
"Mary would never have done that to Joseph"
Jim, how do you know this?
mike, I hope things work out for your family.
comunity property? (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Jun 7, 2023 9:15 PM
As one who does marriage counseling through our church let me give you another perspective. It likely wasn't the operation. My best guess is one of two things happened, both are VERY common in couples I meet with. It has been a long slow fade that you haven't recognized until she finally had enough and wants something better (an indicator here is when you said you all don't resolve conflict, a sure sign of a slow fade). The other likely explanation is she got ticked over something you did (or didn't do) while she was going through her medical issues and recovery and since you haven't asked for forgiveness she is done. By the way, she may not have said anything about it assuming you should know what it was.
Either way, you are assuming you know she will say no. If you are honest about wanting to restore the relationship what harm is there in asking her to sit through a few sessions with you? Worst she can do is say no. --209.205.xxx.xx
comunity property? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jun 7, 2023 9:57 PM
My divorce was costly.
I am not so much talking about financial either. Truth of the matter, you can always make the money back. During it, I found myself even more focused on rebounding financially.
Nope - I am talking about about the negative thoughts that go on inside of you. You will feel rejected, isolated, alone and scared. How are you supposed to able to make the real estate investment job flow smoothly when you find yourself asking what exactly went wrong? Why am I chopped liver? What could I do differently? What options do I have?
For me, there were symptoms before hand but that trigger - that domino that fell was was an insurance claim on a property that was arsoned. I felt compelled to give 120% to get 41 homeless families back into their homes. Those long days made her feel unloved. COVID, a Presidential impeachment, her breaking ankle in the middle of winter in the lake effect snow belt all just tossed more and more crap on to the heap.
Reducing hours down to seven eight hours a day wasn't enough. Remember this is when the government was shutting down everything. When every day that place is empty is costing you over $30,000 and the government prevents you from bringing in contractors - Things are not so pretty on the forced unscheduled rehab job.
At the same time, if you are stuck at home on the couch what will you be doing? Watching the Covid news and talking to her parents who never did like that their daughter marring a guy from that other side of the tracks. She was worried about loosing her job and she actually got laid off from the college for the first time in her life from a semi Ivy league school.
She came from a much different back ground and that was too much for us to overcome in the end. I am retired military who worked through college she earned a Masters degree before age 23. A benefit I have though that when you get knocked hard on your butt, you are trained to get up and brush off the dirt. You will absolutely hurt but never like you have before.
If you are going to go through a divorce, you will be stumbling and you probably even fall. Be prepared to brush
your dirt off. Believe me though, you didn't get married to get divorced - do what you need to do so you can sleep soundly knowing that you gave your marriage 120% effort. You both deserve that.
Please learn from my mistakes. --24.101.xxx.xxx
comunity property? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jun 7, 2023 10:11 PM
Ray is one tough sailor. Pretty smart too. --73.190.xxx.xxx
comunity property? (by tryan [MA]) Posted on: Jun 8, 2023 11:41 AM
In my divorce it was a lot of resentment when I left a six-figure engineering job to LL full time. She stayed in her school job for the top-notch healthcare.
EVERYTHING accumulated over the 25+ years was split 60-40. Including S-corp assets she had nothing to do with. Yep, she got 60% AFTER TAX. Which really made it more like 75-25 with the 15% long term capitol gains. No affaires, no financial improprieties , no drug use. Just a "grey-divorce" ... grey haired people who become empty nesters. One looks at the other and says "I am NOT spending the next 30 years ALONE WITH YOU"
I honestly didn't care about getting screwed in the split. I knew I'ld make it back. If she was miserable the kids would suffer. So let her have it.
As I drove away from the lawyers office after signing the divorce decree, I said "this is a BEGINING NOT AN ENDING. I wonder how long it will take to reacquire what was lost." Last year I got my answer ... 6 years. --198.168.xx.xxx
comunity property? (by mike [MA]) Posted on: Jun 10, 2023 2:54 PM
Thank you again guys for taking the time and for the comments and advice, believe me,..it has been helpful and appreciated,..
However about "getting it back" (assets if we get a divorce) I'm getting long in the tooth for that to happen much, however I see a story on the Internet about some "experts " saying they believe that mufti unit housing is expected to increase in value 30%,.but I have a hard time to believe that,(?)
Anyway without a divorce, could she make me move out of the house that I live now and force a sale? (yes its time to find the proper type of lawyer and I'm currently searching for one )
Or force the sales of my other properties as I had put her name on the properties about 4 years ago. --73.4.xxx.xx
comunity property? (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: Jun 10, 2023 5:59 PM
Sounds like you need a good lawyer and a good mistress. --174.206.xxx.xx
comunity property? (by Jim in O C [CA]) Posted on: Jun 10, 2023 6:37 PM
Lawyer time to get your affairs in order. --67.169.xxx.xx
comunity property? (by Laura [MD]) Posted on: Jun 10, 2023 10:13 PM
No advise, just wishing you the best. OK, maybe a little advice. As someone who is long divorced, know you will get over this and there will be bright days ahead. --108.56.xxx.xx
comunity property? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jun 11, 2023 8:29 PM
I love Tyran and Laura's Sage advise.
This too shall pass and you will be a stronger person from it. Does it make hurt less ABSOLUTELY NOT. --24.101.xxx.xxx
comunity property? (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jun 12, 2023 8:22 AM
I found a good song was comforting. I labeled it, a theme song. The tunes changed over the course of events. But it's not so lonely that way. --172.59.xxx.xx
comunity property? (by Salernitana [CA]) Posted on: Jun 19, 2023 3:44 PM
I too have no answer to your questions about if she could move out of the house where you live or force a sale of it and/or your other properties. I hope so much that the discussion will give you tools to figure out your relationship. May you and your wife find her source of anger and pain to understand it and hopefully resolve it to continue in the marriage if that could be an option.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. --67.170.xxx.xxx
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