What does your lease say?
Click here for Top Ten Discussions. CLICK HERE for Q & A Homepage
Receive Free Rental Owner Updates Email:  
MrLandlord Q & A
     
     
What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Aug 31, 2022 5:29 PM
       What does your lease say? (by plenty [MO]) Aug 31, 2022 5:34 PM
       What does your lease say? (by Homer [TX]) Aug 31, 2022 5:35 PM
       What does your lease say? (by Sisco [MO]) Aug 31, 2022 5:55 PM
       What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Aug 31, 2022 5:59 PM
       What does your lease say? (by Dave [MO]) Aug 31, 2022 6:05 PM
       What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Aug 31, 2022 6:57 PM
       What does your lease say? (by Dave [MO]) Aug 31, 2022 8:01 PM
       What does your lease say? (by Jason [VA]) Aug 31, 2022 8:09 PM
       What does your lease say? (by WMH [NC]) Aug 31, 2022 8:20 PM
       What does your lease say? (by WMH [NC]) Aug 31, 2022 8:22 PM
       What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Aug 31, 2022 8:33 PM
       What does your lease say? (by 6x6 [TN]) Aug 31, 2022 8:56 PM
       What does your lease say? (by 6x6 [TN]) Aug 31, 2022 9:00 PM
       What does your lease say? (by Robert J [CA]) Aug 31, 2022 9:11 PM
       What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Aug 31, 2022 9:19 PM
       What does your lease say? (by 6x6 [TN]) Aug 31, 2022 9:38 PM
       What does your lease say? (by 6x6 [TN]) Aug 31, 2022 9:42 PM
       What does your lease say? (by Ken [NY]) Aug 31, 2022 10:03 PM
       What does your lease say? (by RB [TN]) Aug 31, 2022 10:24 PM
       What does your lease say? (by Marcia [WI]) Aug 31, 2022 11:29 PM
       What does your lease say? (by Nicole [PA]) Sep 1, 2022 12:16 AM
       What does your lease say? (by DJ [VA]) Sep 1, 2022 1:02 AM
       What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Sep 1, 2022 6:56 AM
       What does your lease say? (by Ken [NY]) Sep 1, 2022 7:48 AM
       What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Sep 1, 2022 8:21 AM
       What does your lease say? (by S i d [MO]) Sep 1, 2022 8:28 AM
       What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Sep 1, 2022 8:32 AM
       What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Sep 1, 2022 8:54 AM
       What does your lease say? (by tryan [MA]) Sep 1, 2022 9:23 AM
       What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Sep 1, 2022 10:16 AM
       What does your lease say? (by Sisco [MO]) Sep 1, 2022 12:00 PM
       What does your lease say? (by Dave [MO]) Sep 1, 2022 3:35 PM
       What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Sep 1, 2022 5:43 PM
       What does your lease say? (by LordZen [MA]) Sep 2, 2022 12:39 AM
       What does your lease say? (by tryan [MA]) Sep 2, 2022 9:28 AM

Click here to reply to this discussion.
Click Here to send this discussion to a friend

What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 5:29 PM
Message:

If something catastrophic (ie. flood from heavy rains) happens at one of your rental houses and this catastrophe makes the house unlivable until major repairs can be done,...what does your lease say in regards to what responsibility you have towards your tenants? Does your lease obligate you to pay for motel lodging until repairs can be made,..which could be months?

I am dealing with a catastrophe now and it is not a flood either.

--71.207.xxx.x




What does your lease say? (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 5:34 PM
Message:

Then what matters most is what your lease says. Mine says if I can't make it habitable in five days I will return the security deposit if full and we part ways. I do not pay for temporary housing. They should have renter's insurance. If not I'm sorry, to bad. Goodbye. We are done. The end. --172.56.xx.xx




What does your lease say? (by Homer [TX]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 5:35 PM
Message:

Canít tell you right now what my lease says, but I require in writing that the tenant buy and maintain renters insurance. I explain at lease signing that should something happen to the house and was unliveable, it would be up to their renters insurance to put them up. --47.32.xxx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 5:55 PM
Message:

Here is what my lease states: Should the building become uninhabitable, Management is not responsible to supply motel/hotel, alternate housing, or alternate storage. --149.76.xxx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 5:59 PM
Message:

Thanks Homer and Plenty -

I will be making some changes to my lease, like adding a renters insurance clause which none of my tenants would ever buy anyway. Now, if your tenants can't afford to move out on such a short notice and wants to try to continue living in the house, what do you do then? --71.207.xxx.x




What does your lease say? (by Dave [MO]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 6:05 PM
Message:

Roy,

1. That if said premises are rendered untenable, by physical damage by any cause, without the fault or neglect of either party, and it cannot be repaired within sixty(60) days, this lease shall be void from the date of such untenantability, and sad possession shall immediately be surrendered and the rent shall be a portion and paid to that date or refunded as the case may be.

2. That if said property shall be damaged, or partly rendered untentable for residential purposes, the lessor shall, as rapidly as possible, restore it to a condition similar to and as equally as good as the day preceding such partial destruction; provided, that if such damage or destruction be through fault or negligence of said lessee and such loss is not protected by the Lessorís insurance, then said lessee is to restore the property as above mentioned at their own expense. Lessor is not responsible for any theft or damage to Lesseeís property. Lessees must obtain renterís insurance at their own accord. --173.47.xxx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 6:57 PM
Message:

Dave,

What do you do when your tenants can't afford to move out on a short 24-48 hour notice? Do you allow them to live there at their own risk or do you evict them which could take another 30 days!

Now, if my city's building dept. found out about what happened at one of my houses yesterday, they would condemn the house and immediately evict the tenants. My city's bldg. dept. does not need a court order to evict someone during a condemnation. --71.207.xxx.x




What does your lease say? (by Dave [MO]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 8:01 PM
Message:

Roy, I did have a house struck by lightning that caused a major fire and the tenant was able to get housing assistance from Red Cross. Red Cross put the tenant and her family in a hotel. When Joplin got hit in the 2011 by a tornado tenants that had insurance immediately received a check for all their belongings and a check for housing.

If I was in a tight spot with a tenant unable to move in 24-48 hour time period I would find a cheap hotel($250) and offer to pay a weeks worth of stay and give them an accounting of their deposit and have them sign a document agreeing they are vacating the property because of uninhabitable condition.

If they didnít take that offer I would use the courts and evict them.

Would you mind sharing what happened? We all need to learn from this. --162.249.xx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 8:09 PM
Message:

This is governed by state law. In VA, I'd just have to give them a 14 day notice that the lease is being terminated after a fire or damage has occured that renders the place uninhabitable. --172.58.xxx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 8:20 PM
Message:

Here's one for temporary issues:

Tenant's Insurance; Release and Indemnity Provisions: The Tenant shall be solely responsible for insuring any of their personal property located or stored upon the Premises upon the risks of damage, destruction, or loss resulting from theft, fire, storm and all other hazards and casualties. Regardless of whether the Tenant secures such insurance, the Landlord and their agents shall not be liable for any damage to, or destruction or loss of, any of the Tenant's personal property located or stored upon the Premises; or hotel rooms or other reimbursements in case of temporary habitability issues, regardless of the cause or causes of such damage, destruction, or loss. Tenant agrees to release and indemnify the Landlord and their agents from and against liability for injury to the person of the Tenant or to any members of their household or guests resulting from any cause whatsoever except only such personal injury caused by the negligent or intentional acts of the Landlord or their agents.

--50.82.xxx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 8:22 PM
Message:

There's also this:

Eminent Domain and Casualties: The Landlord shall have the option to terminate this lease if the Premises, or any part thereof, are condemned or sold in lieu of condemnation, or damaged by fire or other casualty, such as hurricane or flood.

--50.82.xxx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 8:33 PM
Message:

Dave,

Back in 2011, I remember talking to you at the convention about the Joplin tornado which is why I am glad to hear from you.

Last night, a tenant called and said the floor inside the master bedroom had collapsed. This morning my handyman and I went there and yes, the hardwood floor and everything underneath it had dropped down about 8 inches. We managed to get the tenant bed and furniture out of that room and told her the floor was on the verge on collapsing further down into the crawlspace just another 12 inches downward. Then my handyman went inside the crawlspace and noticed several floor joists (3'x 10"x 12 feet long) had broken causing this collapse. Why these original floor joist broke is still a mystery.

This is an old 2/1 800 sq. ft. house probably built back in the 1930's judging from the 'thickness' of the original floor joists. All other floor joists in nearby adjacent rooms seem to be okay but there is no guarantee here. The solution here is to remove the bedroom hardwood floor, sub-floor and all of the floor joists in that bedroom. Cost to rebuild the floor in just this one room could be $3,000.00. My tenant is still in the house and this weekend I am going to make an attempt to move her to one of my other houses that has become vacant. If I did not have another house to move her to, I am not sure what would happen next. --71.207.xxx.x




What does your lease say? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 8:56 PM
Message:

Is this a SFH?

3" floor joist?

Somethings not right? --73.113.xxx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 9:00 PM
Message:

Is there any rot or bug damage?

If they really are 3" joist, my guess is, if not damaged by rot or bugs, that they were not big enough to support much weight. --73.113.xxx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 9:11 PM
Message:

1. A landlord is not allowed to insure tenants possessions under insurance law, in California and many other States. Otherwise if a tenant had valuables, a landlord would burn their rental to the ground and collect on the tenants losses.

My lease calls for tenants to obtain renters insurance as a part of the lease. They agree to this.

2. If a tenant can not stay in the rental, due to a catastrophe, flood, fire, water damage and/or earthquake, then the tenant WILL NOT BE CHARGED FOR THEIR PRORATED PORTION OF THE RENT DURING THE TIME THEY CAN NOT LIVE THERE.

I had a fire caused by a tenant. their rent was $1200 per month, or $40 per day. So when they were faced with not having a place to stay, I contacted a local motel, 3 blocks away, and secured lodging for all of my tenants, costing me $50 per day. My tenant spit in my face and rented a room at a 4 Star Hotel for $129 per night. I refused to pay that and agreed to deduct $40 per day from their rent.

My tenant took me to small claims court. I would not allow a commissioner or Judge Pro Tem to hear the case, only a real judge. I showed case law and My City's regulations that the tenant finds their own lodging and they do not the landlord rent for that period. --47.156.xx.xx




What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 9:19 PM
Message:

Yes, this is SFH built on a concrete block foundation. These floor joist are 3 inches thick, 10 inches wide x 12 feet long. They are placed 24 inches on center. Those are the true dimensions of this old style building lumber.

Last January, at another property, a 50 year old 6 inch thick concrete front porch slab (with rusted re-bar inside) collapsed and fell down into the 3 ft. crawlspace below. What happen yesterday is not my first rodeo with old things collapsing on me. Sometimes I wonder what will happen next?

--71.207.xxx.x




What does your lease say? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 9:38 PM
Message:

My bad, for some reason I was thinking 3 inches wide. There may be bug damage. --73.113.xxx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 9:42 PM
Message:

Were any of the joist compromised by someone cutting out sections for plumbing or wiring over the years? --73.113.xxx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 10:03 PM
Message:

Roy,if that happened to me in the house i live in we would be out of that house until someone determined the cause and if it was safe or not,what is the matter with this tenant? For safety reasons i would call the building inspector on myself and have it condemned to get her removed immediately,i would deal with getting permits etc to have her removed immediately.Can you collect on your insurance policy? --74.77.xx.xx




What does your lease say? (by RB [TN]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 10:24 PM
Message:

Alabama sinkhole. --24.183.xxx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by Marcia [WI]) Posted on: Aug 31, 2022 11:29 PM
Message:

I am no building expert by any stretch of the imagination, but aren't the joists supposed to be 16" on center? Or has the building code changed since the house was built? Just curious. --104.231.xxx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Sep 1, 2022 12:16 AM
Message:

I would put her out immediately. There is no way I'd accept liability for something else going wrong, even if you don't think it will. Get her stuff within a very limited specific time frame and go. She should have renter's insurance. If she doesn't that's on her.

6 x 6 - I don't believe my dad ever did any work in Alabama !! ...Were any of the joist compromised by someone cutting out sections for plumbing or wiring over the years?... sometimes my dad put in a floor jack or sat a 4 x 4 there. Unless it was in his way. --98.237.xxx.xx




What does your lease say? (by DJ [VA]) Posted on: Sep 1, 2022 1:02 AM
Message:

I agree with get them out now - even if you need to do as Ken said.

Find out what went wrong (termites, notched joists, ?) and check the entire structure to see where else the problem may be. --68.229.xxx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Sep 1, 2022 6:56 AM
Message:

Marcia,

When this house was built back in the 30's or 40's, building codes did not exist back then. Building codes are more of a modern invention that have evolved over time. Even today, building codes are not engraved in stone,...they can change from one area to the next.

Nicole- 99% of the tenants here will not buy renters insurance for 1 reason,...they do not possess anything worth insuring. Plus, insurance is for people who are concerned about what may or could happen in the future. Most of my tenants are only concerned about what may happen in the present.

The cause of this collapse will be determined at a later date when a more thorough inspection can be done. I will report back then. --71.207.xxx.x




What does your lease say? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Sep 1, 2022 7:48 AM
Message:

Roy,definately give an update,i cant recall ever hearing of this happening before --74.77.xx.xx




What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Sep 1, 2022 8:21 AM
Message:

Ken,

Floor joists here in high humidity / moisture environments can rot out over time (decades). Sometimes even termites can eat enough wood to cause a floor joist failure. Yesterday with just a general inspection, my handyman noticed the floor joist failure began at the Rim Joist which is the 2x10 piece of lumber that is mounted on top of the concrete block foundation wall. Right where the rat seal is. That rim joist/rat seal will need to be cut out and replaced. Also, the crawlspace and floor joists at this house is dry as a bone and there is not any evidence of moisture related problems. Could be a termite thing? --71.207.xxx.x




What does your lease say? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Sep 1, 2022 8:28 AM
Message:

My lease says that if the building becomes unlivable and we cannot repair to habitable standard within 15 days, the lease terminates: they go their way, I go mine. No fuss, no foul.

It also states that we are never, under any circumstances (and 'Any' means ANY) liable to provide alternative housing arrangements.

So no...there would be no hotel in this or any (and I mean ANY) other situation, however caused.

I agree with others that this floor collapse is weird. Regardless of code/no code, there's no way it "just happened". There were cracking noises that were ignored. Someone was jumping up and down on the bed. SOMETHING happened, and it wasn't that the tenant's were just peacefully walking across what appeared to be a solid floor and "POOF", it fell into the crawl space. Nope. Not buying that story for a minute. Wood makes NOISE when it starts to weaken and crack under stress. Boards do not "just snap" with zero warning whatsoever.

To be clear: I'm not saying the tenants caused this. But they sure as heck noticed something was "off" and said nothing.

Time to put on your detective shoes.

--184.4.xx.xx




What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Sep 1, 2022 8:32 AM
Message:

Correction - failure started where the floor joists were attached to the 2x10 Rim Joist, which sits on top of the Sill Plate which is sometimes referred to as a 'rat sill'. --71.207.xxx.x




What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Sep 1, 2022 8:54 AM
Message:

Sid,

I completely agree with you. Have you ever walked inside a rental house and noticed a 75 gallon aquarium on the floor? How about a 1 ton floor safe that is used to store guns and cash in. These are heavy items that need reinforcement underneath them. And then you have the 500 lb. tenant that walks slowly around the house all day. The list is endless here. --71.207.xxx.x




What does your lease say? (by tryan [MA]) Posted on: Sep 1, 2022 9:23 AM
Message:

Had a fire gut a duplex in the hood. S8 leases on both units. Tenant had a Madonna candle set up that got away from her ... FD verified the candles torched the place.

S8 stopped payment on the uninhabitable units. Insurance kicked in to pay rent. Red Cross provided a stipend of cash for temporary housing and food directly to the tenants.

Nothing out of pocket for me. I fact I made 30k off the maxed out ins claim. --206.84.xx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Sep 1, 2022 10:16 AM
Message:

tryan,

My first and only mentor in this business who had 45 years of LLing experience in C & D hoods, told me that if you stay in this business long enough, you will eventually have some type of catastrophe to deal with. And fires are usually the worst of the worst. --71.207.xxx.x




What does your lease say? (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Sep 1, 2022 12:00 PM
Message:

Repairing the floor joists in a small room as you have described sounds like a one day job. Obviously they can't use that room, but need not move out of the house. --149.76.xxx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by Dave [MO]) Posted on: Sep 1, 2022 3:35 PM
Message:

Roy, I feel your pain. Currently I am working on the same type of project with joist and sub floor. Mine was caused by a previous Hvac company that ran the condensation line between the walls in the hallway and let it drip on the ground under the house. Tacking moisture from inside the house and displacing under the house. It's been Pandoras box. This house is a late 60's Ranch house.

--173.47.xxx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by Roy [AL]) Posted on: Sep 1, 2022 5:43 PM
Message:

Dave,

How many times have I seen where someone took a clothes dryer vent tube, cut a 4 inch hole in the floor and let it all that moisture from drying wet clothes vent into the crawl space. Talk about mold building up on a nearby floor joist. The amount of laziness and stupidity is simply amazing with some DIY people. --71.207.xxx.x




What does your lease say? (by LordZen [MA]) Posted on: Sep 2, 2022 12:39 AM
Message:

Very good thread, have to study this a little more and redact my leases :D, Thanks everyone for the input. --98.216.xx.xxx




What does your lease say? (by tryan [MA]) Posted on: Sep 2, 2022 9:28 AM
Message:

Roy,

The fires never bothered me ... no one got hurt and the house was rebuilt, modernized, and the price appreciated beyond the beyond after the work.

The hard ones were the deaths in the units. The rents not paid, an eviction is heartless and there is a stigma attached to the place that takes a couple years to shake. --206.84.xx.xxx



Click Here to send this discussion to a friend
Report discussion to Webmaster


Reply:
Subject: RE: What does your lease say?
Your Name:
Your State:

Message:
What does your lease say?
Would you like to be notified via email when somebody replies to this thread?
If so, you must include your valid email address here. Do not add your address more than once per thread/subject. By entering your email address here, you agree to receive notification from Mrlandlord.com every time anyone replies to "this" thread. You will receive response notifications for up to one week following the original post. Your email address will not be visible to readers.
Email Address: