Robert J
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Robert J (by dino [CA]) Feb 3, 2023 9:07 PM
       Robert J (by dino [CA]) Feb 3, 2023 9:15 PM
       Robert J (by Ken [NY]) Feb 3, 2023 9:22 PM
       Robert J (by dino [CA]) Feb 3, 2023 10:16 PM
       Robert J (by DJ [VA]) Feb 3, 2023 11:37 PM
       Robert J (by Robert J [CA]) Feb 4, 2023 2:52 AM
       Robert J (by dino [CA]) Feb 4, 2023 1:43 PM

Robert J (by dino [CA]) Posted on: Feb 3, 2023 9:07 PM

I am not familiar with the amounts that are considered reasonable when it comes to the fees charged by lender at maturity of loan.

So, if it makes a difference , this is NOT for a loan that still has a balance with years of payments remaining.

This is for a loan with one payment left that will mature in a few weeks.

So, other than principal and interest, the only fee listed on the payoff is $400 for "payoff processing fee". Sounds like it would be considered reasonable, but I wanted the opinion of someone that has more experience than me.

Of course, I assume there is very little work required by the lender to process the payoff so they are being overpaid but in terms of "usual and customary" as the saying goes, I figure they are within that range, and it isn't something worth a dispute.

What do you think??


Robert J (by dino [CA]) Posted on: Feb 3, 2023 9:15 PM


I forgot to mention this is for apartment building, not SFR, so I believe the any laws that govern such things are more protective of owner occupied house.

I assume they allow lenders more flexibility with borrower for apartment building but I don't really know.


Robert J (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Feb 3, 2023 9:22 PM

All the bank has to do is provide a satisfaction of mortgage which has to be filed at the county clerks office,you can call or look at the website to determine how much that is,anything more than hat and i would complain to the bank,i dont think it is reasonable to charge anything beyond the satisfaction of mortgge filing fee --74.77.xx.xx

Robert J (by dino [CA]) Posted on: Feb 3, 2023 10:16 PM


Yes I agree but the bank is going to say they need to get paid for preparing the payoff statement I received, for preparing the reconveyance, and filing it.

In fact, I was in no hurry to get the payoff quote and I knew they wanted to collect some "junk fees" so I waited. They sent 3 or 4 notices and even called on the phone trying to get me to request a payoff quote to charge their "junk fees".

Finally the asset manager probably worried that I would just make the last payment without a payoff quote contacted the payoff department himself requesting a quote be sent to me which they did.

$400 is more than it costs them, but since the loan docs allow reasonable fees, I assume they are confident they have a defensible position if I threaten to make it a legal issue. I'm also sure they figured it was not so high that someone who no longer needs to send them a monthly check would be feeling pretty satisfied and accept the overcharge.

In principle, I never liked the idea of courts relying on the concept of "reasonable and customary" in real estate disputes. But I have the feeling their fee would be compared to other lenders for commercial property and be considered fair. I think there is more specific protection in the law for a homeowner.


Robert J (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Feb 3, 2023 11:37 PM

Congratulations on paying it off!!

Robert J (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Feb 4, 2023 2:52 AM

In California the owner of the Loan (lender) has to file a Deed of Reconveyance, a legal document that indicates the transfer of a property's title from lender to borrower.

Those fee's are (sometimes) indicated in the original loan documents and a copy has been provided to the borrower with all of the escrow documents. And even sometimes those fee's were paid at the issue of the mortgage.

I've had several loans that the original issuer of my loan is "out of business" or my loan was sold. The new owner refused to file the Form of Re-conveyance, unless I pay their New Higher Fee's. Extortion.

One time I paid their fee's, got my loan recorded as Paid in Full, and then sent them a Demand Letter. Their legal department said, "Since you paid our fee's, you agreed to them and we are not paying those fee's back". In my original loan costs estimates, I paid a document fee, a recording fee, a notary fee and a preparation fee. But, I had a letter saying, if I didn't pay then they would not file Deed or Re-conveyance. So after 40 days, I then filed a case in small claims court, asking for my damages, calling it "Fraud". This meant I could elevate my claims to a higher court if necessary. This is not scare the Lender and we showed up in court. I would not take a judge pro tem or a commissioner and wanted a real Judge. So the case waited until 3PM when a real judge was available. So the bank had to pay extra legal fee's at $375 per hour. Or an extra $1,500, more than what I was asking for. Before my case was heard, the bank folded and offered me repayment of my fee's since I had my Original loan doc's showing I had already paid for filing a re-conveyance at the end of my loan. I did not accept and asked the court for damages. My sick stomach for weeks because a Billion Dollar Bank was tying and did extort a few buck from my wallet and the time I spent going to court.

Forgot to mention the best part. I asked the judge if he had a financial relationship with this bank. He did, so I asked for another judge, that took another hour to find.

To this day one of my mortgage lenders never filed with the recorder that my loan was paid. I got the new owner of this 2M apartment complex to file a document that he is the new owner and with the proceeds of his purchase my loan was paid off... Screw that lender too.

Robert J (by dino [CA]) Posted on: Feb 4, 2023 1:43 PM


I enjoyed hearing above info but I have a question:

1) Approximately what amount would be considered "reasonable" Payoff Preparation Fee according to the original loan docs or do you know what amount is limit of California law if their is limit in California law for payoff of apartment building loan???



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