Mini Split
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Mini Split (by Steve [OH]) Dec 2, 2022 12:15 AM
       Mini Split (by Vee [OH]) Dec 2, 2022 3:24 AM
       Mini Split (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Dec 2, 2022 6:47 AM
       Mini Split (by plenty [MO]) Dec 2, 2022 9:14 AM
       Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Dec 2, 2022 9:27 AM
       Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Dec 2, 2022 9:29 AM
       Mini Split (by BillW [NJ]) Dec 2, 2022 10:18 AM
       Mini Split (by BillW [NJ]) Dec 2, 2022 10:18 AM
       Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Dec 2, 2022 10:45 AM
       Mini Split (by Allym [NJ]) Dec 2, 2022 11:04 AM
       Mini Split (by BillW [NJ]) Dec 2, 2022 11:31 AM
       Mini Split (by Homer [TX]) Dec 2, 2022 1:46 PM
       Mini Split (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Dec 2, 2022 2:09 PM
       Mini Split (by Sisco [MO]) Dec 2, 2022 2:50 PM
       Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Dec 2, 2022 5:25 PM
       Mini Split (by BillW [NJ]) Dec 2, 2022 6:33 PM
       Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Dec 2, 2022 8:36 PM
       Mini Split (by ned [AL]) Dec 2, 2022 10:10 PM
       Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Dec 2, 2022 10:39 PM
       Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Dec 2, 2022 10:47 PM
       Mini Split (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Dec 3, 2022 11:44 AM
       Mini Split (by ned [AL]) Dec 3, 2022 11:57 PM
       Mini Split (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Dec 4, 2022 7:52 AM
       Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Dec 4, 2022 3:59 PM
       Mini Split (by BillW [NJ]) Dec 5, 2022 9:29 AM


Mini Split (by Steve [OH]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 12:15 AM
Message:

I would like to add a mini split to heat 1200 sq ft. The baseboard heat is running $16 a day which will be $480 for 30 days. The HVAC guy that I would like to use is really backed up. Are they hard to install

and how many BTUs do you think? Also, any favorite brands? --65.185.xx.xx




Mini Split (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 3:24 AM
Message:

You need to do a manual J calculation to determine the BTU based on insulation and glass load along with other factors, when the manual D calculation is within 10 percent for the turnover rate and you use the existing gas furnace as the BTU. You often find someone used double the BTU value and it works but short cycles leaving cold spots, I have used Samsung and Mitsubishi because they have units that work when it is -10 outside, the cheap units work down to +25 so you will be using the baseboards again. --76.190.xxx.xxx




Mini Split (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 6:47 AM
Message:

There are two parts to installing a HVAC system which are the heat loss and heat gain. More then likely the structure is poorly insulated where it is like a bucket with hole where have to make that hole smaller so less water is required. Spary foam is the best insulation where no air infiltration. Upgrading windows to low E with argon gas will decrease heat loss and heat gain. Best option is to with a high efficiency mini split where it is better to install a larger unit as a high efficiency mini split works on the modulaton principal where the compressor works at a varible rate where under low demand the compressor will not run at full capacity. Most will require 240 VAC with 15 to 20 amps. There are parts to insulation which are rough in then connecting all fitting along with hard wiring outside compressor along with a stand or concrete pad. If want to know more about insulation of high efficiency mini split then view many videos on You Tube. High efficiency units use the least amount of current or power where look at a SEER 22 above. Also look at insulation. --68.69.xxx.xxx




Mini Split (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 9:14 AM
Message:

Talk to someone who installs minisplits daily. We have two, one in each of our garages, we installed one and one we paid to have installed. Maybe there is a reason your building would be difficult for install, but I didn't think so, we also had plenty of electrical power in these buildings so we didn't have to upgrade the electric panel. Talk to a few other installers and soon you'll know if it's feasible. We love our, easy to use, heat and cool, inexpensive to operate. --172.56.xx.xx




Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 9:27 AM
Message:

We only have one installed (with two heads) and that tenant loves it. Her bills are non-existent no matter the season. But for us, it was almost as much to have installed as central HVAC.

So we use through-wall heat pumps instead on all our other cottages because they are much cheaper than mini-splits for US, and economical for the tenants as well compared to baseboards. We leave the baseboard as back-up, but no one uses it. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 9:29 AM
Message:

Oh and just finished an ADU with no source of HVAC except for two of these through-wall units, and it passed Certificate of Occupancy compliance for that with no problem. Our electrician had already told us that as long as a unit just plugs in (as these do, 220 volt) it requires no inspection and no permit. A mini-split requires both. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Mini Split (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 10:18 AM
Message:

That's a good tip WMH. I think before you've mentioned using the amana through wall units. I assume you mean electric baseboard heater, which seems like an inexpensive backup heat and supplement, when temps drop below what the heat pump can do.

Makes sense the through wall cost less than the mini split. With a mini split, you need to support the indoor and outdoor units, make a hole through the wall and connect the indoor and outdoor units, then charge the units. With the through wall, the connections and line charging between "indoor" and "outdoor" units are already done at the factory and the hole thorough the wall provides the support for everything. I guess the mini split has the advantage of a small 3" diameter hole vs the 20 x 40" or so cut-out for the through wall. --74.102.xx.xx




Mini Split (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 10:18 AM
Message:

That's a good tip WMH. I think before you've mentioned using the amana through wall units. I assume you mean electric baseboard heater, which seems like an inexpensive backup heat and supplement, when temps drop below what the heat pump can do.

Makes sense the through wall cost less than the mini split. With a mini split, you need to support the indoor and outdoor units, make a hole through the wall and connect the indoor and outdoor units, then charge the units. With the through wall, the connections and line charging between "indoor" and "outdoor" units are already done at the factory and the hole thorough the wall provides the support for everything. I guess the mini split has the advantage of a small 3" diameter hole vs the 20 x 40" or so cut-out for the through wall. --74.102.xx.xx




Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 10:45 AM
Message:

The hole size is true: the Amana is a bigger hole. But you can rip & replace with the same size unit very easily - and they last about 6-10 years so at WORST they cost less than $200 a year. Fully deductible in first year too. No depreciation to worry about.

We don't bother to repair very often, we just replace. We keep one or two on-hand for fast service. If it IS still under warranty or something, we can just take the removed unit to the shop and let them work on it. Then IT becomes the back-up unit.

Mostly though we just toss them if they die. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Mini Split (by Allym [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 11:04 AM
Message:

I have MItsubishi for AC and I think itwould produce heat also but I have lovely radiators and a Burnham in the basement.It's 18 K for AC and cost six grand so it better have heat also. Yes small hole but I have to cover it in plastic because cold air comes in like a reverse blowtorch. I have a Fujitsu and one of the rentals for AC. It has been very reliable. --71.188.xx.xxx




Mini Split (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 11:31 AM
Message:

Thanks for sharing your hands-on experience. Why wouldn't you install the sleeve into a window vs. cutting a new hole in the wall? I use lots of window AC units and "permanently" install them with good air sealing and a bit of insulation on the sides. Nice thing about window units, is for only $1,500, you 10 independent zones of cooling.

And you got me thinking, a few years ago, I ordered an amana through wall heat pump, I suspect after reading one of your posts, but the delivery was delayed, so I ended up installing a mr cool mini split, that I ordered from costo. I was able to cancel the heat pump order, but for some reason, I still have the unboxed sleeve sitting in my garage. Let me know if you want the sleeve and Iíll ship it to you. The part number is WS900E. Iíll be happy to get it out of my garage

And do you know the difference between a PTAC heat pump and through wall heat pump? I see amana sells both and they look similar, and both use sleeves, but one is called a PTAC and the other a "through-the-wall".

--74.102.xx.xx




Mini Split (by Homer [TX]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 1:46 PM
Message:

I personally installed a 9,000 btu mini split last summer in my converted garage. Wasnít a difficult job, as I had watched several videos first. Pulled a good vacuum and it is a quiet highly effective unit. I wish I could put them in all the rentals. However, the stigma of several units around the houses may be a turn off for tenants. My average rents are about $1650 a month. --47.32.xxx.xxx




Mini Split (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 2:09 PM
Message:

A PTAC is never as efficient as a high efficiency split pump. On Amazon can buy complete high efficiency split pump. If a larger split pump is used then the heat pump will reduce compressor speed to compansate for less demand. it is better to go with one size up then using a smaller unit. The other important feature is to buy a high efficiency heat pump that operates when it cold out without using heat strips. --68.69.xxx.xxx




Mini Split (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 2:50 PM
Message:

I do not own a mini split system. My preferred HVAC service strongly discouraged me from buying mini split for rental property. He is a proponent of the system, not for renters.

It sounds as if this switch is an effort to save money, if this is the case, consider all of the hours , days and weeks that the new unit wonít be in operation. Next consider that during the coldest weather in the mid west, the heat pump is overridden by the back up electric heat strip. Weigh these considerations against the cash outlay and the payback is far into the future. --149.76.xxx.x




Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 5:25 PM
Message:

A PTAC is a large rectangle, much heavier so it's definitely a two-man job, and requires more framing.

The "through-wall" is more of a square, fits under an average window if that's what works, or up higher in the wall so it doesn't impeded furniture placement.

We don't like through-window because the air leaks like a sieve through the open window - you have to come up with all kinds of way to insulate around it. Plus it blocks the window and some of our cottages only have one window in the bedroom. Blocks emergency egress. And it just LOOKS worse hanging out the window both inside and out. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Mini Split (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 6:33 PM
Message:

Thanks, WMH, for explaining the difference between PTAC and through wall.

And now I understand why you donít use a window for it. Egress, blocks window, and appearance. Makes sense. Where Iím installing window ACís thereís multiple windows, but yeah, I was just thinking the other day, my house would look better if it didnít have window units sticking out the front of it. Putting through-wall AC units on the sides of the house would look better, though itís hard to judge if thereíd be a return on investment there. Thanks again

--74.102.xx.xx




Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 8:36 PM
Message:

For us, ROI is two-fold: looks better overall, thus raising the "class" of the place - even if it doesn't take from a C to a B, it probably helps make it a C+. Tenants do like the look much better. And after all, they are called "window shakers" for a reason ;) Installed in the wall, no rattle - just hum. :)

And two, for DH's purposes, much easier to replace the unit over time. Pull the old one out, slide the new one in and done. No futzing about with re-insulating the edges or worry about damaging windows, etc. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Mini Split (by ned [AL]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 10:10 PM
Message:

WMH do you know a model number that you use?

--70.92.xx.xx




Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 10:39 PM
Message:

Nowadays, we buy these two at w w w .ajmadison.com:

$869 AH093G35AX 9k - larger bedrooms (could even go smaller if they made it) and smaller living rooms.

$969 AH123G35AX 11k in more open plan living areas.

They come with their own sleeve. Still interchangeable with an old one of the same model so you don't really need the sleeve on a replacement, but this way we don't need to order it separately if we are installing new. These work for thinner walls. Wood-sided cottages, for instance.

We have a few of the Amana PBH093G35CC 9ks out there which do require a separate sleeve - they work for thicker walls (we have two of these in a brick cottage that required some WORK to get the holes cut!) --50.82.xxx.xxx




Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 10:47 PM
Message:

Sorry DH says he modifies the install to use the window units (AH models) through-walls. We don't use the true through-wall PB models anymore. Just to keep it all uniform and easily changeable.

He thinks it took us awhile to figure out what worked where. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Mini Split (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Dec 3, 2022 11:44 AM
Message:

With rentals every dollar spent have to get that back where a few months of vacancies will exceed the cost of improving energy consumption. Even improving existing equipment by adding pipe insulation then turning off a loop that is constantly running reduced wear and tear where fan coils lasted longer. In order to charge a higher rent have to show value for that. In the house considering adding high efficiency mini split heat pump where house has no Ac where it is warm in afternoon then cools off at night as a steel roof does not absorb as much heat as asphalt shingle roof. With higher energy costs in the future then using minimal efficiency equipement is less viable. Having a additional heating system where there is high efficiency wood stove along with another system where can heat one room then the other rooms at a lower temperature. --68.69.xxx.xxx




Mini Split (by ned [AL]) Posted on: Dec 3, 2022 11:57 PM
Message:

WMH-

Dumb questions-

At what height do ya'll normally install 'em?

I have a lot of 2 BR 1 BA homes...bout 800 sqft ish...

Would you assume on average...1 per each BR and 1 for Kitchen/LR....3 total? --70.92.xx.xx




Mini Split (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Dec 4, 2022 7:52 AM
Message:

If using a mini split then can have one compressor outside then have 3 devices on the wall for heating and coolng in the house at three different locations The compressor can be mounted on a stand higher up So the cost of 3 PTAC or one mini split with 3 wall monted cooling and heating devices. --68.69.xxx.xxx




Mini Split (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Dec 4, 2022 3:59 PM
Message:

Our cottages are about 650-800 square feet.

Depending on layout, we only put small 5k ACs in each bedroom (still through-wall) and one heat pump in main room (our places tend to be open kitchen/living area.) They heat the places just fine, but being the south, some people want their bedrooms colder in summer so we provide the extra AC power.

In two houses where the layout made sense, we put two heat-pumps: one in the primary bedroom, one in the main living space.

Over time we've learned that about Eye-Height is a good place to install them: you can see the controls and use them easily, but can still place furniture under or near.

We do have a few that are under-window just because that's the only wall-space that worked. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Mini Split (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Dec 5, 2022 9:29 AM
Message:

Thanks again WMH, for sharing the details of your solutions and the context they were applied. Very helpful! I was going to ask, "why through-wall for the bedrooms ACs?", but then I remembered your previous explanation on that. Let me know if you ever need that sleeve :-) --74.102.xx.xx





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