Marcia,

Renting is a people business. Your resident is a crab.

Don’t take any of her complaints personally.

The thing about people moving in and out - pfft! That’s just a cheap excuse to cover her own problems.

Fix this: NEVER rely on a res completing the Move In Inspection form. My judge says it is more valuable than the lease. It and your 100+ move in photos are your ONLY defense when they lie saying “It was stained when I moved in.”

I do the walk-through myself, before they arrive. If they see something only I will write on the form. I do not walk them around the house allowing them to nitpick. They signed the form. It is stapled in my lease so it Is not forgotten or lost.

Stay in control.

"the oven and cooktop were still dirty and there was a little vaccuuming that had to be done. "

If you are satisfied that you are right to deduct from the deposit, then why haven't you done it and moved on?

Financial details of a departing tenant are generally pretty cut-and-dried. Does WI OR your lease have any standard for what level of cleanliness is due on move-out?

Sounds to me that you are getting into a level of childishness in worrying about who has the upper hand, instead of just worrying about getting your apartment cleaned and re-rented. You MUST know that you can charge the deposit for the REASONABLE cost of making the oven grates shiny and vacuuming whatever needs o be vacuumed (subject to review bu judge). So why are you making such a fuss over such trivia?

Given your control attitude, I can see why she needs to leverage the possibility that you will STILL not be satisfied with the apartment. It all seems pretty childish to me. Why can't you settle this like adults?

You wrote: So she now sent me a text stating that she is done but she has the keys and will keep them until I confirm with her that things are left satisfactorily and that she will be receiving her full deposit back.

**** Just accept this. Text her RECEIVED, your security deposit will be returned according to state law. And then go change the locks. Rekey or whatever you do. If your lease addresses the key issue then charge her for that. And any cleaning not done. And do this according to your written agreement and your state laws

MOshe (CA). When I checked the apartment after she said was was completely moved out and cleaned, I noticed the oven and cooktop still dirty. It was then that I gave her this information and gave her the opportunity to remedy the situation and make it like it was when she moved in as that is what my lease states. Now she has remedied the situation (or so she says) and wanted me to do a final walk through and she would return the keys. I told her I would go down there during the day when she is working and that she can leave the keys on the counter. That's how I do it with everyone else. She has been a PITA from the start. Here's another example, a couple months back she notified me that the side door lock was unlocked. She was the only one that had the code to this lock as nobody has used this door in 20 years, but she had to use it. I asked her questions to try and trouble shoot the situation as best I could and offered to come down and review operation of the lock as this lock was new to me as well. And her response to me was, "I was just letting you know. END OF DISCUSSION!"

"I was just letting you know. END OF DISCUSSION!"

Personally, I wouldn't do anything more until Monday, 05/01/2023. First thing Monday, I would change the locks, secure the mailbox & inspect the apartment. If I found that she hadn't removed all of her possessions & properly cleaned the apartment, I would just have them taken care of. Any costs involved with returning the apartment to move in condition would get listed in her SD accounting. I'd send this accounting along with either a check or a bill to her last known address. If she hadn't provided me with a new address, I just send it (making sure I got proof of mailing) to her at the apartment's address. Presuming she filed a change of address she should receive it. If for any reason it comes back to me, I'd just keep it & save it in case we ever end up in court over this.

I'm curious how long did she actually live there & was she on a MTM tenancy or a term lease? If it was MTM, did she give proper notice of her intentions to vacate? If it was a term lease would April 30, 2023, have been the end of the term? If she didn't give proper notice, why aren't you dinging her for either May's rent or the lost rent until you find a suitable replacement tenant?

I have no reason to believe that what I asked her to reclean will be taken care of. Right now it is a matter of her wanting me to come down to the apartment and re-inspect and tell her everything is acceptable and she then returns the keys when I have asked her I will just do the re-inspection and she can leave the keys on the counter.

Steve (MA) She has lived in the apartment since last August, 2021 and she was on a MTM and did give proper notice to vacate by April 30, 2023. A suitable tenant has been found to start on May 15, 2023. I also know that all of her stuff is out of the apartment as I was down there yesterday and there is nothing left.

correction--August, 2022 only 8 months she has lived in the apartment

correction--August, 2022 only 8 months she has lived in the apartment

In MA the clock for returning SDs start when possession of the unit is properly returned to the LL. As stated in my rental agreements they end at 4:00 PM on the last day of the tenancy. In this case she would have until 4:00 PM on Sunday, April 30, 2023, to return the keys.

In MA when we take a SD, one of our state mandated requirements is that we have to provide a written statement of condition of the unit. The actual wording of the SOC has some very specific terms that must be included. One thing is the following:

Apartment Condition Statement

This is a statement of the condition of the premises you have leased or rented. Please read it carefully to be sure it is

correct. If it is correct, sign and date below. You may want to make a copy for your records. If you sign it, you agree that

the list is correct and complete. If it is not correct, you must attach a separate signed list of any damage which you

believe exists in the premises.

This statement must be returned to the Landlord, Lessor or Agent within 15 days after you receive it or within 15 days

after you move in, whichever is later. If you do not return this statement within the specified time period, a court may

later view your failure to return it as your agreement that the list is complete and correct in any suit which you may bring to recover the security deposit.

At lease signing as part of their move in packet I have a list of items that the tenant signs acknowledging that they have received various items one of which is the statement of condition. You could do something similar.

When I come across situations such as this, I find myself referring back to the 2 basic rules of LLing that Aldo, a wise LL from your neck of the woods told me:

1. The Landlord is in charge.

2. The tenant is not in charge.

What I would do:

In an email (better than text, accepted in court) I would acknowledge her text, sent on (time & day), stating she has vacated, and that you acknowledge receipt of the return of the premises to you, and that you will follow WI law for the proper accounting of the security deposit.

If she does not reply "no, I'm not out yet", then you're good to go. Start getting it cleaned & ready to show.

Any other inappropriate response is kept in her file, but ignored.

Marcia,

Your level of immaturity about being "in control" is the sole cause of your underlying difficulty.

You simply refuse to understand that BOTH PARTIES have a stake and rights and obligations here, not just you. Any educated adult knows how to successfully negotiate such a simple matter as this.

You want your apartment clean, so does she, because she wants her deposit back. She asks for a final walk-through to verify your satisfaction, you reply that you would go down there during the day when she is working and that she can leave the keys on the counter. That you do it that way with everyone else doesn't make it the right way. It is such an arrogance on your part, no wonder you have to seek advice about what to do next. For refusing to perform a request for a mutual final walk-through, many judges would take that as admission that the tenant is right.

As usual, CA is the leader in addressing and solving problems. CA law REQUIRES that LL offer a preliminary inspection giving tenant an opportunity to be present, and requires negotiation about when. I believe that you don't want her to be present because you want your opinion to be final and DISCUSSION TO BE ENDED. I think that many (if not most) judges in CA would think that, too.

Times have changed, and landlords are no longer in position of dictators. Tenants have rights, too, and judges expect both landlords & tenants to reasonably negotiate and come to a fair settlement BY THEMSELVES, especially on trivia like your complaint.

You are acting just like a child, insisting that you will be the final arbiter of whether she gets her deposit back or not, and that's your final word. You want END OF DISCUSSION on solely your terms. But these days, she has rights too, and that's a good thing.

It your controlling attitude that got you into this very minor mess. Get over it.

Hanging around to learn, but I do have a few questions here.

Did she give you any form of written notice?

How did she give notice?

Regarding notice:

Only Marcia can answer your questions about notice, but does it make any difference to her immediate problem?

The immediate problem is that Marcia will withhold from the deposit unless tenant cleans to Marcia's satisfaction and releases keys, but Marcia won't accommodate inspection with tenant present, including requiring advance deposit of keys.

Are questions about notice relevant to this problem?

Relevance is important foe getting down to the heart of a problem to make meaningful discussion.

We tell tenants that we only do security deposits by mail in the state required time frame. I would not commit to there being no damage because frequently there are things found on final cleaning. (My favorite was the bedroom door a dog chewed lightly so wasn’t noticeable on a quick inspection.)

Had that happen to me a year or so ago.

Walked into the bathroom, all was fine. Once I got back to it for painting I closed the door and saw that the dog had been locked in there for a long while. Clawed almost thru to the other side. Hollow core.

The real problem came when I tried to match the door and found the width was different. Had to replace the frame and all. Then the base trim didn't match up because the frame was a little off.

Fortunately I had not sent the deposit back. The tenants actually moved to a house I had opened up. We had a long discussion about the mutt and the damages.

Another reason to have rents for the animals.