SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Tony [NJ]) Mar 17, 2023 8:22 AM|
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by mapleaf18 [NY]) Mar 17, 2023 8:31 AM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by S i d [MO]) Mar 17, 2023 8:47 AM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Busy [WI]) Mar 17, 2023 11:00 AM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by John... [MI]) Mar 17, 2023 11:42 AM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Busy [WI]) Mar 17, 2023 11:48 AM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by MikeA [TX]) Mar 17, 2023 11:54 AM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by hubba hubba [CA]) Mar 17, 2023 12:02 PM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Allym [NJ]) Mar 17, 2023 12:09 PM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Mar 17, 2023 12:20 PM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Chris [CT]) Mar 17, 2023 12:24 PM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Still Learning [NH]) Mar 17, 2023 1:10 PM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by DJ [VA]) Mar 18, 2023 8:11 AM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Busy [WI]) Mar 18, 2023 8:14 AM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by mapleaf18 [NY]) Mar 18, 2023 8:22 AM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by don [PA]) Mar 18, 2023 12:24 PM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by don [PA]) Mar 18, 2023 12:25 PM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Busy [WI]) Mar 18, 2023 11:33 PM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by don [PA]) Mar 19, 2023 2:27 AM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Busy [WI]) Mar 19, 2023 1:29 PM
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SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Tony [NJ]) Posted on: Mar 17, 2023 8:22 AM
br eitba rt com
San Francisco Bay Area Bans Gas Furnaces and Water Heaters
Joel B. Pollak
Regulators in the San Francisco Bay Area voted Wednesday to eliminate the sale and installation of natural gas-powered furnaces and water heaters over eight years beginning in 2027, ostensibly to limit air pollution.
The vote was the latest step taken by lef t-wing jurisdictions against natural gas — a convenient and relatively clean-burning source of fuel.
The San Francisco Chronicle reported (original links):
Bay Area regulators voted Wednesday to adopt rules to phase out the sale and installation of natural-gas furnaces and water heaters over the next eight years, one of the most ambitious plans in the country to replace gas appliances with electric alternatives.
The rules, approved by the Bay Area Air Quality Management District, are meant to reduce air pollution from some of the worst home-appliance offenders. The main pollutants targeted are nitrogen oxides, or NOx, which can cause acid rain and smog as well as increase risk for asthma and other respiratory diseases.
People will be able to repair their gas appliances if they break — but the rules take effect when existing gas-powered furnaces or water heaters no longer work and need to be replaced. New construction will also be required to have zero-NOx — effectively, electric — furnaces and water heaters.
The new policy does not affect gas stoves, but follows a 2020 decision by the San Francisco Board of Supervisors to ban the installation of natural gas lines in new buildings. It also comes just weeks after a controversy over a proposal by the B iden administration to consider banning the sale of new gas stoves.
Demo crats oppose natural gas, even though its adoption has allowed the U.S. to produce fewer carbon dioxide emissions while growing its economy, because it is still a fossil fuel and is often extracted through fracking.
Elsewhere in Los Angeles, the “Green New Deal” proposed by then-Mayor Eric Garcetti (confirmed Wednesday as U.S. Ambassador to India) seeks to phase out natural gas power plants, despite possible electricity shortages.
Joel B. Pollak is Senior Editor-at-Large at Br eit bart News and the host of Bre itbar t News Sunday on Sirius XM Patriot on Sunday evenings from 7 p.m. to 10 p.m. ET (4 p.m. to 7 p.m. PT). He is the author of the new biography, Rhoda: ‘Comrade Kadalie, You Are Out of Order’. He is also the author of the recent e-book, Neither Free nor Fair: The 2020 U.S. Presidential Election. He is a winner of the 2018 Robert Novak Journalism Alumni Fellowship. Follow him on Twitter at @joelpollak. --73.215.xxx.xx
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by mapleaf18 [NY]) Posted on: Mar 17, 2023 8:31 AM
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Mar 17, 2023 8:47 AM
It's great that we have 50 states so the Lefties can use their state to experiment on their gerbils... I mean "citizens"... and the rest of us can watch and evaluate how it goes.
"Starting in 2027..." plenty of time to undo/challenge/etc. If they were serious about doing something regarding climate change they would've had it start immediately.
What's next: ban outdoor cooking/BBQ? Those evil bits o' charcoal...
Unforeseen (?) consequences:
1) Many older houses without enough space in the electric panel to handle two added, dedicated 220 V circuits to run electric furnaces and water heater will require retro fit. Last I checked an up to code refit ran around $5000 - $10,000.
2) Neighborhoods without sufficient infrastructure to handle added load will have to have line, transformers, etc upgraded. Cost: who knows?
3) When (not if) the power goes out... no furnace heat and no hot water. If they get the stoves eventually, then no cooking either.
4) Electricity costs more than natural gas. Expect increase of 20-50% for power bills.
5) Peak demand hours will require more generation capacity throughout the state. Cost: who knows?
6) Costs to build out infrastructure, generation capacity, and retrofitting of older homes will be heavily subsidized by US taxpayers, as usual, increasing national debt and contributing to high inflation since we'll have to print the money to do it. Increased cost of utilities will likewise need to be subsidized.
Who knows, though? Maybe CA will finally wake up and realize they're going to have to build nuclear plants to make any of this even remotely make sense economically. A few years of darkness and cold might freeze the progressive genes out of them.
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 17, 2023 11:00 AM
Much, much, much better would be to ban lawn grass. No. No, no, scratch that. I do NOT LIKE banning things. Instead, encourage planting native, trees, shrubs, forbs and flowers, encouraging lawn grass be limited to a play space.
And, in sunny Cali, a solar water pre-heater could reduce natural gas water heater usage. We had one on a house in Colorado, and in summer, we turned the natural gas water heater off. A morning shower was a tad bit cool, but by ten AM, we had as much warm water as we wanted. Even had hot water for the babies diapers!
And to Sid's points: when we lived in Nebraska, it was popular there to have all electric houses, as they ( once) had the best nuclear power plant in the nation. We just weren't used to that, so put in gas furnace, water heater. Then, new president of the power company made serious errors, power plant was shut down. Power outages became common. Our natural gas fireplace would still light during those outages, and our skylights helped provide natural interior light, when those bathrooms would have otherwise been dark.
Eggs. Basket. Not all in one. --70.92.xxx.xxx
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Mar 17, 2023 11:42 AM
Sid: One minor note... If the power goes out, gas furnaces don't run either. And, for most modern water heaters, the same is true for gas models -- they also require electric service to run.
So, gas or electric for the heating source, if you are without power, you won't have heat or hot water with either.
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 17, 2023 11:48 AM
We bought gas generator. Now Ego brand has a battery powered generator too. Obviously, the batteries have to be charged before an event. --172.59.xx.xxx
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Mar 17, 2023 11:54 AM
How do you think the average Bay Area resident that owns a house will respond when it now costs over $10,000 to replace that gas water heater when it fails?
I predict there will be a flood of black market imports/installs in the coming years. --209.205.xxx.xx
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by hubba hubba [CA]) Posted on: Mar 17, 2023 12:02 PM
$10,000 ? Where are they buying their water heaters? --157.131.xxx.xx
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Allym [NJ]) Posted on: Mar 17, 2023 12:09 PM
Someone needs to figure out how to repair them. Someone will. Maybe all the bad guys will be extradited to the countries where they did bad things. Hungary is trying to extradite Soros. --71.188.xx.xxx
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Mar 17, 2023 12:20 PM
Does this mean clean burning oil fueled heaters will be the norm in that city as part of the new deal? Once the lights go out, people will understand the meaning green new deal. Will a politician have the courage to tell them they can't have their AC either?
I do however support any community's right to make mistakes.
We need to send our village idiot somewhere. --24.101.xxx.xxx
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Chris [CT]) Posted on: Mar 17, 2023 12:24 PM
Why would you even want a gas furnace in San Francisco?
Heat pumps have come such a long way and their climate is so temperate it seems like it would be a waste to have a gas furnace and an AC when a heat pump can do both.
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Still Learning [NH]) Posted on: Mar 17, 2023 1:10 PM
A gas fireplace will work with electricity out and has kept my house at 50 over a multi day power outage. My gas cooktop allows me to cook. I agree with multiple sources. --75.67.xxx.xxx
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2023 8:11 AM
My gas water heater & cook stove still work during a power outage. A small generator could power the circulating fan for a furnace & a refrigerator, but not a house full if electric baseboards --68.229.xxx.xxx
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2023 8:14 AM
Chris, there is that! I was amazed at Marin county's weather when we visited. There was a sign somewhere, probably the botanical garden, describing their weather. Very narrow range of weather, the range spanned only about fifty degrees. Heck, I've seen eighty degree temperature swings in just one day elsewhere in the country!
I think I'd get bored living in a place where seasonal highs and lows were only about forty degrees apart.
Still Learning, I'm with you. Multiple sources. --70.92.xxx.xxx
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by mapleaf18 [NY]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2023 8:22 AM
Time to start charging each tenant a $1000 "climate change" fee so that you'll have the reserves to start implementing such nonsense.
Chris, Yes SanFran has it's own little microclimate but have you seen the electric rates lately? --64.246.xxx.xx
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by don [PA]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2023 12:24 PM
Sid--The so called "Inflation Reduction Act" has grants to replace nat gas heaters with electric and also to upgrade the electric service capacity. So, unfortunately, those of us in all 50 states will be subsidizing California. --73.141.xxx.xxx
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by don [PA]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2023 12:25 PM
Ego--Battery powered "generators" are NOT generators at all. They do not generate any electricity; they just store it. They are batteries, that's it. --73.141.xxx.xxx
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 18, 2023 11:33 PM
True Don. Battery 'generators aren't anything more than a battery plus an outlet in which to plug an electrical cord. Not converting fuel. But, they could power up an appliance for a bit. I was looking in to them for use on the rental properties for some of my corded yard care tools. A bit too spendy though... just going to have to keep hauling the really long extension cord..for now...
My son did buy a solar powered generator for emergency use where he's at. Not terribly useful for winter though. Sun just barely rises in winter. But, in summer, he uses it quite a bit. --70.92.xxx.xxx
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by don [PA]) Posted on: Mar 19, 2023 2:27 AM
Busy--Get an inverter and run it off of your car's system --73.141.xxx.xxx
SanFran bans gas furnaces (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Mar 19, 2023 1:29 PM
Interesting Don. Didn't know about that. Thx, I'll look into it.
Oops- one of the yards is really deep, with a steep decline. Not sure I want to risk driving back there- might not get back out! ( always somethin! ) --70.92.xxx.xxx
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