Damage control because of 'niceness' last month in overlooking a late fee stated on the lease. Woman has been paying ontime the past 6 months. Last month she was 1 day late. I told her per the terms of the lease the amount needs to be the full rent (her arrangement is its discounted if its paid ontime).

Instead she paid the discounted amount a day late.

I thought "Oh its just one day, she always pays on time....." and never said anything about it.

Well this month surpassed all my expectations. Not only is she paying a day late she informs me again, but this time its only half the rent. There rest will be a week later. "Sorry for the inconvenience" she says.

Stood ground this time and watch her be way angrier now than she would have been originally. Niceness = Ignoringing the lease terms is OK, landlord is being unreasonable for not doing it this time.

Crimeny.

What would happen if I just let this go too? Next month she won't have the rent at all. And if its more than 2 weeks late, the following month's rent comes into play and now you're instantly an oppressive bill collector, since they already got your property, now you're the bad guy. You'll probably never see it. Call me a pessimist, but I've seen it happen too many times!

Never.... ever..... stray from the lease.......

True, it will always be used against you. You get what you allow.

You neglected to consider that, once you allowed her to skip the "late fee", she has a right to expect that the late fee agreement is not enforced last month, so it is not to be enforced in the future.

Contracts are made by agreement, sometimes verbal, sometimes in writing, sometimes by behavior of the parties. You may have forfeited your right to enforce the agreement to pay late fee.

Jason, such a lease clause MAY help, but she retains certain rights that may be non-waivable (e.g., on grounds of public policy).

I am in an income business. The business just like any other business. Most here get their shorts in a wad over this.BEING LATE.

Yep its a lesson to be learned. The excuse last month was she wasn't getting her paycheck until the following day.

This month the excuse is there was an "unforseen cat medical bill".

The problem is you telling them they can disregard anything stated the lease which is asking for trouble. And that's exactly what you do when they ignore a fee and see nothing happens.

Never again! Hope I haven't blown this rental, we'll see.

I don't know about you guys but when I purchased an apartment property cheap, it means most of the time the current owners didn't manager well and had major money issues leading to massive deferred maintenance.

And our laws make it difficult to repair or change rental due dates. If a tenant's lease says they have to pay by the 1st of the month and their Social Security or Pension checks are late, due to the horrible United States Postal Service cutting staff, removing automatic sorters and increasing the work load, then tenants CAN NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR BEING LATE!

So I've had to "learn" how to WORK with my tenants and allow for minor disruption in payment of their rents.

For example all of my tenants know if the rent is going to be late, past the 5th of the month, all they have to do is call me. I guarantee to be pleasant and not berate them or belittle them, especially in front of their kids. I'll ask, and they will give me a valid excuse and what's more important they will offer me what they have now (Usually half the rent) and promise to have the rest by the 10th or 15th of the month.

You know the old saying about excuses....everyone's got one.

It's critical to understand ourselves so that we can make the adjustments necessary to do better in the future. In this case, it appears there was a policy in place, so there's nothing wrong with the mechanics of how the deal was set up. The problem is the policy was ignored. So the key thing here is to learn why you chose to ignore the policy and take steps to ensure that doesn't happen again. We must be 100% honest with ourselves when striving to improve.

I feel like we've discussed this here multiple times while you've been among us Duplexer, so you definitely have seen others talk about always charging the late fees. Not trying to brow beat you, but why did you decide not to charge the fee: Afraid? Forgot? Lazy? Other? What steps will you take to ensure this doesn't happen again?

Saying "this won't happen again" is one thing: doing something to ensure it doesn't is quite another! Good luck!

RobertJ,

You have very sound advice.

So you have learnt to work with your tenants and that should apply to a whole host of problems, not only to payment of rent. The secret is good communication, which of course requires not only politeness, but a good problem-solving approach to any problems that arise.

If you need help paying your vet bill (or whatever) you need to ask for a loan from someone who is willing and able to give you one.

That is not me.

A loan is something you apply for in advance, you do not walk into the bank and just take the money.

Quite a contrast between responses by RobertJ and MikeA. Whose advice is best?

If you don't follow Roberts Logic-- you lose WHY? because he's giving your real world experience. It's the real world.

You all won't like this but those of you who say pay the first or evict then-- well I won't call you liars but you'll be outta business in 9 months.

I am in the Robert-J camp. I have one now - Rent is due the first $10 per day Late Fee - For the last 50 months tenant pays from the first to the third.

Why do I allow payment with out a late fee? Tenant always text me on the first to tell me when she will pay. Tenant keeps the house very clean - During the 50 months I have made 6 inspections with NO issues - Causes no problems in the neighbor hood - does not complain - Keeps the yard neat - rent is market rate. MTM pays in cash.

Duplexer,

You are right - NEVER stray from the lease for several reasons:

1. You lose control - you let them decide what’s important.

2. Legal trouble My judge explained to our assoc that if WE allow something, HE must also allow it. I

3. Fair Housing Law requires we treat each person the same. They COULD force you to let EVERY res pay late without late fees.

4. We have some great people who work extra jobs, scrimp and save, amd do without to pay their rent on time. I feel it’s a slap in the face to those people when I let someone with a flimsy excuse slide.

5. My lease is clear and they initial this clause: Management does not accept late or partial payments. This will automatically trigger eviction.

6. When you just say NO they pay. They had the money or got it.

7. Back when I “worked with” late payers (translation NON payers) I often spotted a new car or box from a big screen TV from the late payer.

8 My life got sooo much easier when I stopped playing god - trying to decide who is worthy of special treatment. No more re-inventing the wheel at every message.

Stay strong. Firm and fair. Desiring to be seen as NICE is a recipe for disaster.

Duplexer,

You are right - NEVER stray from the lease for several reasons:

1. You lose control - you let them decide what’s important.

2. Legal trouble My judge explained to our assoc that if WE allow something, HE must also allow it. I

3. Fair Housing Law requires we treat each person the same. They COULD force you to let EVERY res pay late without late fees.

4. We have some great people who work extra jobs, scrimp and save, amd do without to pay their rent on time. I feel it’s a slap in the face to those people when I let someone with a flimsy excuse slide.

5. My lease is clear and they initial this clause: Management does not accept late or partial payments. This will automatically trigger eviction.

6. When you just say NO they pay. They had the money or got it.

7. Back when I “worked with” late payers (translation NON payers) I often spotted a new car or box from a big screen TV from the late payer.

8 My life got sooo much easier when I stopped playing god - trying to decide who is worthy of special treatment. No more re-inventing the wheel at every message.

Stay strong. Firm and fair. Desiring to be seen as NICE is a recipe for disaster.

when you have 60+ sfh's your gonna have people with problems. You gotta work with them and make it an income stream-- bottom line.

One of my tenants is over a month late on his water bill. Water dept has started threats of service shut-off. This news would be unremarkable except for the fact that the tenant paid his December rent a full week early.

"Moshe, I don't get it. You chide Duplexer for not enforcing late fees but praise Robert and call him wise for doing essentially the same thing. Are you, Robert, and Dino all the same person? C’mon, you can tell us."

Did I "chide" Duplexer or did I say say that "You neglected to consider..." What does "chide" mean?

Is there a contribution here?

When my 16 unit building was about to be half empty, I asked the soon to be departing tenants why they were moving. Their roommates were moving and they couldn't afford the apartment's rent on their own.

This was back in 1998. Their rents were $500 per month. If they moved across the street, for a no bedroom unit, the rent was only $375 per month.

So I said to them, when they have a roommate, each are only paying $250 per month and they split all other costs. With the single across the street, they would only pay $375 a month but also all of the other costs (phone, cable, gas and power). It was a better deal to live in a 2 bedroom and split things, but they could not pay next month full rent on their own.

So I made an offer to my 8 departing tenants. I will only charge them the lower amount of $375 per month, but they had to try and rent out the other bedroom to a good friend who's responsible. This was a limited time offer.

Most of my landlord friends thought I was nuts. But within in days tenants started to report they found a roommate and could afford to pay the full rent on the first. The last two tenants couldn't find someone to move in with them so I suggested they move in together.

Now I only had 1 apartment to paint, carpet, install blinds and change the appliances (Stove and Refrigerator).

When the 1st rolled in next month I got 15 tenants paying me their full rent. And only 1 unit did I have to loose a months rent while fixing it up to rent, at a cost of $2,000.

So I was out of pocket $2,500, instead of sticking to the lease and doing no-negotiation and loosing $2,500 x 8 =$20,000.

With the $20,000 savings, I used it on a down payment on a single family house. Then sold that house 9 years later at a $300,000 profit, after taxes. So who's the dummy, so says my friends.

I very rarely have non-paying tenants, because I am very careful about choosing tenants. When I do have one, I view it as a failure in my tenant approval.

If I did have a tenant who didn't pay on time, I would ask myself if I wanted them to stay, or not. If not, then I would proceed to let them go, and worry about how I failed to see this coming. If they were worthwhile tenants otherwise, and I could see how the whole picture can be to my advantage, I would work with them and gently encourage prompt payment. I don't charge late fees.

Landlord chooses his tenants. Failure of tenant should be seen as failure of landlord's procedure for choosing tenants.

"I would work with them and gently encourage prompt payment."

Yeah right, when you are dealing with an entitled bully let me know how that works out for you. Lets see, she has already intentionally stole from him last month, lied by doing something different than was in the lease, and then bullied him through anger to get her way. Not someone who is going to roll over by gently encouraging payment.

Duplexer- did she pay in full?

We have been a little lenient as well. You learn when to put the foot down. Lesson over the years-if you let it slide as a more than once, it becomes habit.

Not to throw a curve ball, but what is it about some people that makes them think that paying for housing is less important than other things?

"what is it about some people that makes them think that paying for housing is less important than other things?"

How did you end up with such a tenant?

Didn't you know they were like that before you rented to then?

In areas of California, crazy legal clinics send out direct mailers to tenants who have had a case filed against them or by referral. Letting tenants know they do not have to pay rent if they hire this legal clinic. They will file for the Corvid protections act or file a phony bankruptcy. And when a landlord tries to pull eviction records, for now, you are prohibited from the last 60 days so the tenant find housing and cheat another landlord out of the rent money.

So don't be too quick to complain about some landlords making a bad choice.

I had a vacancy and ran 14 groups of credit reports for my applicants, only finding the best 3 failed my requirements.

If I didn't fill this unit quickly, then the Housing Department would have shoved a Section 8 up my keister and I'd have to accept them.

A tenant called me yesterday afternoon and says he can't pay rent until Monday the 5th. His is due on the 3rd. I politely reminded him that he will be cutting it close since I automatically file for eviction on the 6th. His payment dropped into my account at 10:17 this morning.

I'm not saying that all LLs should adhere to this practice. I have C/D tenants that once behind, might never get caught up. ZT is essential for me.

Interesting read .... seems to be divide between those who insist they are in the "housing business" and those who see the housing business as a "people business".

Speaking from the hood, my tenants are where they are for a reason. Largely underachievers who are content to live check to check (and NOT necessarily a pay check). These are NOT rule followers. They don't swim up stream nor do they see a need to. So thinking you will "mold" them into model tenants is simply unrealistic.

Tyran and some others know the facts. Most ll's. Don't own multiple units in lala land but in real America.

When you let them slide a little, “wait to see how it works out”, persuasion, deal making, setting up a payment plan, being “nice”...then when you finally put your foot down and file, they go berserk! “You are a slumlord!”

Experienced LLs know these tactics do not work and lead to TONS of frustration and unpaid rent.

BRAD who said anything about being nice?

For 63 SFH's and many many late payers since 1986 its worked out well and made us a small fortune in fees.

You may not consider 63 SFH's and 35 yrs experience as a nON-EXPERIENCED LL'D but we feel we are.

No, we don't sell anything or collect fee's for books. I've read some of these so call expert books and they suc****.

Get rich quick books-- yea get the book writer rich selling BS.

Frustrations-- like collecting garnishments? yes very frustrating.

or advise those here don't waste yur time going after debt?????

I say work with people in your market. You know your clients and know your courts.

BRAD now that I've cooled off some.

your statement: "Experienced LLs know these tactics do not work and lead to TONS of frustration and unpaid rent".

So your blanket statement is only your way??? Never work with tenants-- never work it out??? We all know in today's atmosphere that statement is wrong. WHY? cause the first thing the judge says in court-- have you tried to work it out?

Don't know who you think you are BRAD? Let me be the first to tell you that's BS. Pay on time or out-- yea and I have a bridge in Brookly for sale!

Me thinks MYOB doesn't believe in Zero T, lol.

I believe in it, in theory.

In practice, I've not implemented it.

I do believe it begins with screening.

Then education of tenant at front end.

Ned u made my point. We ALL want to be zero T but real world that's lala land .

Saying it's never allowed is misleadingbto those starting out who believe the word as the gospel from some posters here. The EXPERIENCED ONES!!!