HI,

Let me get out my crystal ball. Who is SHE? The owner? Manager? Neighbor?

John

Pay the RENT. Don't be a FREELOADER looking for excuses not to pay the rent over the past months. If the so-called toxic mold killed your dog, why are you still there? What PROOF do you have that toxic mold killed your dog? Before it became a problem, did you try to do some cleaning? Or were you lazy and expect everything done for you? Yes, the rental market in Miami is tough and everywhere else when prospective landlords find out that you were not paying rent.

John

what mold? from not cleaning? not wiping moisture off tub and shower when done.

Hate to be the bearing of bad news but 95% of mold is from poor cleaning habits.

Look up FL statute regarding warranty of habitability.

I don't find that it includes mold. However, if the mold is clearly a health hazard, it may be covered under other Building and Safety codes.

Landlord's warranty of habitability is supposed to protect tenants from unlivable conditions. Florida's version seems kind of weak to me.

You can always consult with an attorney to advise you about your rights.

By the way, I don't know of any court that has upheld a mold case in the last 20 years. There is simply too many more recent studies that have proven the amount of exposure required for significant health issues is all but impossible to achieve in an average apartment, lawyers won't take these cases anymore. At most it causes watery eyes and sniffles, similar to pollen allergies which could be caused by any number of sources not just mold. The days of prodigious claims of mold are long past.

You guys are brutal .... lol

Dear Sam:

I am guessing that you did not bother to look up FL law on FL warranty of habitability. I commented that that law, in FL, seems kind of weak to me. In particular, IT DOES NOT INCLUDE MOLD as a condition of uninhabitability. As I also commented, there may be other codes that may cover mold.

Why doesn't the warranty of habitability cover mold? Maybe it is because FL doesn't consider that mold is a condition of uninhabitability. If that is the case, you may experience a hard time to force your landlord to deal with the problem.

You may lack experience in dealing with attorneys, so I won't be too hard on you for your inexperienced approach. You need a landlord/tenant attorney that deals EXCLUSIVELY with representing tenants in habitability cases. You say, "We have several attorneys looking at this.". Well, if any of them are any good, then they should have told you right away whether FL law requires landlord to remediate mold or not. If they haven't already read the law, they should have figured it out by now. So, they are "looking at it". Are you paying them to "look at it"? If not, then you are getting your money's worth. If you are paying them, then why haven't you had an answer from them? Maybe you're not paying enough (for a GOOD attorney).

Funny how you expected perfect answers from owners in other states when landlord/tenant law varies from state to state, and apparently you didn't bother to google the law for your state.

You got some good advice here, from some well respected participants on this site (e.g. Moshe). Instead of focusing on the good advice, you chose to focus and snark back at the few who's response you didn't like.

I'm sure you know why you're not getting any advice from your 'several attorneys looking into this'. The coroners reports on the supposed dead humans would have nailed this down long ago.

Buh bye!

Here's the big question: would any sane person continue living in a place where they are convinced that the air quality killed their animal? "I paid last month's rent" is the 3rd worst reason I've ever heard. A person would seriously risk DEATH over one month's rent? Nope, when it's life or death, you leave... Period. Even if it means living in a car in the Walmart parking lot.

So, either "toxic black mold" isn't as toxic as claimed or there is MUCH more to this story than meets the eye.

It is not legal for a tenant to withhold rent for non-repairs. On the other hand, if there is truly a health issue, the LL should fix it.

I would advise you to keep paying your rent, move out today so you don't die, and then file suit against the LL.

I would be careful about using the term "black mold" however. I was a licensed home inspector for years and did many mold tests. "Black mold" is simply a color...not a type of mold. What species and genus was the mold? You said there were many positive tests, and if so you should have that information. Not all molds are harmful...especially black colored molds...most are innocuous. I think that's what upsets me and likely many others on here. Mold is not just the responsibility of the landlord, but also of the tenant. We have a mold addendum that every tenant signs where they agree to do their part to control mold...ours lists 22 duties they have. I have no way of knowing if you've lived up to your end of the bargain to minimize mold...we are only hearing one side of the story.

Sam I think after all the input the fact is your a pig. We don't get to say that to tenants too often but since your not our tenant-- why not get some cleaner-- Clorox and a scrub brush and clean. The kindness you've been shown consecrating your piggy was generous.

Quick question: why is it when the piggy tenant moves out and new tenant moves in there's no longer MOLD issue?

Sam, I will attempt to answer your question because EXACTLY the same thing happened to me. There was black mold in one of my units. I knew about it and did nothing for several months. Tenant became very sick and was admitted to the hospital. Upon release from the hospital, she immediately packed up and moved, then sued me for medical expenses and rent relief because the mold caused her illness and forced her to move before the end of her lease.

In court, the tenant presented a pile of medical paperwork, pictures of mold, and told a long, tragic story to the judge. Her case fell apart when the judge asked for PROOF that the mold had caused her illness. All of her paperwork said she had the flu. Judge said she either needed the doctor to testify in person or submit medical documentation stating that mold had caused her illness. Tenant could do neither and lost her case. I won on my counterclaim.

But what if the landlord IS responsible?

He can be responsible, even for things that are not his fault.

Good Luck in court.

Have you had any response yet from your lawyer(s) who have been "looking at it". Do they (any of "them") think that you have a case? Based on what statute? And, do you have to pay them, or will they take it on contingency? How long have they been practicing in this field?

Landlords aren't ONE SIZE SOLVES ALL YOUR PROBLEMS. Neither are LANDLORD forums.

First off, saying 'black mold' is species-ist. Black molds get all the blame for illness, yet there are millions of species of mold. Some black, some green, some blue, gray, you get the idea. Some other colors of mold are very harmful, some mold that is black is beneficial. And ANYmold, in the WRONG place can be a problem. Second, here in Wisconsin, mold is more present OUTSIDE than inside, even in heavily infested buildings. That's because mold is an ESSENTIAL part of our Earth's ecosystem. Without molds of all colors, life would be radically different. Not saying life would not be possible, I'm not THAT well educated on molds to know that for sure, but just saying different. Florida, being a very wet, humid, hot place, is likely loaded with molds. Millions and millions of kinds of mold. And viruses, bacteria, protazoa, nematodes. Ya know, the small things that run the world. Most buildings in Wisconsin, and probably Florida, would test positive for many molds if tested.

Second, how an issue of habitability is addressed varies from municipality to municipality, and state to state. There are protocols that MUST be followed in order to have habitability issues used as a defense against paying rent. In MY area, a tenant MUST get the appropriate authority involved, must pay full rent into escrow mandated by authority, by rent's due date. The authority takes it from there. Inspections will follow, and remedies recommended (Not sure that recommended is proper term; Not a lawyer, just a big mouth on the interwebs, ) Anyway, the authorities will ensure landlord/and or/ building owner has remedied situation to authorities' satisfaction before rent funds are released to landlord.

Third, no building is perfect, and we are short of housing in this country. Authorities are more interested in keeping people housed than making them homeless. Landlords are given time to make remedies, and sometimes buildings will be condemned. There was one such case recently when a building was declared unfit for habitation, tenants were evacuated. Then allowed back inside over a very short interval of time to retrieve some personal belongings, but no one was allowed to move large items such as furniture out. I haven't followed that story beyond the first few days, so do not know if tenants were ever able to retrieve their belongings. I do know the Red Cross was involved in helping relocate tenants as the building was first declared unsafe for structural concerns. The building was largely condos occupied by the owners of the condo, but some were tenants of the condo owner.

Fourth, whether you "have a case or not" isn't relative at this point, as far as you living there. If its unsafe for YOU get, the h e dble hockey sticks out. If the building was on fire, would you say, but I have no where else to go, and stay? That you are able to stay tells me it might just be seasonal allergies. Or dust mite allergie, or... And those can be bad, I know, but, hey, I cannot even visit long in Florida because I am very allergic to one of the common plants down there. Gives me bad migraines and sinus infections. Blech. By staying in an 'infected ' building, you are providing evidence that the building IS safe for occupation. That others have died, well, Florida is known for having lots of senior citizens. Might other factors like heart disease, or cancer be a factor in those deaths? Rhetorical question, kindly don't answer this.

Fifth building owner and landlord are not necessarily synonymous. Might be building owner is responsible for one thing, landlord another. And that is where following YOUR municipality's procedure for withholding rent for reasons of habitability is ESSENTIAL. You might have layers of complication, so you need to work with your municipality.

So, Sam, you need to find out what your municipality's process is for withholding rent. If you don't follow the governing bodies procedure, even IF the building is eventually declared no longer habitable, you could end up with an eviction on your record, which , as others kindly pointed out, may stay with you for long, long time.

I'll tell ya a little story about a tenant I had. Tenant didn't like that I did some things differently than the last few landlords they had. Kept saying, " I'm going to talk to my lawyer friend. " And tenant did. Every time tenant talked with the 'lawyer-friend', my rental property phone and mailbox would just blow up with offers from investors trying to buy 'distressed properties'. and the postcards, phone calls, letters would usually mention something like, "Are you tired of dealing with tenants?' Only asking about that SPECIFIC property, though I have a handful of other little houses. During the course of trying to come to a workable solution with this tenant, tenant admitted that the LAST TWO places had been sold to investors who were going to flip the house, that is, move tenant out, rehab the house, and sell it at higher price. Now, Sam, where do you think those investors heard about that property? Curiously enough, when I was able to calm the tenant down, get tenant to listen, help tenant to understand, AND, when tenant's family told tenant what I was offering was actually better than what tenant had with previous landlords, THEN all of those annoying postcards, phone calls, letters from investors wanting to buy my one specific house did stop. Well, I still get the odd one or two a week, but no more than about any of my other little houses. My tenant wasn't paying her 'lawyer-friend' for advice, so either 'lawyer-friend', or maybe someone in the office was selling tenant and landlord contact information to investors looking to buy cheap properties? I dunno. But, it does happen. Also has happened that 'lawyers' will go looking for cases, even to the point of trying to get residents upset about where they live, or what medicine they take, or what phone service they use. Why? Because the lawyer makes money from cases, or sometimes consultations.

So, Sam, we aren't lawyers, we aren't YOUR PAID lawyers, we aren't mold specialists, but we ARE a very caring bunch of landlords who DO make serious efforts to keep our places in very good shape, and to offer very good value in housing for our tenants. But, We have been 'around the block' a few times, some more than others (I'm just a very small time landlord with just a few houses. But, well-kept houses.) No two of us landlords operate our business exactly the same, just as no two municipalities have exactly the same laws/ regulations/ rules for these things. That's a GOOD thing, Sam. Landlords from at least two countries post on this forum, many different states and provinces, and certainly that encompasses many different climates, cultures. Viva la difference!

"Yes, my attorney will be filing suit soon. Maybe I also will win $51 million and I can be a landlord too and poison my tenants."

Yes, but why didn't he file yesterday?

Did he ever reply after "looking into it"?

What was his reply? Yes, you have a case or NO, you don't have a case. Based on what?

Did you settle on a GOOD attorney? Not one that talks to you nice, or blusters, but one who KNOWS the law and how to plead a case according to the law?

Is he going to sue for $51 million? Thats a pretty large amount? Do you actually think that you have $51 million in damages? If not, then how do you think you will look in front of a judge or a jury? Ridiculous or not?

Is this attorney willing to take the case on contingency? If he is, thats a bad sign. Only an attorney that doesn't have many other clients would risk his own time and money to do this long-shot. Better to get a GOOD attorney and pay him.

Sorry Sam, you aren't 'part of a group'. We just post at will. No sign ins, no nuthin' . Nuthin to remove you from.

Guess you shoulda read the fine print. " By entering your email address here, you agree to receive notification from MrLandlord.com every time anyone replies to "this" thread.

Sam says, "Once again, remove me from this group. You sociopaths are fun but I am quite busy. And your hero Moshe is not all that bright either."

I wish you the best of luck finding a home that suits your needs. Clearly where you are at isn't making you happy. In Pa there isn't an air quality standard so you would have a hard time....perhaps Fla is different.

You are asking a legal questions to us and are getting mad with the answers you are getting. You are saying the AC system feeds multiple units and want to know if the LL is responsible for a HOA issue. Perhaps you should seek legal advise from an attorney on who to sue.

Please understand though, when I screen an applicant, I check the civil filings. You might be setting yourself up for even a harder time finding a place after you try and continue to make a LEGAL statement.

I'd move out. I'd pay back rent so you don't have an eviction on your record. (I know I don't rent to anyone with a recent eviction)

If you have real damages, I'd document 'em. (Good luck on that one.) Then I'd ask to be reimbursed for my damages.

If that didn't work, sure sue.

Not likely most landlords would be eager to rent to someone who sued their last one.

In fact, though most here might not admit it, I'd be willing to bet that most disqualify anyone who cried "mold" at their last rental...

just because mold is black doesn't men it's Black Mold. if you think the place killed your dog then YOU'RE NEXT...MOVE. NOW. find a new shack with a landlord like those here that care to be involved and who seek out good tenants.

It does amuse me when a tenant comes to a Landlord forum and asks a question. I have to hand it to this group, most of the time when it happens, yall do good and help them out. IF the tenant is respectful that is. When one comes to the group with a chip on their shoulder, they typically don't like the response they get.

In this case, the responses Sam is getting are good ones. Sam just doesn't like the way they are worded. They're "mean". Well, yea, you asked for it though. The "see ya in court" line has been said to me more times than I can count. How many times have I actually been to court though? Zero as a defendant. I have done multiple evictions. One recent was a case where the tenant was trying to claim mold damage. Guess how that went? Judge didn't even let her talk. Sure, they were upset about it, but they had no case. After a couple back and forths, the judge just started cutting her off and wouldn't let her say a single word past when she said "mold".

I'm sorry you don't like the responses you are getting Sam. Try to look past the snark and realize the message is a sound one. You will only make it harder on yourself by staying there. If your health truly is in jeopardy, I would advise leaving too. If you're trying to get free rent, that won't happen. A small nugget for you too, if someone comes to me wanting to look at a place of mine and their reason for moving is "Landlord never fixes anything" (or some variation thereof), they are automatically denied. I can't imagine someone coming to me wanting to rent that just filed a $51M lawsuit on their last landlord. Uhhh, no thanks. Good luck in your housing search. Additionally, as others have said, if it gets to the point of eviction, definitely good luck on your housing search.

One last note, you put yourself in this group, not us. We cannot do anything to "remove you from the group". You will continue to get the email notification that someone responded to your question until people quit responding. That's how this site works. It's old school. Like the old chat forums or message boards used to work in the early days of the Internet.

Good luck in your housing search....

In most cases, mold happens as a result of tenant actions like not running the bathroom fan during a shower, or leaving the windows open during humid times, not running your AC enough to remove excess humidity, etc. I remember having a conversation with a State Farm adjuster about mold once. He said it's so overrated and that in their entire history he's never seen one single claim for mold in Texas.

"Anyways I will let you amoral misrcreants to get back to poisoning people and thinking you will get away with it. Y'all are special"

See, I tried to tell you all that I was special!

"You sociopaths are fun........."

Got me again.

I looked up the viability of a mold lawsuit in Florida.

Although it appears people inquire about them all the time (Florida is a big humid state) it doesn't sound as if they are very successful...a big reason is that no causal link has been established between illness and mold in general. Just some people have allergies (to mold and all kinds of things.) The most successful lawsuit I found, the result was the tenant was allowed to break their lease early without damages.

My realtors always hated the mold or mildew statement. They preferred discoloration.

Sam-

If you need a new place to stay, my application has on it the question: "Reason for leaving current address"