So today, we are having a septic system replaced at one place. DH has headed over there in case any last minute decisions need to be made. 99% of it is done by the permit, but there could be some more esoteric details where they need a decision. So note: 99% of the job has been hired out. Still someone has to be there.

And the initial disconnect and final reconnect to the plumbing: DH will do that, as we don't have a plumber who will stand around and wait for their moment. At best we could schedule them for tomorrow - and that's a hope not a given - but then the tenants would be without water for at least 24 probably 48 hours. It's a duplex, with pets: that would leave 4 people and some animals scrambling which we can eliminate by him doing it. Another note: had we already HAD a plumber scheduled, we would have had to change it anyway because the septic guy changed his date. Chain reaction of rescheduling would need to occur.

So: DIY.

And then we are having an HVAC and some flooring delivered to another place. 2 different companies delivering at any time today (one says between 6am and 8pm, the other promises a more reasonable 10-2pm window.) They will call "30 minutes prior." They won't...we've installed a lockbox and will direct them to drop it off inside the unit - we did pay the extra for that service. But there is risk: 1) Damage we won't be there to see and 2) they might refuse to deliver without a signature. So I will have to head up there when they call.

DIY.

Now, I can see Jeffrey's point that if we had a person on call that at least one of the tasks (the deliveries) could be managed by anyone. But since that type of task happens once in a blue moon, it's hard to justify...

WMH,

5 years ago, I had the septic system (new field lines) at my primary residence replaced and from experience there will be some esoteric details where a person of authority will need to be present to make. FYI: In 2017, it cost me $3,000.00 to have three new 75 ft. field lines installed. What does it cost now?

The county permit calls for the old tank to be crushed and removed and replaced. Because the location (very small lot) we are going with a fiberglass tank because they couldn't get the truck in to place a new concrete block on.

And: luckily not our mistake, but they placed the tank, got half-way through covering it up and realized it was not deep enough. DH had questioned that but they're the experts right so...now he is waiting there for them to dig it up and re-bury it so he can re-connect it.

I own a construction company. To become successful and rich, one must have several job going at the same time. If you only have employee's (worker bee's) on site by themselves with no supervisor, costly mistakes will be made.

Then on the other hand having a supervisor on site is a costly expense. So the job has to be big enough to afford that expense.

So I have to carefully schedule each location covering the "work to be done", "employee's", "person in charge" and or place a "Supervisor" on site.

With rentals, I can have the wife, child or general employee meet a tradesman at the property to let them in, or have a lockbox.

With the advent of the modern smart phone, I can have a picture of a problem or issue sent to me and respond how I want things handled.

I totally get it - sometimes it is really more efficient and just makes sense to do things like that.

Especially a small operator like me - I don't have any hired help who is available to respond when they feel like making the delivery.

And you don't want your residents inconvenienced more than needed. Sounds like you are doing a great job.

WMH,

Just to add some giggles: besides burying the tank too high to start with, the septic guy managed to cut the cable to the neighbor's internet and then could not finish the drain line install today. They will be back "tomorrow or Monday." So DH is doing a temp hook-up to the tank...

Lowes didn't have a crucial part (a rubber collar) so on to Home Depot...

In between, HVAC delivery guy delivered here to our house instead of rental. Oh well.

I confess this is a bit of a weak area in my business... having someone do the "little this 'n that" type jobs. I'm in a point where managing 45 units doesn't stress me out too much, but neigher does it throw off a tremendous sum of money I could use to pay someone to handle tasks on an ad hoc basis.

Example:

Monday - need someone to call app references for two people 0.5 hours

Tuesday - nothing to do

Wednesday - need to put a lockbox on the front door of a vacancy and take a 3 minute walk through video; prep a work order - 1.5 hours

Thursdays - pick up filters and drop off by two rentals. 1 hour

Friday - nothing to do

Saturday - nothing to do

Sunday - create an Early Termination Fee document and email to tenant. 0.25 hours

Those jobs don't all show up at the start of the week; they show up anywhere from 1 to 48 hours in advance. Hard to find someone to handle those tasks, because they require flexibility, driving, skill with software, and interpersonal skill of "interviewing" a reference.

I need someone who is a jack-of-all trades with tiddly-wink projects, willing to work between 0 and 4 hours per week... *sigh... just DIY!

Bang your head for me too, Jeffrey, or tell me what you'd do if you were me. I'm all ears!

I will say that working ON our business this year has paid off for me. After shocking tax issues last year from converting an IRA (yes we expected the taxes, we didn't realize we'd be paying 4x the premiums for MEDICARE as a result...) I spent time really examining our hard figures and building a budget, just like a real person should, but for us and both LLCs.

And as I started trying to teach my DS the system, I realized quickly that too much was still in my head.

Let me ask you a serious question S i d. How would you handle those same tasks you refer to if unexpectedly you had health issues that did not allow you to perform those tasks.

Same question for WMH, if health issues did not allow your DH to be available to handle the tasks you began this discussion with, how would those tasks be handled.

Same question for Roy or anyone else who does a lot of the work themselves.

With that said, I do recognize that all the names I just mentioned have taken tremendous steps in the direction of automating your business and moving in the direction of working ON your business and not just in your business. And I greatly applaud you.

You have actually done far more in working on your business than most landlords. And I do understand there are "rare" circumstances that may require you to personally be on top of a particular situation (as they do for me). However, that should be the EXCEPTION to the rule. My concern for you, my friends, is that it appears from the examples you highlight in these recent discussions is that your DIY actions are more the rule, instead of the exception.

As you know, I'm all for landlords doing what works best for them. I'm just here to encourage you when I think a little more modifying of your business practices will prove to be even more valuable to you. I also want you to be in a position that if something unexpected happens, you won't have to become a motivated seller and your "only" option is to sell quick out of desperation because your business can not continue to operate without your day to day involvement.

It's been great watching you (and your mindset) evolve and seeing the results of big improvements in your business operation over the years. Again, I applaud you and encourage you to continue to make the most of the assists God has given you.

My name is Jeffrey and I'm your friend:)

Jeffrey, I hear you about illness and age and health issues. If DH was not here, I would be hiring contractors and just waiting for them to get around to things.

And when they installed the septic tank too high or cut the cable or don't finish the job, but decide to leave for the day anyway, I'd be shrugging my shoulders at the tenants, saying "Nothing I can do." Which would be true.

WMH,

It may be a good idea to consider hiring a replacement for your hubby now and not wait for a major crisis to happen first. Your DH could even train that person too! This leads me into my answer to Jeffrey's question.

For the last 5 years, I have been looking to hire a person who I could personally train to run my business in case I got sick and could not do it myself for an extended period time. One reason I have not found this person is because I do not know the first place to look. All I need is a person who mature, is responsible with money, someone I can trust and most important someone who has a sincere desire to learn my business.

Can anyone here tell how to find this person? A young 25-30 year old apprentice would be ideal but I can train anyone if they have the right attitude.

Same for me with the little DIY. I take care of the communications, prepping tax data to give to tax man, fill the vacancies, which I'll mention again. Thank you ALL for the helpful new ways to screen today. No more talking endlessly over the phone just all calls go to voicemail. And because many of us are now doing it, it's more acceptable and expected by the qualified tenants we seek.

Now that hubby is retired it has been helpful. He does contractor stuff to get him out of my hair and to keep him from getting bored if we're not motorcycling. But we've found a couple decent contractors over the past few years and have been able to do things he can't (fear of heights) or doesn't want to do.

If hubby could no longer do these things, I'd hire out. If I could no longer do these things...good question Jeffrey. My nieces and nephews are successful in their own careers. I had the thought to bring along someone who I could train and shadow both of us, who would do the work or help do the work who would like to buy a place, two or all in the future. Someone on here, can't remember who, is doing just that.

I don't think you missed Jeffrey's points as you caught onto the fact?

A small suggestion…

Resist the DIY LL instant reaction to say “I’ll do it”.

When I finally took the tools out of my van it was a big adjustment to delegate the task.

If the contractor makes a mistake it’s up to him to get it fixed.

I will agree we are having trouble with delivery drivers not calling ahead and just dropping materials in the driveway.

When I was 38, now 68, I ended up in the hospital with a brain bleed; was there 10 days. Luckily it happened after the first of a month and I was home recuperating before the first of the next month as he had no idea how to deposit the checks. We had less tenants so he at least knew them all.

Ken,

To answer your question, yes, I do have someone on my crew that would like to swap places with me, however, this person would require a lot of training. On my last major rehab, a young man (Ricky) who has been painting houses for me for 2 years now, asked me if he could be put in charge of all of the DIY jobs that "I do"? I told him that if I could find a person that was capable of doing all of the jobs that I do (hence the 20%), I would consider that a 'dream come true'.

You may be asking why I have not started training this person yet. First of all, Ricky is disorganized, both in his personal and professional life. He is honest and I think I could trust this person with my money and because he is young (25ish), he would be trainable and not set in his ways like my 79 year handyman is. But Ricky would need a tremendous amount of training here.

In a few days, Ricky will be coming to paint the inside of my primary residence. I will then have some time to talk to him about just how serious he was in asking me to 'put him charge of all my 20% DIY tasks'.

What do you think? Should I give Ricky an opportunity to come inside my very private business world?

Ken,

A classic DIY task is about to happen at 9.00a.m. today. I wish I had someone else to handle this for me.

I have had an Ad on Zillow since Tuesday advertising my only vacancy. I told everyone who responded that my first open house will be Friday morning at 9.00a.m. There could be 15-20 prospects showing up today but then again, may only be 1 or 2 show up,...who knows? At my open houses, prospect questions are answered and paper applications are passed out to whomever wants one. My open houses are for 1 hour only.

Since I have other more important things to do today, I sure wish I had someone who could go and handle this open house for me. This person would have to be trained though in how to 'deal with strangers' and some of these strangers (rental prospects) will have a ton of cash on them and expect to rent the house right then. Again, I would need to train a person on how to deal with rental prospects at an open house and not piss anybody off by saying "I would not rent to you because you have too many disgusting tattoos or I just don't like the way you look'. That is a big NO-NO.

Roy, I considered using a real estate agent last year for a vacancy out of frustration. In nearby NJ, the tenant pays the fee while here in PA, the LL pays. The cost was greater than I wanted to bear so I altered my process to cut down on the time.

ROY, yes give Ricky a chance. Show him how to organize the tasks you want him to do.

Dee Ann,

I still answer my phone because I want as many people as possible to show up for my open house. It is a numbers game. I use to screen people on the phone but that got to time consuming and now I just say 'hello' and you are invited to my open house on Friday at xxx. Today, 12 people showed up and I gave out 10 applications. Probably 2-3 of those apps will be returned to me. Hopefully out of those apps, there 'could be' a tenant and if not, I will schedule another open house.

I did have a really nice conversation this morning with a husband/wife who had a 10 year old child. Then they popped my bubble by telling me they had 4 cats, which I do not allow.

I am still wrapping my head around how little the two of you have to pay to complete a septic system.

It used to be $1 a gal for the septic tank, that has shot up to about $2.25 per gal. A 2 BR here would require a 1,500 gal tank and if it were a duplex double that so you can't even buy part of the materials on what you are paying for everything.

Ray, the entire area is septic - there are almost NO sewer services anywhere around here. So the permit process can't take a year! In fact a call for a repair inspection is expedited and you can get the permit within days. And they are very forgiving: they just want the sewer contained, they try hard to not to fail you for simple stuff.

We are required to have minimum 1000 gallon tanks for 2-3 bedrooms. I think it used to be 500. Or now it's 1500 and used to 1000, I forget.

Cost of drain field depends on size and complexity. Ours are always simple and small, as all our properties are very simple and small!

Ken said, 'then you don't have to talk to them.'

Why is talking to strangers on the phone such a taboo subject here??? My phone number is listed in the Zillow Ad for one reason,..because it does not bother me in the least to talk to strangers about a house I have for rent.

Ken,

On Zillow, most of the responses are e-mailed to me via the Zillow network. I return those e-mails with the open house date and time. The few that do call me, have the typical questions that I don't mind answering on the phone,...like do you allow Pit Bulls? Or can I pay you cash right now and move in this afternoon?

ROY: I'm not afraid to talk to anyone on the phone; my dad used to kick me off the phone when I was younger as I'm really a chatty Kathy. But after trying the suggestion as a time saver, I couldn't believed how well it worked. BTW, our vacancies were in winter, when the worst of the worst calls come in. One day, during this time I got desperate and began answering the phone. BIG mistake. After answering 3 calls, I went back to all calls go to voicemail.

Dee Ann,

Roy, it's not all about saving time. I have plenty of time to talk ad nauseum to idiots ... but do I want to? I'd rather hang here and harass you. Or listen to comedians on YouTube or delve deep into opposing political views on YouTube...

'I'd rather hang here and harass you'.

WMH - you can harass me all you want to. Coming from you (and Jeffrey), I can appreciate it! Yesterday I spent maybe 5 minutes talking on the phone with people who called from my Zillow Ad. No big deal, so lets not make a mountain out of a mole hill here. Besides, I was raised in a small 3/1 house that had only one telephone in the kitchen and who ever was standing the closest to it, it was their job to answer it when it rang. That is where it all started,...LOL. Some old habits are tough to break.