HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Alex [GA]) Sep 21, 2022 12:23 AM|
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Robert J [CA]) Sep 21, 2022 2:25 AM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Tonia [RI]) Sep 21, 2022 4:56 AM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by FloridaNative [FL]) Sep 21, 2022 8:22 AM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by plenty [MO]) Sep 21, 2022 8:29 AM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Alex [GA]) Sep 21, 2022 9:21 AM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by LTD [AZ]) Sep 21, 2022 9:33 AM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by plenty [MO]) Sep 21, 2022 10:32 AM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by plenty [MO]) Sep 21, 2022 11:17 AM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Sep 21, 2022 11:27 AM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Alex [GA]) Sep 21, 2022 6:39 PM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Debbie [VA]) Sep 21, 2022 9:07 PM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Alex [GA]) Sep 21, 2022 10:34 PM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Barb [MO]) Sep 22, 2022 9:02 AM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Alex [GA]) Sep 22, 2022 11:44 AM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Wilma [PA]) Sep 22, 2022 1:19 PM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Alex [GA]) Sep 23, 2022 12:15 PM
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Alex [GA]) Posted on: Sep 21, 2022 12:23 AM
I have been renting a condominium for more than 20 years. I rented from day one the unit was bought and handed over copy of lease to property management company appointed by Association. The property management is a third party company and over the period of 20+ years, I have seen them changing every 2 to 3 years. Association takes decision in their annual review meetings and hires a new company when they are not happy with any property management company.
The current management decided to audit the number of units that are rented. They have put a cap on number of units that can be rented out. My unit was flagged as rented but without permit. Now, the association is stating that, I will be on wait list and once my turn comes up, I will be permitted to rent.
I see that they will soon impose me fine and some assessment fees if I continue to rent without permit.
I am not sure when the previous management company issued permit. But the current one tells me that my permit is not on their file.
I told them that 25 years back, our process was to hand over copy of lease and they made a note in their system that the unit is rental. I guess, over the years, the system may have been updated or the record was not updated by new management company that changed hands.
What recourse do I have to ensure I continue to rent and not have association take away my right to rent?
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Sep 21, 2022 2:25 AM
Here in my State of California, lenders of town-homes or condo's don't like to lend if there isn't a curtain number of owner occupied units. Something like 70%. So the HOA sets limits. Such as an owner can only rent out a unit 1 out of every 3 years. Something like that.
My first condo and my first auction was near to my home. I drove there several times and spoke the the HOA office wanted to read the Rules before I place a bid. I was refused access to the CC&Rs stand for the Declaration of Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions.
Then at the bidding I asked again. They said that after I won the bidding war, I was required to sign the CC&R without reading them of showing them to my attorney. I knew that if this went thru a standard escrow, the HOA wouldn't allow me to close on a purchase without signing them first. But since this was an auction. Once I handed the Bank auctioneer my casher's check, I'd be handed the ownership papers, to be recorded in hours.
I won the bid. Gave the money and got my ownership papers. I paid extra to have them drive to the County Recorder and record the change of ownership immediately.
There rules were an owner can only rent out a unit 2 out of every 5 years. I rented my unit out for 17 years, then I had to sue the HOA for harassment of my tenants. Interfering with my business.
The claimed my tenants made too much noise and the tenants on one side and below couldn't sleep. This wasn't true. I had sound proofed the unit and made it almost impossible to make noise someone could hear. I had it inspected and tested and proved it in court.
I won a ruling that I can always rent my unit out. So when I sold it, the buyer had this feature on the deed of ownership. Because of this I got a lot over the asking price. This was back in early 1980's. --47.156.xx.xx
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Tonia [RI]) Posted on: Sep 21, 2022 4:56 AM
Yes, hoa is doing that to my condo as well. I plan to sell it when lease is up in March 2023. I have had issues with HOA and they are very strict with regulations in general. --71.117.xxx.xx
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by FloridaNative [FL]) Posted on: Sep 21, 2022 8:22 AM
Yes, mortgage co's do check the percentage of rentals in the community before issuing a mortgage in order to determine if te condo is warrantable or not. A warrantable condo can be financed with a conventional loan. A non-warrantable condo can't be financed with a conventional loan and very few lenders will mess with a non-warrantable condo. One of the factors, among other criteria, is that more than 50% of the units within the community have to be owner occupied A condo that is warrantable is much more valuable on the open market than one that isn't warrantable. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac won't buy mortgages that are issued to non-warrantable condos. There are several ways to limit rentals, but they all have to be approved by the condo owners in a vote.
OP, what is the percentage of rentals in the condo complex? Were the changes that the new PM co brought about in your rules and regulations? I don't see how they can change the rules if its not voted on by the membership and changing the rental methods is a big change IMO. Do you have a copy of your condo docs (By-Laws, Declaration of Condominium, Rules & Regs, Current years budget + last couple of years of audited condo assn financials and most importantly the minutes)? When did this rule get changed and was it approved by the condo members? The PM co can't just leap out with new rules. In your shoes, I would get all the current documentation first and investigate when the changes were voted upon by the condo community. It wouldn't surprise me if they just are trying to jam this new process onto the current owners without any vote. --73.205.xxx.xx
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Sep 21, 2022 8:29 AM
I serve on a condo board, I also own a condo and rent it out. Agree , find out the new information and prepare to be in compliance. Also try a lease purchase instead of a regular lease. Pros and cons for that method also. --172.56.xx.xxx
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Alex [GA]) Posted on: Sep 21, 2022 9:21 AM
Thanks everyone. Robert, it looks like you have been renting for a while.
The Property Management company is acting on behalf of Condo Association. The decision to audit and limit was taken in board meetings. The clauses are in rules and regulations of association.
However, my point is different. I have been renting all along but they are now asking me to have a Permit. Also, the Permit process is first-come-first-served with a cap on number of permits. I can say that, I was the first one to rent out and should have been given a Permit. But it appears that the PM company does not want to recognize it as they have lost my documents submitted 20+ years ago. --99.98.xxx.xxx
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by LTD [AZ]) Posted on: Sep 21, 2022 9:33 AM
I would get a real estate attorney and start with a formal letter stating your facts. The fact that they have not enforced the CCR in 25 years is in your favor and should create a non-enforceable action. But I'm not knowledgable in that.
Are there any other long time owners or even tenants who can verify your rental? It doesn't need to be from the start. Just enough to bolster your claim. Get several if possible.
Our HOA is ok, but I'll never buy another HOA property. --47.216.xxx.xxx
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Sep 21, 2022 10:32 AM
So get the permit. Pretty Simple. Give up the 20year history. --172.56.xx.x
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Sep 21, 2022 11:17 AM
Before I did anything with a lawyer I would contact the board president and talk about the situation. --172.56.xx.xx
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Sep 21, 2022 11:27 AM
Depending on your state, HOAs typically given the full authority of local government to regulate operations.
As such those rules and regulations along with financial disclosures should be reviewed in detail.
perhaps you could request a waiver based on the length you have had the place as a rental. The doctrine you could use is that a rule that is never enforced that is suddenly strictly enforced, may be viewed as non-enforceable. An attorney would be my stop after meeting with the HOA board. --24.101.xxx.xxx
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Alex [GA]) Posted on: Sep 21, 2022 6:39 PM
Yes, it is a non-enforceable action as they never approached me to get a Permit. A few years back, they flagged my unit as 'Rental but not through Permit process'. That shows negligence on their part. They should have approached me to get a Permit the day they found out but never did.
My neighbor in adjacent Condo knows from day one that I have been renting for 20+ years.
I have list of tenants for all those 20+ years, as I do have their leases and phone numbers.
Getting a Permit is NOT easy. There is a wait list and it could take few years before my turn comes, as I will have a fresh start.
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Debbie [VA]) Posted on: Sep 21, 2022 9:07 PM
You need to read your bylaws. If original bylaws did not limit rentals the board can't change this by making it a rule and regulations. Bylaws must be voted on and passed by the members and often with 75% majority, but check your requirements. --67.211.xx.xxx
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Alex [GA]) Posted on: Sep 21, 2022 10:34 PM
Debbie [VA] Thank you for answer. Yes, the Association had a meeting, took a decision and amended the bye-laws. The Property Management is just operating on behalf of Association. --99.98.xxx.xxx
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Sep 22, 2022 9:02 AM
Alex, it seems to me that you need to start with a letter to the PM and the COA Board that reminds them that youíve been renting out this unit since the building received the certificate of occupancy, without a break in having anyone but a tenant in there. As a result, your renting the unit to tenants pre-dates the issuance of permits by the COA to allow a unit to be rented. Therefore, you require that they grandfather your unit as a rental until such a time as a permit is available.
Be able to provide a timeline of all the leases youíve used, be able to provide verification of the fact it has ALWAYS been a rental.
If the board and Pm fail to act the way you want, hire an attorney to represent you. It might be worth hiring the attorney to write the letter Iím describing.
Then, make sure you join the COA board and stay active. --149.76.xxx.xx
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Alex [GA]) Posted on: Sep 22, 2022 11:44 AM
Thanks Barb [MO], a good point. --99.98.xxx.xxx
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Wilma [PA]) Posted on: Sep 22, 2022 1:19 PM
You have gotten lots of good advice here. Probably most important is to have and know the by-laws and covenants. I have a sfh in a HOA neighborhood that I have rented out for 24 years. I always quietly attend the annual meeting.
About 10 years ago, the HOA president told me that I wasn't supposed to be renting out the place, according to the by-laws ( a newcomer to the HOA told him that). I pulled out my carefully kept up to date copy and found that nothing had changed since day one of the HOA, and it specifically acknowledges houses held as rentals being subject to all by-laws.
He at least had the graciousness to acknowledge that I was right, and the newbie wrong.
So add "keep up to date with any changes" to the advice here --98.115.xxx.xxx
HOA-Rental Limits/Permit (by Alex [GA]) Posted on: Sep 23, 2022 12:15 PM
Thanks Wilma and everyone here. --99.98.xxx.xxx