Paging: Ken (NY)
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Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Oct 7, 2022 9:47 AM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Oct 7, 2022 9:59 AM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Oct 7, 2022 10:26 AM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by Nicole [PA]) Oct 7, 2022 10:38 AM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Oct 7, 2022 11:53 AM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by S i d [MO]) Oct 7, 2022 12:00 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Oct 7, 2022 12:01 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by S i d [MO]) Oct 7, 2022 12:28 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by Ken [NY]) Oct 7, 2022 3:50 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Oct 7, 2022 4:15 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Oct 7, 2022 5:04 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by Ken [NY]) Oct 7, 2022 6:14 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Oct 7, 2022 7:44 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by Ken [NY]) Oct 7, 2022 8:21 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by 6x6 [TN]) Oct 7, 2022 9:06 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Oct 7, 2022 10:50 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by PG [SC]) Oct 8, 2022 9:32 AM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Oct 8, 2022 11:19 AM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by wmh [NC]) Oct 8, 2022 1:32 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Oct 8, 2022 2:14 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by WMH [NC]) Oct 8, 2022 6:06 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by 6x6 [TN]) Oct 8, 2022 6:10 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by RB [TN]) Oct 8, 2022 7:46 PM
       Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Oct 8, 2022 7:46 PM

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 9:47 AM


Less than a year ago, I was approached by a total stranger who told me " I heard through the grapevine that you buy houses and I would like you to buy my house'. Long story short, I ended up buying his house at wholesale, rehabbed it, and now it is rented out at 1,000/month.

Lighting has struck again and in the same neighborhood too ! Last Monday, I got a text from someone I had met 5 years ago and he had kept my number stored in his phone. He has a house that he bought for his aging sister just 2 years ago and now that sister has been moved to a nursing home. According to him, the house needs work and in about 3 hours I am going to see the inside of the house and make the determination if this house is worth pursuing. His asking price is $60K which he thinks is a real bargain price. I am the one that determines what a bargain price is,...not the seller,...LOL.

Just wanted to give you a heads-up my next adventure in FSBO housing wonderland. One thing I need to find out soon is if he owes any money on the house which can create complications if he has no equity in the house. At this writing, I would like to assume he paid cash for the house since he was buying it for his own sister. I hope this is the case.

Talk to you later after I have toured the house for the first time. I may need to consult with you if I decide to make a low-ball offer.

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 9:59 AM

Nice job Roy- getting your name out there. So often, investors make themselves into secret agents. Where it might not be a good idea to flaunt wealth, it is awesome idea to get the message out there that you are the one that can get deals done.

The person that called you, was he a wholesaler/investor or just a brother. It sounds like also have the right idea about haggling.......I like having the seller name the price, if I can pick some of the terms. In this market, both carry heavily on finding a place.

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 10:26 AM

Ray N PA,

5 years ago, I had vacancy at a rental house and this man and his elderly sister showed up to check my house out. They determined my house (2/1) was too small for the sister, so they left never to be heard from again. Last Monday, I got a text from this man and he had to refresh my memory on how he got my number.

Just from the way he talks, I can tell he is not an investor or wholesaler which I can spot a mile away. He is just a brother who bought a house for his elderly sister since she did not have the means to do it so herself. 5 years ago, she was living in a mobile home out in the sticks and she wanted to move closer to town which is how she found my small 2/1 house 5 years ago.

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 10:38 AM

Before I ever look at or discuss a purchase with anyone, I find out everything I can. I look up the name. I look up to see if mortgages or judgments I see how long they've owned the property and if they have refinanced. I look up civil cases, mainly for divorces. I look up criminal records.

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 11:53 AM


In years past, I would look at 20 houses for sale and from that, I would make a 'short list' of 5 houses/sellers I may want to make an offer on. Doing background research is very important but until I have a truly motivated seller, doing background research can be a waste of time.

I will meet the seller in about an hour and I hope to be able to determine if he is a 'truly motivated seller' and not someone who just wants me to reimburse him for a house that he over-paid for 2 years ago. I see that a lot!

I do know he has attempted to sell this house on Zillow and his Zillow listing is a 'FSBO listing' (he is too cheap to hire his own agent). I am going to check now to see if he still has this house listed on Zillow.

Paging: Ken (NY) (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 12:00 PM

The nice words are ..."house that he bought 2 years ago..."

It has probably gone up at least 50% more than what he paid for it. So if he paid $40,000 and mortgaged it at 100% LTV...then it is probably worth at least $80,000. Should be plenty of equity. --184.4.xx.xx

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 12:01 PM

Yep, he still has it listed on Zillow and he has dropped his asking price a little,...that is a sign of 'being motivated'.

If you want to see his Zillow Ad, google this address: 806 Tidmore Bend Road, Gadsden, AL 35901. Listed for $59,000 and it has been listed for 16 days too.


Paging: Ken (NY) (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 12:28 PM

The pics don't look bad, but it does say "pics are from 3 years ago." I wonder if sister had dogs or loser boyfriend who tore the place up?

Nice little 3/2. Around here, even trashed, that would fetch $70-$90K "as is" easily. $150K+ fixed up. --184.4.xx.xx

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 3:50 PM

Roy,the deals are made off market like this one. I do like Nicole said and i look up everything including back taxes owed.Good luck --74.77.xx.xx

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 4:15 PM


I have toured the house (it was trashed, entire living room ceiling is on the verge of collapsing) and I have had a talk with the owner that did not go very well. I accidentally pissed him off by being 'more than honest' with him in trying to explain to him why the house he paid $58,000 cash for 2 years ago, is not worth that today. It was not even worth $58K two years ago and now (according only to Zillow estimates) it is worth $100 -$125K.

The seller here was bull-headed, stubborn as a mule, and he is also a naive idiot for believing 100% in the ARV that Zillow said his house would be worth,...assuming someone is willing to spend $30-40K in fixing all of the problems it has. Living room ceiling was just the tip of the iceberg. What I said that irritated him was: Zillow is the worst place in the world in getting ARVs/estimates of what any house will be worth in the future. That pretty much ended our conversation.

The seller here will take $50K cash today for the house and not a penny less. The seller kept pressing me for my best cash offer and I would not tell him anything since my highest low ball offer would only have pissed him off even more than my comment about Zillow's computer algorithms that spit out bogus market values and estimated rents also. There are people who actually believe this garbage about what Zillow says their house is worth!

No big deal here, it is just another house on my list of 20 houses. And this house will not make the short list either. I can't deal with a stubborn homeowner.

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 5:04 PM


I do the same research as Nicole but not on every house I look at. Whatever is #1 on my short list, that is where I begin to do research. And without a motivated seller, nothing else really matters much.

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 6:14 PM

Roy,you are not supposed to piss off sellers,you never know but he might call you again in 6 months --74.77.xx.xx

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 7:44 PM


I was just being honest with the man and it backfired on me. It has happened before. This seller lives in another city 250 miles from here and he does not know the market here like I do. I have other houses in this same C neighborhood and trashed houses like his sell for $30-$40K. After $30K in repairs, his house may re-sell for $75K on a good day, but not for $100-$125K that Zillow has led him to believe.

Who knows? He may call me back in 6 months when he finally realizes that no one will pay $50,000 cash for a house that has been trashed by a family of squatters. His sister had already been moved to a nursing home 6 months earlier and with him being 250 miles away, a family of squatters moved in and lived there rent free for 6 months!! The stench of urine was in every room since there was no running water to flush a toilet with. And there were several 5 gallon buckets inside the house and you know what those were used for.

How much would you pay for this dump? The photos on Zillow are very misleading because they were taken 3 years ago. You should see what I saw (and smelled) today.

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 8:21 PM

I would know before seeing the house if there was a mortgage and how much is owed roughly,i would find out how much back taxes are owed and when it will be foreclosed,not a big deal in your town but in NY they can owe a lot fast.I would know if there were judgments etc.I let the seller tell me all there problems for 2 reasons,anything they tell me i can use to help structure a deal and psycholigically if i listen to them for 15 minutes they usually feel they owe you 15 minutes to talk and that is when i explain how i can structure the deal.I dont insult them by telling they dont know anything,i just nod and agree.I would have them meet me at the house so when we are discussing it they can smell the urine odor in the carpet but i dont walk around telling them they own a dump and the family member is a dirtbag,they can see what the house needs for work.I try to solve there problem but that doesnt mean i offer $30000 cash and ask what they think,most people have no idea what it will take for them close,filing fees etc so $30000 may mean nothing to them and a confused mind says no.I explain to them that it appears you have a mortgage against this property and ask the balance,motivated people will go get the statement and show it to me so i could say ok so you owe $15000 on this house but it looks like you are 2 payments behind,they will acknowledge yes then explain why in an attempt to not have me think they are a deadbeat.I tell them ok we can deal with that,you owe $7000 in taxes and a $1000 judgment is against the property,they will say they didnt realize the taxes were that far behind and they didnt realize the judgment was attached to the house.I tell them we can solve this problem,i will pay off the mortgage,pay the back taxes,pay off the judgment,i will have my attorney at my expense do all the paperwork so you dont have to hire an attorney,which allows me to maintain control,i will pay all the filing expenses to the county clerk so you dont have to deal with that and i tell them it looks like i can give you $2000,would something like that work for you? often they say yes that would be great,sometimes i am told i need $3000 so when i move i can get to wherever they are moving to often out of state.Unless you are dealing with a sophisticated buyer i dont talk in terms on $30000 because they simply dont know if that will solve there problem,but in my example i bought it for $25000 plus i have to pay my attorney anyway plus a little bit for filing fees.I dont argue with them about zillow or anything else,i spend the first few minutes looking for common ground so i can build rapport,if i see hunting gear we can become friends over that,if i see a yankee hat we can build rapport,if i see a tshirt for a political figure i like we are becoming friends,if i see anti hunting stuff or a red sox hat or political stuff for someone i dont like i simply keep my mouth shut,i am trying to buy a house not to convert them to my political views.I can spend a half hour or an hour just chatting with someone and walking through there crappy house.Most inexperienced people think negotiating begins when you actually start talking numbers but as far as i am concerned it begins by fact gathering the minute i take there first call,motivated people will thank you for asking prying questions,i went with my young cousin to help him buy a house creatively,i asked my usual questions and after we left he said to me i cant believe you didnt get punched in the mouth,those questions were rather personal but he was blown away that she was thankful for the questions i was asking.If you are tring to really help most can see that and are thankful --74.77.xx.xx

Paging: Ken (NY) (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 9:06 PM

Following. I need to get back to this when I have more time.

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Oct 7, 2022 10:50 PM


Your reply is difficult to read. Can you start using some paragraphs?

Obviously, your methodical approach to this situation is different than mine is. This seller here is stubborn and bullheaded and can't seem to get a grip on the reality of this house being worth less now than what he paid for it 2 years ago. |And when he realized I was not going to reimburse him, he got irritated and walked off. I can't deal with people like this.

Paging: Ken (NY) (by PG [SC]) Posted on: Oct 8, 2022 9:32 AM

KEN - The 10/7/22 8:21PM post is EXCELLENT - obtain the facts before hand - conduct a walk through - get the seller at ease - lighten the conversation while probing the seller to confirm the facts - provide a fix for his problem.

Years ago I worked with a guy who sold farm equipment - he had a strategy very similar to yours - smooooooooooth.

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Oct 8, 2022 11:19 AM


I prefer to get my facts straight from the horse's mouth which is usually the person who bought the house and whose name is on the Deed. I did that yesterday. Now, if that person has died, a courthouse records search is done to locate the next of kin.

Another thing, I only consider what a house is worth NOW (today) and not what it may be worth in the future (that is called speculating) and I do not deal in speculation. Speculation is really nothing more than a fool's game.

Paging: Ken (NY) (by wmh [NC]) Posted on: Oct 8, 2022 1:32 PM

Roy, you are normally a "Buy and Hold" landlord like us. We care what a house may eventually be worth, of course, but not *really*. Only what the cash flow will be after we fix it up. However, if getting it to a good rentable state will cost too much money, as it sounds with this house, forget it.

Getting too old to take on massive dump projects these days. Takes too long, too frustrating with supply chain issues, cost of materials, cost of labor...all for $1200 a month?

Don't need the money.

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Oct 8, 2022 2:14 PM


I could not have said that any better than you just did. Thank-you. All for $1,200/month? In your neighborhood yes, but in this C hood this house would rent for only $850/month.

To me, this house is worth $30K because it has Central Heat/Air, metal roof, vinyl siding, original hardwood floors and it is located in a good C hood. That is the good news. The bad news is something you see and smell as you walk through the front door.

Paging: Ken (NY) (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Oct 8, 2022 6:06 PM

We've lost our enthusiasm for turning someone's sh!te into shinola...for a few hundred dollars a month...

Paging: Ken (NY) (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Oct 8, 2022 6:10 PM

Ken is very smart

Paging: Ken (NY) (by RB [TN]) Posted on: Oct 8, 2022 7:46 PM

Gilligan !!!

Paging: Ken (NY) (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Oct 8, 2022 7:46 PM


In Class C hoods, a min. 2% rent to value ratio is what keeps my enthusiasm in check. To achieve this, I have to buy the house at rock bottom wholesale and not the owner's asking price which is usually over priced retail.

Subject: RE: Paging: Ken (NY)
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