M2M short duration stay

For the LLs who only do M2M, how do you avoid people who only stay for a few months then move? Doesn't that turnover really hurt the bottom line? --68.56.xxx.xx

M2M short duration stay (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: May 26, 2023 6:42 PM
Message:

Moving sucks. Why would anybody move so quickly?

I get jobs change but it’s never been an issue for me. I get turnovers when I used to try to lock tenants into another year. Now they know they have the freedom to move whenever they want…they just don’t. --71.63.xx.xx

M2M short duration stay (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: May 26, 2023 7:09 PM
Message:

I set the terms. Executive leasing and a higher rate and a bigger deposit. For month to month for a year - the year locks in the price for a year, they are renting for 12 months. Yes turn over cost unless it's back to back. There are plenty of Extended Stay hotels and such for only a few months. I suppose you could enter a six month lease, or just ask a higher amount or have an Early Termination fee that they pay upfront and then get credit for it after three months or something. Think creative! --172.58.xx.x

M2M short duration stay (by Johnny B. [MA]) Posted on: May 26, 2023 7:40 PM
Message:

I only do M2M. I ask people as part of the screening what their plan is —long term vs. short term. I generally won’t pursue anyone that looking for short term. Of course this doesn’t prevent people from still leaving early even if their plan is to stay longer term, but it’s never been an issue for me. I only do M2M because it’s hard enough to get rid of a bad tenant in this state so I don’t want the confines of a lease to further complicate the situation. --73.60.xx.xxx

M2M short duration stay (by Jasper [OH]) Posted on: May 26, 2023 8:12 PM
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I have only done M2M for over 30 years. Like Jason(VA) said, they have the freedom to move, but they don't. Almost all my tenants are long term. I've only had 2 or 3 in all the years that left after a short time, and those left the unit move-in ready. --71.28.xx.xxx

M2M short duration stay (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: May 26, 2023 10:16 PM
Message:

You can write your contract to make a lease for some minimum term, and then specify in the contract that it (the tenancy) becomes MTM after that minimum term.

--47.139.xx.xxx

M2M short duration stay (by NED [AL]) Posted on: May 27, 2023 1:15 AM
Message:

If you are a "good" landlord (aka- treat people fair, fix stuff etc)... even those on mtm don't move willy nilly. --74.132.x.xx

M2M short duration stay (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: May 27, 2023 11:03 AM
Message:

Very short turns suck away my freedom and profits. Ideally, I need a tenant to stay for 2 years, but I go one year with annual renewals.

So the only way it makes sense to me is to charge a significant premium: if a tenant wants to go M2M after the first year, I charge 20% above their current rate.

But if you're just wanting them to stay at least x-months, then write your contract for X-months and then have it renew M2M after that period. I've never seen a law saying you can't have a 3, 6, or 9 month rental agreement. --184.4.xx.xxx

M2M short duration stay (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: May 27, 2023 4:39 PM
Message:

David,

People move when they want, no matter what the lease says.

We don't lose residents to lower rents, we lose them to life changes - #1 is divorce/split, then transfers or buying.

These come at ANY time.

Because I use a yearly lease I make A LOT of money from Early Lease Termination Fees -several extra months of rent every year.

SOME states (NY, MA, WA, CA...) have strict laws against LLs so a MTM can be easier than trying to evict for non-payment.

BRAD --73.103.xxx.xxx

M2M short duration stay (by Ed [CA]) Posted on: May 27, 2023 6:14 PM
Message:

I think it depends on your market. In my area, I quit doing leases nearly 30 years ago and don't regret it a bit. My turnover rate has not been problematic. There's no advantage to me to do a lease. With MTM, I can change the terms of the agreement when I want to deal with any tenant issues that need to be addressed - try doing that with a 12 month lease. --108.201.xx.xx

M2M short duration stay (by PG [SC]) Posted on: May 27, 2023 8:58 PM
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I have been a small time LL, with two or three SFH for over 20 years. For me, most all of the tenants I had moved because of life changes. Almost all stayed at least a year. Five years ago I started M2M for the control. At 72 and retired the M2M is the Best fit for me.

Case in point. I have a very good tenant now on M2M that always wants a long term lease. I have a yearly update to the M2M. She always ask about a one year lease that I will Not give her. She has been there four years. --75.105.xx.xx

M2M short duration stay (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: May 28, 2023 10:28 AM
Message:

You can't force tenants to stay. If they are month to month, they can just leave, and if they have a lease, they can just leave. You can't stop them from leaving. --76.178.xxx.xxx

M2M short duration stay (by GLR [MA]) Posted on: May 31, 2023 1:34 PM
Message:

When I do MTM, I go with a term of 120 days. If I go with a hard date lease, I end it on 5/31.

On both instances, I follow up with an email with a modest increase (if I need to) on about 2/1. This usually lets me know if they plan to leave.

I can still get screwed over if someone tells me in august that they will be leaving in December, but at least I'll get a head start on marketing/finding other people.

--73.17.xxx.xx

M2M short duration stay (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: May 31, 2023 2:41 PM
Message:

I do m2m because I can't garnish. I'm not going to bind myself to a stricter set of rules than my tenants are willing to play by.

When you're talking to people, you get an idea as to what their intentions are.

Some people are in town for a certain period of time-- for example, we have people who build/maintain/clean wind farms. They have a rough idea as to how long they'll be in the area before their company moves them along. Or there might be people here on H2B visas. You automatically all know that they arrive in Feb/Mar/Apr/May (whenever their invitation is issued), but regardless of start date, they'll be out by Halloween. Or perhaps people are in the area for dove/deer season. You know that you're looking at Labor Day through the New Year-- unless they're interested in the Special Season, which extends things a few weeks.

So, those are the short-term people I like the best.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, you have your people who are anxious and jittery. Their spouse/so/roommate is tired of their shenanigans. Perhaps they're living on someone's couch. They're in a frustrating situation. They want to be gone, now. They don't want my house because it's an awesome house that's suitable for their needs--- they want my house because it's Not Where They Are Right Now. Before, I didn't mind dealing with the desperate, either-- I traditionally raise rents at turnover in my market, so my smallest places were the best at keeping up with market rates. I would usually expect those sorts of people to last about six months each, and the sorts of places that attract them to turn over twice in a year. And that was okay, too-- they were people whose lives were in flux, who needed a cheap place to stay for a period of time, while they figured out what they were doing next. There's always people whose lives are in flux, so those places were always filled.

Everyone's patterns changed during the shutdowns. Everyone hunkered down. They tended to keep their jobs rather than bouncing from job to job. They tended to keep their homes rather than bouncing to a new home. They wanted to control what they could control. Relationships and family situations were still the biggest factors that would lead someone to give notice, though.

The caveat is--- all those houses in my experience are going to be blue-collar 1920's-1950's 500-800-1200 sf sfh's. So if you have a mass-produced 4000 sf house with an HOA in a homogeneous development, your mileage will definitely vary, because the people who are shopping in those neighborhoods are going to be very different from the people in my tenant pool. But at the end of the day-- you still screen for stability. You'll get the random one-offs, like someone who moves into your area as a new hire, and then they get included in layoffs three months later, or their parents get cancer and they want to be closer, or whatever. But ultimately, my goal is that I only want people in my houses who like being in my houses--- and if their life takes them somewhere else, I prefer to have my house back, so I can rerent it to someone who actually needs it. --137.118.xx.xxx

M2M short duration stay (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jun 1, 2023 12:32 AM
Message:

Depends on the class of tenant. For c class, I go m2m. Generally, with decent housing being in short supply, short stays aren't an issue. In addition, I have the flexibility to change terms, raise rent or terminate if the tenant is a problem. --209.122.xx.xxx

M2M short duration stay (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jun 2, 2023 3:41 PM
Message:

thanks for the comments. There are two issues that m2m causes me

1) the topic here, people who move out after a short duration. High turnover.

2) people who move out in the low season, between labor day and memorial day. Very hard to fill vacancies, even then $200-300 below summer rents

So , while I cannot force someone to stay who does not want, I can at least make it very expensive for them to break their lease and make up for my losses . My ELT used be 2 months rent, after a brutal winter with two vacancies (even though both paid ELT), I'm now upping that to 3 months rent. --68.56.xxx.xx

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