Hochul Housing Plan
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Hochul Housing Plan (by Mapleaf18 [NY]) Dec 4, 2022 7:42 PM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Moshe [CA]) Dec 4, 2022 8:31 PM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Richard [MI]) Dec 4, 2022 10:27 PM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Moshe [CA]) Dec 4, 2022 11:28 PM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by mapleaf18 [NY]) Dec 5, 2022 7:46 AM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Dec 5, 2022 8:49 AM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Dec 5, 2022 10:18 AM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Laura [MD]) Dec 5, 2022 1:19 PM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Dec 6, 2022 12:25 AM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Allym [NJ]) Dec 6, 2022 4:53 PM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Moshe [CA]) Dec 6, 2022 11:43 PM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Busy [WI]) Dec 7, 2022 1:50 PM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Moshe [CA]) Dec 7, 2022 9:12 PM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Dec 8, 2022 10:14 AM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Busy [WI]) Dec 8, 2022 11:03 AM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by John... [MI]) Dec 8, 2022 12:17 PM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Phil [OR]) Dec 8, 2022 12:30 PM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Busy [WI]) Dec 8, 2022 5:24 PM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by John... [MI]) Dec 8, 2022 7:23 PM
       Hochul Housing Plan (by Busy [WI]) Dec 9, 2022 11:21 AM

Hochul Housing Plan (by Mapleaf18 [NY]) Posted on: Dec 4, 2022 7:42 PM

Subtitled "Bye Bye Private Property Rights" Hochul's started her housing plan for January 2023 will be "bold and audacious."

Here are a couple of items resurfacing again:

SFH zoning will be "adjusted" to facilitate building more Cabrini Greenesque highrises.

"Good Cause" Eviction and other "tenant protections"

An article in the Gotham Gazette has tenant activists saying NY should be more like NJ and CA with State Planners. Oh goody! Another layer of unelected bureaucrats. --64.246.xxx.xx

Hochul Housing Plan (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Dec 4, 2022 8:31 PM

I tried previously to warn about a white house conference promoting these issues as a national policy.

The subject needs more that a website comment like "Oh goody! Another layer of unelected bureaucrats.", and not even a check.

There is a BASIC problem here that is impossible to disregard: Rents have become too high for a large segment of the population. Various solution are suggested, usually involving curtailment of convenient rights that landlords have long cherished. And Mom-and-Pop landlords have, for the most part, done nothing about the problem. much less suggesting possible more-palatable solutions. In short, they have done nothing but complain. They don't organize, they don't raise money, they just complain that "they can't afford, they don't want to pay for "lobbying", they want "big Real Estate companies " to save them from their own inaction.

The potential for a NATIONAL POLICY is clearly there, and being organized as-we-speak. The standard political way of dealing with such problems is for those who are affected to offer their own solutions.


Hochul Housing Plan (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Dec 4, 2022 10:27 PM

This kind of lunacy will and is spreading. If it is not stopped the business of being a landlord will likely become a thing of the past for the small landlords.

If that should happen, I for one, will simply find something else to do. Flip houses, build houses, become a home repairman, whatever. Invest in houses in other countries that don't do this stuff. Invest in other companies.

I got into being a landlord because I owned a construction company and did a lot of work for other landlords. I was young and saw the opportunity and took it.

If being a landlord goes away, I will find something else.

Commercial. Tree farms. A hundred other things. I will be fine. --75.7.xx.xx

Hochul Housing Plan (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Dec 4, 2022 11:28 PM

Oh, come now, Richard.

Times change, but do you really think that a) the name "lunacy" is really appropriate and b) that being a landlord will go away?

We have had rent control, eviction moratoriums, and tenant protections in CA for 3 years now, and no one is barking at the moon and no one is quitting being a landlord. We have adapted.

The landlord community needs to be better educated to learn how to deal in the modern political world. Problems come and go, they get solved for better or for worse, and the American political system (before and after DJT, but not during) continues to function to solve the country's problems as they can, with sacrifices from everyone and an eye toward the future. And those that don't want to be part of the solution always lose out.


Hochul Housing Plan (by mapleaf18 [NY]) Posted on: Dec 5, 2022 7:46 AM

Moshe, Broad brush statement "no one is barking at the moon and no one is quitting being a landlord." In fact they are. At the very least they are voting with their feet. Population in blue states (not including the massive illegal influx) has been dropping like a stone.

Yes we need to find a way around this as usual, but why should the honus be upon the property owner? Why should there be a constant erosion of private property rights by these unelected "leaders." --64.246.xxx.xx

Hochul Housing Plan (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Dec 5, 2022 8:49 AM

When you buy a rental, you are buying a basket of goods.

That foundation was laid 20 years earlier.

That furnace is already paid for

That power panel is already installed.

The cost of these goods do not typically go down. So the value of a piece of real estate typically goes up. Take a place like California - not only are less people moving into the state, but the birth rate is less than the death rate. So both gross and net migration are negative.

People tend to move away from BS ideas and policies.

It is nice to think that mom and pops operations can set the rental rate or impact housing policy. Last time I checked our industry was fractured into small operators.

So unless you have a master idea to coordinate and organize things, then the trend will continue. Truly is this that big of deal? It only means the quality of renal housing will go down, that the number of people using each unit will go up and the political stumping will continue.


Hochul Housing Plan (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Dec 5, 2022 10:18 AM

If they ignore reality then there consequences. In the province of Ontario Housing is major industry that employs local people and buys locally. There is not enough money in the provincial treasury to completely buy out all the private sector rentals. The reactionary extreme left wing tenancy advocates do not even represent 0.01 per cent of the population. While some say housing should be a right where there is a right under the constitution to earn a living. They would not do that to a grocery store where food is not a right for free food. In Calgary Alberta they building and converting other structures to rental housing as there is demand along with the provincial government is not hostile to private sector rental housing. If want to follow the extreme leftists then there is no economy. I remember the day the one time Socialist Democratic Government in Ontario said there fix the landlorfs where that day 20,000 jobs were lost where many of the workers were tenants who were promised no rent increases went home. I doubt they voted for the Socialist Democrats again. If one wants to go like Sweden, Norway and Finland where taxes are really high then people has less mony to spend in the economy. Some think this country is really socialist where there many provinces that have progressive Conservative government not the other way around. Other then having universal medical care not much more. Governments do not do good job of running rental housing. Rent control never works. --68.69.xxx.xxx

Hochul Housing Plan (by Laura [MD]) Posted on: Dec 5, 2022 1:19 PM

I warned my local landlord group, back when I was first on the local landlord tenant Commission, years and years ago that they were working on changes. We needed to organize and have a voice.

Instead the current County executive was elected by 75 votes this last go round and 140? the previous election. IF WE Hd organized we could have easily prevented his election/relection. We are a county of close to a million folks. He is pushing for rent control like in his town. He claims it has been a huge success there, not true, but he is controlling the narrative with little opposition. We do need an organized voice and it needs to be sane. Really addressing the problem and collaborating on solutions that work best for everyone. Not my way or the highway attitude.

Very importantly misinformation needs to be challenged. --149.19.xxx.xx

Hochul Housing Plan (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Dec 6, 2022 12:25 AM

Rent control was designed to control where it was designed to expropriate private rental stock as they that said by reactionary tenancy advocates. First off if there rent control then include wage and price controls Why not there needs to consensus here. Tenants who live in rent controlled jurisdictions always pay higher rent then the free market rent proven a million times over. There is massive new rental construction in Calgary Alberta where even converted other structures to rental housing. Alberta has no rent control where other provinces have rent control. it is proven when there are no vacancies one does not have to earn one business which means take or leave it where rental units in a rent controlled jurisdictions have a lower standard. Why is the community housing authority not under rent control. One tenant was getting a 45 per cent rent increase where he was furious but pay up or leave. In public school over and over again you are taugh the rules of supply and demsnd where supply goes down then prices go up. Why legislate slums? --68.69.xxx.xxx

Hochul Housing Plan (by Allym [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 6, 2022 4:53 PM

This will fall under it's own weight. No workers to enforce anything. Applicants won't like their "assigned" building. They will want the "better" buildings. It will turn into a nightmare for Hochul and her crew if we don't get rid of them first. Stuff is hitting the fan. --71.188.xx.xxx

Hochul Housing Plan (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Dec 6, 2022 11:43 PM

So the threats begin:

Business of being a landlord will likely become a thing of the past for the small landlords.

Yes we need to find a way around this as usual, why should this and why should that happen to landlords? But no plan for action.

Discussion of costs, the the threat: jump to people are leaving California. But if they are leaving CA , then why has housing become so dear? And leave the master plan for others.

Very importantly misinformation needs to be challenged; but how does that solve the problem that rents are too high?

This will fall under its own weight. Well, lets wait and see.


Hochul Housing Plan (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2022 1:50 PM

So, lead the charge, Moshe.

And, here are some points to add to your charge:

We already have a national rent control of sorts, and it is UPWARD pricing of rentals. IRS apparently threatens landlords whom might not be charging 'enough' in rents with declaring the landlord is not profit motivated and therefore is running a charity, and can lose all of their deductions. Every year, when I run my taxes through Turbo tax, I get the message that my rents might not be at market rates, and TT does a comparison for me. I'm not worried, as I audit rental sites, print out copies of the few rentals I can find in my price range. This year, it was harder, I admit, to find much in my price range. BUT, I have found quite a few For Sale properties that mention in their listings, currently tenant occupied at $XXX per month. And that figure greatly satisfies the requirement that I have my properties at ' market rates'. That I also show a profit some years, also helps.

So, any discussion of rent-control should address that our taxing authority is the largest single pusher to increase rents. And it all goes to minimum mark-up laws, aimed at 'helping' mom and pops compete with larger chains, especially in the gas station business.

So, Moshe, I urge you to lead us in these discussions. Me? I'm focusing on sustainable landscaping at our rental properties. My rents are very reasonable, yet still cash flow nicely. --70.92.xxx.xxx

Hochul Housing Plan (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Dec 7, 2022 9:12 PM

So Turbo Tax calculates rental comparisons. I failed to see what that had to do with the IRS.

If you WANT national rent control, then sit still and don't organize. It seems that you are getting what you want.

But if you DON'T want rent control, tenant protections and eviction moratoriums, you are going to get it, sooner or later, and your bucolic state boundary won't protect you.

Those who organize and support fair legislation will have SOME opportunity to help to solve problems facing the renter community and their own problems as well, and those who merely complain about socialism and liberalism won't get anything to say about THEIR problems at all..


Hochul Housing Plan (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2022 10:14 AM

What the hate groups are not seeing reality is where housing owned or rented is expensive to build and maintain. Any building after a peroid is going require a new roof, HVAC system, water heater, structural repairs and other things that wear out. Some things become obsolete where parts are no longe available. In the Uk landords are faced to pay taxes even when operating at a loss where there is massive sell off rentals where the Uk is heeding for a rental housing crisis. After Brexit taxes have really gone up along with the economy has really gone down. The reality is they have to join the EU. In Calgary Albera there are no rent controls where builders are building along converting existing structures to rental like a office building. Provinces that have rent control builders are building houses, condominiums, commercial very few rentals. What happens with apartment buildings when governments becomes nasty is the tenants get a letter in mail if they want to stay they are buying where that building is no longer a rental building. During the pandemic the hate groups really showed there hate for rental housing providers where some became violent where arrested during demonstrations where they caused vandalism. Hate is destructive where Putin hates the Us. EU and Nato where the war is destroying Russia with a large loss of life where running out resources to continue this madness. --68.69.xxx.xxx

Hochul Housing Plan (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2022 11:03 AM

Moshe, TT is income tax preparation software, everything the program does is ONLY to follow rules, guidelines, regulations of the IRS. Its not Turbo Tax saying landlords have to charge ' market rates' its the IRS that mandates this. Thus, the IRS imposes a national rental price floor. It is the IRS that has made it known they have the authority to decline a landlord's deductions IF the landlord fails to charge sufficient rents.

It is probably the HUD rate that is used. Unfortunately, the HUD rate lumps large, disparate areas together, just due to physical proximity. My HUD area encompasses two counties, with vastly different economic status. Thus, I find supporting evidence for my rates, which are on the lower end of market. Works for me, as I am rather busy, don't want to deal with frequent turnovers or heaps of tenant drama. AND, I firmly believe it is good for families and neighborhoods to have a more stable population. Not that I am trying to do social engineering, I just prefer to operate in an increasingly safer neighborhood, rather than an increasingly turbulent one. ( one little landlord doesn't change much quickly, I'll tell ya!)

Problem with 'organizing' is, it just adds another control group, telling ya what to do. And, yeah, a landlord can still have a say, even if it means selling, doing other things. Yes, somebody else would buy those properties, but would no longer be the former landlord's problem. A relative of mine has put all of his 'rentals' into rent-to-own status ( I might be using the wrong term, kindly correct me if I am.) Anyway, the formerlandlordnowinvestor no longer deals with repairs, not at all concerned if occupants smoke, have pittbulls, or extra occupants. Instead, just verifies that the monthly payment has been deposited, and life goes on. If payments are missed, foreclosure ensues, the property is refreshed, and back on the market. I believe the relative has an option for homebuyers to get an outside mortgage, then the investor is simply done with that property. Though that doesn't happen too often.

Organizing landlords/ housing providers may be just another way of saying, ' Do it MY way.'

~I prefer the road less travelled. It has made all the difference. ~


Hochul Housing Plan (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2022 12:17 PM

Does anyone have an example of where the IRS took action against a landlord for not having his rates high enough where it wasn't pretty clearly trying to cheat the system by not properly listing income?

Is there even one example where the IRS took action where the landlord was actually charging normal/market rates?

I guess I've never even HEARD of this idea that Busy is complaining about before. I even tried to search for it and couldn't find a single instance of it actually happening.

I think TurboTax just added a nice tool for landlords. I don't think it has anything to do with the IRS coming after anyone for not charging enough. (Again, except in the cases where landlords are lying about incoming by listing fake rates below what they are actually charging.)


Hochul Housing Plan (by Phil [OR]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2022 12:30 PM

There has been a net loss of 6,400 sfh from the rental pool in the Portland Oregon metro in the last five years. Most of the loss is attributed to mom and pop landlords getting out of the business due to the laws protecting tenant. Can not find the statistics for the state as a whole. I do know that I have no problem renting mine out as the demand is very high. If I only had one or two, I would get out also. I'm just big enough to make it worth the effort to stay abreast of the new laws. --76.138.xxx.xxx

Hochul Housing Plan (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2022 5:24 PM

John, you certainly aren't trying to imply I am cheating on my taxes? Sheesh, so that's how its justified. Oh, they must have been cheating... uh-huh...

I've seen it discussed in two major tax books. But, what do they know? ( snort)

So, back to my question to Moshe. Why aren't you leading the charge, when you seem to be challenging others to do so? Maybe its your calling....

Possibly there are persons doing just that, but NOT using this forum, or other real estate/ property rental forums because those taking up the cause of 'landlord rights' ( or whatever you would call defending the real estate owner's side,) would possibly respect the rights of the gracious forum hosts who have created web sites where we can occasionally vent ( which I view most of this discussion as such,) as well as get good, solid advice from peers. Thus, to avoid bringing potentially divisive attention to a wholesome place, ruining it for all of us, those trying to organize might be avoiding taking their business here. (OTOH, I thought I've read of a few over the years who have turned from landlording to politics. Couple of mayors, if I recall. Think that was on another forum though.) --70.92.xxx.xxx

Hochul Housing Plan (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Dec 8, 2022 7:23 PM

I wasn't suggesting that of you at all.

You just implied that it was happening. I can't find any example of it actually happening. Was just curious if you had a real-life example of it. Anywhere.


Hochul Housing Plan (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Dec 9, 2022 11:21 AM

Phil (OR) , I hear ya! My son and daughterinlaw are out your way, and after I got comfortable with being a LL, we considered getting properties out by them. They both have good building skills, good people management skills ( they can both be tough, loving drill-sergeant types,) and my husband and I could provide the capital investment, and we could set up trips to work on properties and see our family. Add to that they have come out and helped me on my rehabs in Wisconsin, and found we work well together. So, with all of that good going for us, just those ' laws protecting tenants' have brought us to full-stop on this idea.

Other laws in your area have also put 'full-stop' on other plans they had for adding economically to their society. For instance, they have acreage, and do quite a bit of gardening. Looked into expanding into growing marketable plants to sell at farmer's market. But the onerous fee, in the thousands of dollars, just to be able to sell fresh produce at the local farmer's market put the kabosh on that.

So, by trying to 'protect' the consumer, OR and WA have reduced the offerings available to the consumer. Now, if those fees came with rigid inspections, training classes, to verify/ ensures that market gardeners weren't importing invasive species, or using outlawed chemicals, or other health and safety measures, maybe it wouldn't be so annoying. But, apparently not so. Just a fee, just because.

My city offers training classes for landlords AT NO COST to the landlords, on all manner of topics from bedbugs to tenant screening to help educate the landlords. Much better way, in my opinion, to get good tenant-landlord relationships, than just adding laws which set up increasingly adversarial relationships. --70.92.xxx.xxx

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