where are the workers?
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where are the workers? (by morgan [MA]) Nov 25, 2022 2:36 PM
       where are the workers? (by Richard [MI]) Nov 25, 2022 2:48 PM
       where are the workers? (by Moshe [CA]) Nov 25, 2022 3:54 PM
       where are the workers? (by Ken [NY]) Nov 25, 2022 4:10 PM
       where are the workers? (by Ed [CA]) Nov 25, 2022 4:11 PM
       where are the workers? (by Moshe [CA]) Nov 25, 2022 4:29 PM
       where are the workers? (by ned [AL]) Nov 25, 2022 4:42 PM
       where are the workers? (by Victor [MA]) Nov 25, 2022 5:49 PM
       where are the workers? (by Moshe [CA]) Nov 25, 2022 6:18 PM
       where are the workers? (by zero [IN]) Nov 25, 2022 6:33 PM
       where are the workers? (by Ken [NY]) Nov 25, 2022 7:24 PM
       where are the workers? (by Morgan [MA]) Nov 25, 2022 7:34 PM
       where are the workers? (by DJ [VA]) Nov 25, 2022 7:55 PM
       where are the workers? (by Ed [CA]) Nov 25, 2022 7:56 PM
       where are the workers? (by gevans [SC]) Nov 25, 2022 8:32 PM
       where are the workers? (by Ken [NY]) Nov 25, 2022 8:33 PM
       where are the workers? (by JR [ME]) Nov 25, 2022 9:13 PM
       where are the workers? (by DJ [VA]) Nov 25, 2022 9:18 PM
       where are the workers? (by DJ [VA]) Nov 25, 2022 9:21 PM
       where are the workers? (by 6x6 [TN]) Nov 25, 2022 9:36 PM
       where are the workers? (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Nov 25, 2022 9:43 PM
       where are the workers? (by 6x6 [TN]) Nov 25, 2022 9:48 PM
       where are the workers? (by WL [CA]) Nov 25, 2022 10:17 PM
       where are the workers? (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Nov 26, 2022 12:10 AM
       where are the workers? (by GKARL [PA]) Nov 26, 2022 1:44 AM
       where are the workers? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Nov 26, 2022 2:58 AM
       where are the workers? (by Mapleaf18 [NY]) Nov 26, 2022 5:42 AM
       where are the workers? (by myob [GA]) Nov 26, 2022 7:57 AM
       where are the workers? (by mark [MA]) Nov 26, 2022 9:07 AM
       where are the workers? (by Kevin [FL]) Nov 26, 2022 9:28 AM
       where are the workers? (by jonny [NY]) Nov 26, 2022 10:25 AM
       where are the workers? (by Moshe [CA]) Nov 26, 2022 12:18 PM
       where are the workers? (by Vee [OH]) Nov 26, 2022 12:20 PM
       where are the workers? (by Moshe [CA]) Nov 26, 2022 12:36 PM
       where are the workers? (by Ken [NY]) Nov 26, 2022 12:37 PM
       where are the workers? (by Moshe [CA]) Nov 26, 2022 1:02 PM
       where are the workers? (by Ken [NY]) Nov 26, 2022 1:35 PM
       where are the workers? (by JR [ME]) Nov 26, 2022 2:06 PM
       where are the workers? (by WMH [NC]) Nov 26, 2022 9:49 PM
       where are the workers? (by MikeA [TX]) Nov 26, 2022 11:49 PM
       where are the workers? (by Don [PA]) Nov 27, 2022 1:44 AM
       where are the workers? (by DJ [VA]) Nov 27, 2022 7:56 AM
       where are the workers? (by MC [PA]) Nov 27, 2022 9:00 AM
       where are the workers? (by RB [TN]) Nov 27, 2022 9:37 AM
       where are the workers? (by tryan [MA]) Nov 27, 2022 2:43 PM
       where are the workers? (by zero [IN]) Nov 27, 2022 3:28 PM
       where are the workers? (by Hollis [MA]) Nov 27, 2022 4:24 PM
       where are the workers? (by gevans [SC]) Nov 27, 2022 4:30 PM
       where are the workers? (by MikeA [TX]) Nov 27, 2022 4:48 PM
       where are the workers? (by Barb [MO]) Nov 27, 2022 8:27 PM
       where are the workers? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Nov 28, 2022 12:00 AM
       where are the workers? (by MC [PA]) Nov 28, 2022 5:53 AM
       where are the workers? (by S i d [MO]) Nov 28, 2022 9:11 AM
       where are the workers? (by Dee Ann [WI]) Nov 28, 2022 2:33 PM
       where are the workers? (by MC [PA]) Nov 28, 2022 3:17 PM
       where are the workers? (by Chris [CT]) Nov 28, 2022 4:46 PM
       where are the workers? (by LordZen [MA]) Nov 28, 2022 7:00 PM
       where are the workers? (by Ed [CA]) Dec 2, 2022 4:29 PM

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where are the workers? (by morgan [MA]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 2:36 PM
Message:

Man, ...I called 6 electricians over the last 2 months, only 1 called to say he couldn't work in that town.

Then trying to hire a handyman for one area, no return calls (couldn't find any reference to many)

Called about a dozen people/companies to put down a new floor in a tiny bathroom and finally did get someone and had to pay a very high amout to do it.

Our 3 drug stores closed their drive up windows as the sign says that had to because of short of staff,

Signs all over saying "we are hiring".

Our hospitals are saying they are very short staffed as well as vetinarians and their staffs.

Had to do a small patch on a roof, (i'm injured and can't do it) tiny area,..1700.00,... I could have done what he did in about an hour.

So where did all the workers go? How are they paying for things now.? Surely the gov has stopped paying now, or are there programs I am not aware of,..

--96.236.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 2:48 PM
Message:

Same around here. If you can find any workers, even hangymen, they want 65-100+ an hour cash. --75.7.xx.xx




where are the workers? (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 3:54 PM
Message:

So, shortage of workers means that price demands go up and accommodations are hard to find.

Why doesn't supply-and-demand Capitalism solve that for you?

--47.139.xx.xxx




where are the workers? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 4:10 PM
Message:

Because socialism is interfering,govt paying and encouraging people to sit home on the couch --74.77.xx.xx




where are the workers? (by Ed [CA]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 4:11 PM
Message:

According to the conservative chatter I see all over the web, we should be literally drowning in immigrants (legal and otherwise). If that were true, costs would be appropriately lower.

Wait until people see the cost of produce that has to be hand-picked later this year.

--108.201.xx.xx




where are the workers? (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 4:29 PM
Message:

"According to the conservative chatter I see all over the web, we should be literally drowning in immigrants (legal and otherwise). If that were true, costs would be appropriately lower. "

Thats right, isn't it?

So, is Ken's explanation worthy of consideration?

--47.139.xx.xxx




where are the workers? (by ned [AL]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 4:42 PM
Message:

Not complicated. Allow more immigration, in a controlled manner while at the same time cutting government programs that incentivize lack of productivity.

Not complicated. Also not likely to happen. Once the politicians start buying votes with handouts hard to stop em. --70.92.xx.xx




where are the workers? (by Victor [MA]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 5:49 PM
Message:

Morgan what area of MA? SE MA seems to be tons of folks in unmarked white vans that want to pick up work. Now if you are looking for remote parts of MA could see that being an issue. --24.34.x.xxx




where are the workers? (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 6:18 PM
Message:

So what's the answer?

Is it impossible to find workers or are they plentiful, but not willing to work for low wages?

Are workers withholding their talents for more money? For other reasons?

Anyone know anything for certain?

--47.139.xx.xxx




where are the workers? (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 6:33 PM
Message:

In my little area of Indiana I can't find help worth a crap. The fast food joints are paying $16 an hour. There are a lot of distribution centers that opened up and after the bug scare they are starting people at over $20 an hour.

I can't pay a grunt who knows nothing that kind of money and make it. Heck I was only paying my skilled guy $16 a couple years ago. Would happily pay him $20 when I need him but he is over $25 and won't leave unless I can keep him at or above 40 hours a week.

You go to a restaurant and can't get good service because nobody shows up but they won't fire them because they need help. The ones that care are getting worked to death and then eventually quit as well.

Somebody come up with a solution, please. The small areas are hurting too. I can't start bumping my rents that much to accommodate what people want or the cycle continues and everybody loses.

Also, I am not being a cheap skate. I have no problems paying for what something is worth, it's just that now everyone expects so much more. --107.147.xx.xxx




where are the workers? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 7:24 PM
Message:

zero, if your rents are worth more you need to increase them then you can afford to pay your workers more.My expenses have gone up but my rents and sale prices are up enough to cover it --74.77.xx.xx




where are the workers? (by Morgan [MA]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 7:34 PM
Message:

Victor, maybe those white vans should consider driving a few hours to western Ma,... also I have the same problems in my buildings in NY in the Hudson Valley, from Kingston to Albany Not sure about other nesrby areas. --66.30.xx.xxx




where are the workers? (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 7:55 PM
Message:

I'm having a hard time finding skilled labor - I did hire an electrician, but no plumber yet, after calling around for a week.

It's not a matter of pay. I'm paying the electrician what he wants & hoping they are good so I can use them again.

They won't even respond to my inquiry or if they do, they are slow or never show up to view the work. One (plumber) who did look & said he'd do the job has dissapeared & never gave me a price.

So, for me, it's NOT a matter of how much I'm willing to pay. I can't even get quotes, not asking for discounts.

Whatever the reason is, the result is that I have long delays getting work done & need to do more myself than I want to. This means more holding costs & longer until I can start to get rent. --68.229.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by Ed [CA]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 7:56 PM
Message:

"So, is Ken's explanation worthy of consideration?"

To my knowledge most or all gov programs that were paying out during covid aren't doing so anymore. If I'm wrong, please provide a link.

Also, comparing today vs pre-covid, my rents are up more than the difference I have to pay contractors. Could it be there are landlords who haven't kept up on their rents, and are expecting contractors / handyman to work for the same wages they made 2 years ago despite their housing / food costs going up? --108.201.xx.xx




where are the workers? (by gevans [SC]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 8:32 PM
Message:

My best current point of reference is roofing. I have called FOUR roofers and told them I have FOUR roofs I want them to bid. All four said they would come look and give me a bid.

Crickets. Not one got back with me. I did not offer low wages; I offered them to look at the job and set their price. No takers.

These are standard shingle roofs, nothing out of the ordinary. No steep pitches, No two layer tear offs, just standard jobs. I can't even get a quote.

What has changed in the past ten years: used to see laborers at Lowes with "work wanted" signs. I could hire day laborers with no problems. Now all I see are a dozen "homeless" people with "please help, God bless"signs. And they are there every day. It IS their job!! --216.218.xxx.xx




where are the workers? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 8:33 PM
Message:

DJ, have you thought about hiring a handyman as an employee? couple flips a year while he is not doing turnovers should keep him busy and make enough to pay him then you have a guy available all the time --74.77.xx.xx




where are the workers? (by JR [ME]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 9:13 PM
Message:

So,, multiple posters say they canít find workers regardless of the price they are offering to pay. Kinda shoots the ďYou donít pay enoughĒ argument to Hades, doesnít it?

For decades we have under-invested in the trades. Our American culture over-values the worth of a college education in useless majors. A B.A. in grievance studies doesnít prepare anyone for useful work.

The pandemic and unrestrained government spending pushed millions, especially blue collar workers, say those aged 55 to 62 into semi-early retirements. Now two years retired, they will never return to work. Another large group that never returned to work is mothers of young children who can not find affordable childcare. They will be out of the workforce for several more years, at least.

Those who say ďif you just pay more you would get all the workers you wantĒ donít walk in the shoes of many on this board. --98.13.xx.xxx




where are the workers? (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 9:18 PM
Message:

Ken - I don't do that much business / have that much work. Ive done an average of maybe 1 rehab / year the last few years(more than normal)[. Once it's rehabbed & rented to good folks, there isn't need for repairs any time soon.

I do have a framer / handyman I have hired for several jobs now. He is good, and I've referred others to him. He has also referred me to a concrete guy who should be able to take care of my sunken floor.

I'm waiting for him to be available Jan 1st to do work on the house I just bought to rehab. And I'll pay him what he wants. That's the soonest he's available after commitments he's already made to other jobs. Then he will focus on just MY job until its done. He won't juggle 3 jobs at once, & only show up a couple times a week.

He doesn't do plumbing or electrical - I'm talking total re-plumb & total re-wire & service upgrade.

I really just need a plumber now. I better start looking for a painter now, so I'll find one by the time I need them (Eye roll - Ugh!) --68.229.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 9:21 PM
Message:

AMEN, JR!! --68.229.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 9:36 PM
Message:

Maybe DIY is king?

If someone wants $6,000.00 to do something that you could do yourself for $1,000.00, even if it took you a whole month to do what they might do in a few days, are you not ahead at the end result? If you could have gotten the property rented almost a month sooner, if you can only get $2,000.00 a month in rent, and had no expenses, you just paid yourself $3,000.00. If you multiply that by several different jobs, isn't DIY a better option? I think so, unless you just simply don't want to do the work. --73.113.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 9:43 PM
Message:

They expect more while outputting far less effort. They know they can be as lazy and worthless as you'll allow or they can find another job tomorrow. --108.69.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 9:48 PM
Message:

Shrinkflation of labor --73.113.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by WL [CA]) Posted on: Nov 25, 2022 10:17 PM
Message:

Where are the workers? Busy smoking superpot and meth! Just read an article today how the pot from the 70s was low in THC and the new stuff is high potency and the marijuana wax in vape pens is almost 100 percent THC. Causes psychosis, paranoia etc. The marijuana "wax" they smoke is the modern oxycontin - your workers are wandering around in their minds on cloud nine, while getting welfare and food bank goodies from your taxes. --174.65.x.xxx




where are the workers? (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 12:10 AM
Message:

During the pandemic some poeple lost there jobs where some were temporary and others the business closed down. Governments responded by giving more generous UI benefits. Welfare here is generation after generation where this country never military conscription where if someone went overseas then did not come back the family would not go into severe hardship where that became a way of life. I remember on progressive conservative government brought in work fare not welfare where they cut the number of poeple on social assistance numbers in half where three strikes you are out for life then people voted in the leftist Liberals who closed down the welfare cheat hotline then lifted the ban on the lifetime welfate cheats where they quit jobs then went on social assistance all over again where a few months later seen some businesses close down. Oh the anti poverty activists said it is inhuman to cut off the people who were cheating on welfare. Suppose a province or state brought in workfare then would see more poeple working for living instead of smoking marijuana making there health worse. --68.69.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 1:44 AM
Message:

Handymen are very difficult to find and when you find them, they often have a shelf life that varies before they spoil. I need an element replaced on a HW heater and have a plumbing company that dispatches plumbers on these sorts of jobs. Probably will cost me $ 350 but it's worth it versus me messing around with it. Had a dishwasher and microwave to install a couple of days ago, I had Lowe's do that. Got a couple of lights to install, I'll do that. Basically, I DIY some and am able to offload some. I try to limit my DIY to non emergency type stuff. I prefer not to do, but that's far less frustrating. It's like I'm forced into DIY in certain situations. On bigger projects, I'm generally able to find help. It's the small stuff that's the problem. --209.122.xx.xxx




where are the workers? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 2:58 AM
Message:

The youngsters don't have the job skills. They all got college loans so they could get a nice desk job with air conditioning and they are all too good to work with their hands.

My good workers were all up there in age and gradually, they all retired. It took me a full year to find a painter who would show up and paint. He is really expensive, but at least he does good work, but he is in his 50's. My good carpet cleaner is pushing 60.

The same for other vocational skills. My son drives a tanker truck and with only one exception all the drivers are in their 50's and 60's and getting close to retirement with no younger drivers coming up behind them to fill their positions when they quit. --76.178.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by Mapleaf18 [NY]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 5:42 AM
Message:

Amen Oregon and JR.

Not to worry. It will soon become an employer's market as the mass layoffs have started.

Domino effect. --64.246.xxx.xx




where are the workers? (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 7:57 AM
Message:

Have you called GA, FL,TX, NC,SC?

--108.239.xx.xx




where are the workers? (by mark [MA]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 9:07 AM
Message:

I guess I still wondER HOW most people still are paying their bills,..like it was a problem before, not not now?

I heard that 7 million workers in the 25-55 cantlet are elegible but apparently are not working ... --66.30.xx.xxx




where are the workers? (by Kevin [FL]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 9:28 AM
Message:

They donít need to work while living with mom, the big guy just extended the student loan discount another eight months.

Try being in the hurricane zone, we canít get workers or supplies.

--47.205.xxx.xx




where are the workers? (by jonny [NY]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 10:25 AM
Message:

My go to handyman that did A LOT and pretty much everything I needed and was VERY dependable retired in the Spring of this past year. He will help me on MY personal house and/or rentals but not the business ones (and he has his owns that I manage as well... but he will obviously work on those).

I had a tenant leave in July and I JUST got the apartment cleaned and painted. I could not get ANYONE to call me back then, two showed and then disappeared... wouldn't even answer or return calls after we met.

I finally asked the guy that does work for me (he does outside work, porches, doors, roof, etc) and he suggested his brother... he came, cleaned, painted and fixed what I needed... reasonable priced and within a week or so everything was done (and more).

So maybe ask the people that you do have that will call you back and do work for you (that you trust) to see if they know anyone that does what you need.

--69.201.xx.xxx




where are the workers? (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 12:18 PM
Message:

But I don't understand.

Why hasn't supply and demand Capitalism solved this problem?

The need is present, posters say that they are willing to pay whatever it takes. So, why hasn't the free market shown up to supply workers for those that need them and are willing to pay?

--47.139.xx.xxx




where are the workers? (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 12:20 PM
Message:

About 10 years ago I began hiring young arms, knees and ankles of friends of my previous workforce which came from boy and girl scout troops - that concept kinda leveled off when scouts wanted to switch from one version to the other and back a year later. You have to scout out workers from somewhere entirely away from the trade you are trying to fill, coffee shop employees looking for something different from cleaning a coffee stained kitchen - if they can't swing a paint roller maybe they know someone who will fill the position better. This is how politics work, one gets elected who does not understand the project but knows someone who they think can do it so they gather friends to form a -tag team approach-, you get what you vote for. --76.190.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 12:36 PM
Message:

But why don't workers (including young people) gravitate toward high-paying jobs in the home repair sector? Thats how the free market is supposed to work, isn't it? Workers will fill highest paying jobs when the demand raises prices enough?

Why hasn't that worked?

--47.139.xx.xxx




where are the workers? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 12:37 PM
Message:

Moshe, if the govt would stop giving them free everything they would go back to work,they are so accustomed to not working now that anyone who only works for a paycheck.Hunger used to work until govt decided noone should go hungry --74.77.xx.xx




where are the workers? (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 1:02 PM
Message:

So, free-market Capitalism works only when people are hungry?

So, maybe we should force everyone to go hungry, to make a more efficient, more productive work force. Think of the increased GDP, the effect on the USD, overall productivity of the USA, which would increase our leverage in the rest of the world (like vis-a-vis Russia in Ukraine) (or China).

Are YOU hungry? Is that what motivates YOU?

--47.139.xx.xxx




where are the workers? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 1:35 PM
Message:

I am self motivated by the enjoyment of doing what i do.But many people only work for money so if the govt didnt give away free stuff to everyone those people would have to go back to work if they didnt want to be hungry --74.77.xx.xx




where are the workers? (by JR [ME]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 2:06 PM
Message:

Moshe, as a worldly, educated experienced person that you are, it surprises me that you donít know the answer to the question that you keep posting. The answer lies that, for many, maybe most people, once they reach ďenoughĒ for their basic needs, they have very little drive to achieve more. If our government provides for our basic needs, housing, food, Internet, for many of us thatís enough, and trying to earn more by actually working, especially at a job that may not be fun. Itís just more than they want to do. there is a reason that half of Americans have no assets.

So, if you dispute my answer, how about supplying one of your own? --174.196.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 9:49 PM
Message:

Fathers are not passing down skills to sons much anymore. Either they are absent entirely, weekend visitors, or unskilled themselves...and any women in the trades are still very few and far between.

It's a skills gap, not a worker gap. --50.82.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Nov 26, 2022 11:49 PM
Message:

Where have all the workers gone?

The economy is still hotter than ever meaning there are more jobs than ever before. At the same time 2.6 million people more than normal retired during the pandemic, that's about 2% of the workforce. The workforce is smaller now than before the pandemic. Supply and demand is working, where the demand is highest wages have gone up. Just look at CDL truckers, three years ago these jobs pulled in about $40K per year, last year a friend was paying $125K with a sign on bonus to get CDL licensed people, now that more have jumped into this trade he's now hiring at $90K and having way less problem doing it.

Retirements hit the trades higher than other industries because the average age was in the 60's. Unlike a CDL which you can finish in a 6 week school, it takes over 3 years to become a journeyman and at least 5 to become a master so there is a lag. In addition, with the hot market construction is going on everywhere so demand is through the roof to the point that resources are scarce. This isn't the first time we have been at this stage of the supply-demand cycle in the US, it has happened dozens of times over the last 100 years. Supply will come up, demand will go down, it just doesn't happen overnight.

Case in point. The son of a close friend is an apprentice electrician, just finished his first 6 months. Three years ago that would have been a $12/hour job for the first 2 years. He just got a raise to $35/hour working one of the big construction companies locally, by his 1 year anniversary he is expecting to make $45/hour. Those kind of wages are pulling in quite a few motivated younger people, especially the first and second generation Americans from immigrant families. There is a significant ethnic change happening in the trades today.

I'm not having any problem hiring skilled trades locally but we have a higher percentage of recently immigrated families than most of the nation. Those kids are still motivated by money. Most multi-generational American kids were given everything so didn't developed a good work ethic. Rather than work for their achievements they demand everything be given to them as their "right" because they exist. Unfortunately, bad parenting and bad policies are encouraging more of this and it creates a drag on the economy. I believe you are seeing it beginning to drag down and slow the supply/demand self correcting cycles as a result. Inflation and shortages will hanging around longer than necessary because of this.

--209.205.xxx.xx




where are the workers? (by Don [PA]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2022 1:44 AM
Message:

We need to have our own working class, and pay them what is necessary. Depending on a never ending stream of immigrants to suppress wages is not ultimately sustainable. When will that be? When we have 400 million people here? 500 million? A billion? Our economy needs immigrants like a drug addict needs heroin.

From 1922-1965 we had low immigration and somehow the nation functioned. Buildings were constructed, restaurants functioned, all without massive immigration. --73.194.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2022 7:56 AM
Message:

For the last 2-3 generations, society has told young people that if you are smart, you go to college - not into building trades.

Only now are some "people with power to influence" beginning to say that maybe not everyone needs to go the college route. Too little, too late.

The same 2-3 generations have been taught by public schools not to think for themselves, but to follow whatever is the trend in the media, or hat their misguided "educators" tell them. Since their parents were taught the same thing..... it goes on.

I suspect that the more hard-working/responsible (not just in a position of responsibility, but truly take responsibility for their actions) folks in our society had parents or some person with influence over them who were old-school & taught them differently than what the "public consensus" has been preaching.

BTW: to say the 'smart" kids don't go into the trades is so ridiculous! Do you know how smart / good with math & geometry you need to be to frame a dormer in a roof? --68.229.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by MC [PA]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2022 9:00 AM
Message:

DJ-I know you need math skills for the trades. Bad news is many struggle with it. Good news is you might not always have the answers but you know what you need to look it up.. My PT employer just paid for my skills class-which I passed. They believe in the trades and know that those who are in the know are appreciated. Part of the issue is that we have a lazy society who want to sit on their butts and get paid big bucks. Great theory but how much are you paying that kid to flip a switch on the weekend because you didn't know how and your entitled butt can't go a weekend without hot water?? --73.230.xxx.xx




where are the workers? (by RB [TN]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2022 9:37 AM
Message:

Thanks for reminding me why I never took my tools

out of the truck,

nor did I ever worry about how I spent my precious time

fixing things and being proactive, at rentals.

YOUCANGOYOUROWNWAY.

--24.183.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by tryan [MA]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2022 2:43 PM
Message:

Little bit funny .... hired a contractor to strip the exterior of my log cabin. Got talking about labor shortages. He said he hired a pan-handler off the street corner for a day of physical labor. "If this work out you'll have a full time job " he tells him.

End of the day he pays him cash and asks where he can be picked up tomorrow. He looks at the cash he was paid and says "I'll be at the same corner. But I am not working for you ... I can make more pan-handling at that location."

Validates my reason not to give cash. --206.84.xx.xxx




where are the workers? (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2022 3:28 PM
Message:

Validates my reason not to hire pan handlers --107.147.xx.xxx




where are the workers? (by Hollis [MA]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2022 4:24 PM
Message:

Tyran,

did it occur to you what might happen if that panhandler gets injured in working for you?( that could be a also injury orchestrated for disability)

When I was a kid, I mowed a dozen lawns a week. I often was in great trouble if we had days of a lot of rain to catch up...Fall and Spring clean ups, then winter ice and snow removal.

Also some other kids in the neighborhood were doing work in the neighborhood. Part of the problem now is that kids rather not do any physical work, and don't seem to need money to buy things that their parents buy for them..I saw the trend happening even when I was a kid. But now I can't remember when I saw a kid doing lawn work, raking, simple painting,cleanups etc., etc.

about 20 years ago the high school near me developed something they called "Rent a Kid". You could contact the school and they would send one over at a prescribed range of money, to do various different chores. I had hired a few but It didn't last long. And I hired a few. However most dropped out very quickly.

Now I wouldn't think of it unless the school had their own insurance which I don't think they did. One day early on, I started to think about the injury and insurance factor. and a quick call to my insurance company told me that they would not be covered.

And can you imagine your liability if one of those young people got hurt, especially if it was severe and prolonged? The same might go for a panhandler, and again may be an incentive for someone to fake an injury. --185.199.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by gevans [SC]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2022 4:30 PM
Message:

Tryan,

One of my local friends used to have a worker in his scrap metal business. The former employee showed up with some scrap the other day. Former boss asked if he would like his job back?

He said no, he makes over $250/day just holding a "please help" sign and pays no taxes on that.

It's too easy to not have a job in today's America. --216.218.xxx.xx




where are the workers? (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2022 4:48 PM
Message:

Funny you mention panhandlers. Our city has recently been taken over by panhandlers. The city used to arrest them and issue a citation which went unpaid and didn't discourage the behavior, it just created a huge mess.

They just came up with a new tactic, they now cite people who hand money to the panhandlers along the streets. In reality, this is where the problem lies. They are running a big ad campaign to enlighten people to where their money is really going (uncovering how this money is feeding the drug use, scammers, etc). There are plenty of resources for homeless and those truly in need so there is no reason for the legitimate to be out panhandling. The city is working in partnership with the benevolence community to show a much more effective way to donate to the needy. In a few weeks after this ad campaign runs a while, they will start citing people for giving money along the roadways. I predict the number of panhandlers will drop drastically in the next couple of months. --209.205.xxx.xx




where are the workers? (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Nov 27, 2022 8:27 PM
Message:

The high school students donít get fast food jobs because they are as over-scheduled in high school, between sports, clubs, etc, as they were as younger kids.

The college kids donít get jobs while in college because they need to concentrate on their studying.

Our students have been told for the last 50+ years, go to college. You get ahead by going to college and working for a big company in an office.

This was true 20 years ago when I was teaching high school - we were sending kids to college who had NO BUSINESS there and should have gone to trade school. In an earlier time, they would have gotten a manufacturing job, but those are mostly gone.

It was true 40 years ago when I was in high school. The push was to go to college.

My own dad didnít have home repair skills, he was born during WW2, his father spent the years after the war working for the railroad, but depended on HIS father-in-law to help with home repairs. So my dad never really learned home repair skills. Since he didnít know them, he didnít teach them to me.

Everything I do I have learned by trial and error, or from a book, or a video.

I figured out how to lay the Allure flooring because I could compare it to sewing. Sewing I can do! --149.76.xxx.xx




where are the workers? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Nov 28, 2022 12:00 AM
Message:

Four out of three contractors struggle with fractions --24.101.xxx.xxx




where are the workers? (by MC [PA]) Posted on: Nov 28, 2022 5:53 AM
Message:

Some of mine went to college and some didn't. They all have different skill sets. My non college ones get called by more people to do jobs for them. They have also learned who to say NO to. --73.230.xxx.xx




where are the workers? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Nov 28, 2022 9:11 AM
Message:

I see the deer-in-the-headlights obvious answer hasn't been affirmatively established yet, though Ken hints at it:

Why isn't Capitalism/Supply Demand keeping the market supplied with laborers?

I'll keep this really short and sweet, with my uneducated, unsophisticated MidWest hillbilly-ism.

THE. GOVT. IS. GIVING. THEM. FREE. STUFF.

As for me, we're still doing pretty well with labor here in the MidWest. I can give you the answer to why this is the case here as well. The answer is.

HERE. THE. GOVT. ISN'T. GIVING. PEOPLE. AS. MUCH. FREE. STUFF.

We're more conservative where I live. A wealth gap exists, but it's much smaller than on the East and Left Coasts. Most of us are middle class or can become middle class, if we wish to be and will expend the time, effort and wisdom to do it.

I will also note how the wealth imbalances are the worst in heavily Left leaning areas. It's also worth mentioning how rents are highest in Left leaning areas. They're so sophisticated and wiser than we MidWest hillbillies that they managed to make their problems worse, yet still for some reason think conservatives are to blame. Rationalization at its finest, I suppose.

So step one is end the subsidies of higher education. We've got enough gender's studies majors for the time-being, thank yew...

Then we have to wait a bit. It takes a 8-12 years to train up a new group of tradesmen. The Govt has been increasingly subsidizing "higher" education for the past 2-3 generation. The result is predictable: we ended up with a surplus of highly sophisticate academics who are content to lecture people on public internet forums and not enough Mark Rowe's tradesmen. So we must do the obvious thing: pull the plug on the subsidies and this will motivate more people to seek skilled trades because they are cheaper to learn, take less time to learn, and they do pay very well because there is plenty of demand.

Even if we end the subsidies today, we have to expect the labor crunch to take at least a decade to start coming back into alignment. In business, we call this the "lead time", or some call it the "ramp up" period. It takes time for the next generation of trainees to do their homework, practice their craft, and enter the market as skilled tradesmen. Maybe higher academia doesn't cover this basic business concept, so I'm happy to fill in the gaps as a former educator myself.

Let me know if I need to cite another PhD like I did in my last post on Rent Control. It appears some folks won't accept common sense now unless it's backed up with a triple dipped sheep skin.

--184.4.xx.xx




where are the workers? (by Dee Ann [WI]) Posted on: Nov 28, 2022 2:33 PM
Message:

I paid my way thru college with no loans to pay when I graduated. Started a small summer childcare business with a friend for the neighborhood that allowed mothers to get their hair done and run errands afternoons twice a week. Then worked afternoons in an office in senior high school. Then worked two jobs for a year until I had the money. Once in college I worked 2 jobs each summer, two jobs during the school year in my field, and 3 jobs my last year and 18 credits. Never got scholarships; my bad, didn't apply, parents had their own issues.

Are the kids doing any of this now? I'm likely out of touch. At Thanksgiving, I'm hearing of nephews and nieces and the schools they are wanting to go to. Out of state schools??? Let's get real on who's paying for this. I don't see this person working... --75.11.xx.xx




where are the workers? (by MC [PA]) Posted on: Nov 28, 2022 3:17 PM
Message:

The one I have that went,paid on thier own. Employer is paying for advanced degrees for that child via reimbursement. We get very heated over erasing debt in my family. --73.230.xxx.xx




where are the workers? (by Chris [CT]) Posted on: Nov 28, 2022 4:46 PM
Message:

This has been coming for the past 20 years, its only going to get worse in the trades.

Having said that I am finding a lot of younger good workers, they do exist. They are just rare!

The trades are going to all immigrants, Americans don't want to get sweaty. They rather make $50k a year in an air conditioned office vs $100k a year pulling wires. --32.219.xxx.xx




where are the workers? (by LordZen [MA]) Posted on: Nov 28, 2022 7:00 PM
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Same here, is a PITA to get a decent reliable person... --98.216.xx.xxx




where are the workers? (by Ed [CA]) Posted on: Dec 2, 2022 4:29 PM
Message:

I've been involved with Boy Scouts for years. My experience has been that if the parents raise the kid (boy or girl) to be a good worker and take pride in a job well done, no government handout is going to change that attitude. I think giving a trophy to every kid is a larger part of the problem. --108.201.xx.xx



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