Number of People
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Number of People (by plenty [MO]) Jun 26, 2022 5:47 PM
       Number of People (by WMH [NC]) Jun 26, 2022 6:03 PM
       Number of People (by Jim in O C [CA]) Jun 26, 2022 7:34 PM
       Number of People (by David [MI]) Jun 26, 2022 7:40 PM
       Number of People (by David [MI]) Jun 26, 2022 7:41 PM
       Number of People (by plenty [MO]) Jun 26, 2022 7:58 PM
       Number of People (by Robert J [CA]) Jun 26, 2022 8:33 PM
       Number of People (by 6x6 [TN]) Jun 26, 2022 8:34 PM
       Number of People (by plenty [MO]) Jun 26, 2022 8:39 PM
       Number of People (by Robert J [CA]) Jun 26, 2022 9:02 PM
       Number of People (by Mr T [VT]) Jun 27, 2022 5:56 AM
       Number of People (by WMH [NC]) Jun 27, 2022 6:50 AM
       Number of People (by WMH [NC]) Jun 27, 2022 6:50 AM
       Number of People (by Sisco [MO]) Jun 27, 2022 7:34 AM
       Number of People (by Vee [OH]) Jun 27, 2022 7:53 AM
       Number of People (by WMH [NC]) Jun 27, 2022 8:31 AM
       Number of People (by Wilma [PA]) Jun 27, 2022 9:24 AM
       Number of People (by David [MI]) Jun 27, 2022 9:24 AM
       Number of People (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Jun 27, 2022 10:01 AM
       Number of People (by David [MI]) Jun 27, 2022 10:15 AM
       Number of People (by John... [MI]) Jun 27, 2022 10:41 AM
       Number of People (by Hoosier [IN]) Jun 27, 2022 2:31 PM
       Number of People (by WMH [NC]) Jun 27, 2022 2:36 PM
       Number of People (by Ken [NY]) Jun 27, 2022 2:50 PM
       Number of People (by plenty [MO]) Jun 27, 2022 2:56 PM
       Number of People (by mike [CA]) Jun 27, 2022 3:12 PM
       Number of People (by GKARL [PA]) Jun 27, 2022 3:21 PM
       Number of People (by WMH [NC]) Jun 27, 2022 7:22 PM
       Number of People (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jun 28, 2022 9:40 AM
       Number of People (by John... [MI]) Jun 28, 2022 5:11 PM
       Number of People (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Jun 29, 2022 9:54 AM
       Number of People (by John... [MI]) Jun 29, 2022 12:36 PM
       Number of People (by LisaFL [FL]) Jun 30, 2022 11:40 PM
       Number of People (by Mr T [VT]) Jul 1, 2022 6:42 AM
       Number of People (by Mr T [VT]) Jul 1, 2022 6:42 AM
       Number of People (by Mr T [VT]) Jul 1, 2022 6:42 AM
       Number of People (by plenty [MO]) Jul 1, 2022 8:25 AM
       Number of People (by John... [MI]) Jul 1, 2022 8:57 AM
       Number of People (by bet [MA]) Jul 1, 2022 9:16 AM
       Number of People (by LisaFL [FL]) Jul 1, 2022 10:07 AM
       Number of People (by plenty [MO]) Jul 11, 2022 3:49 PM

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Number of People (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jun 26, 2022 5:47 PM
Message:

Can I limit occupancy by stating in the ad OC limited to four people. Even if house is 3 bedrooms? I understand that babies are not part of the count. --172.56.xx.xxx




Number of People (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jun 26, 2022 6:03 PM
Message:

I don't think you can unless the 3rd bedroom is not really a bedroom. Can you fix that? --50.82.xxx.xxx




Number of People (by Jim in O C [CA]) Posted on: Jun 26, 2022 7:34 PM
Message:

I discourage too many adults or near adults. One shower for 6 people going to work or school is too many plus the water heater is only 50 gallons. --99.23.xxx.x




Number of People (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jun 26, 2022 7:40 PM
Message:

I have found that credit score and requiring W2 income really cuts down on the large families. Right now I have one house with four people and one house with three people. All my other houses have two or one. --50.4.xxx.x




Number of People (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jun 26, 2022 7:41 PM
Message:

Jim in O C: "only 50 gallons" yikes, no wonder CA has a water problem. 40 gallons is the normal for 3 bedrooms around here. The HVAC company I use defaults to 40 gallons for emergency replacements. --50.4.xxx.x




Number of People (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jun 26, 2022 7:58 PM
Message:

the house has an OC permit for five, but I would like to only have four. So far no one has qualified, even those with three people. And even those with six people, so I just keep putting it out here. I Read another person's ad for a three bedroom and it stated MAX 4 person. SO I thought "um, wonder if i can do that?" --172.58.xx.xxx




Number of People (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Jun 26, 2022 8:33 PM
Message:

Children do count. It is 2 per bedroom PLUS 1 more per rental. SO a 3 bedroom will accommodate 7 people including children. --47.156.xx.xx




Number of People (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Jun 26, 2022 8:34 PM
Message:

following. Will be good to know --73.120.xx.xxx




Number of People (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jun 26, 2022 8:39 PM
Message:

Well Robert in my area the OC police measured one bedroom to be too small for two people and the whole house can only have five names on the OC permit. I understand babies don't necessarily need to be on OC. But what happened with five people is they use the basement for a bedroom and it not safe for that. So yes more people could end up in the house, if they are born and come home there but goin in I can only put five names on the OC permit. For these reasons, I would like to limit to four people. --172.56.xx.xxx




Number of People (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Jun 26, 2022 9:02 PM
Message:

For clarification. For FHA (Federal Housing Agency) and Section 8, they do NOT care about the life of tenants. They are only interested in collecting a 25% commission from housing assistance funds.

So if a tenants rent is $1,000 a month, Section 8 and other programs pay the city a $250 a month commission. So everyone wants the Maximum number of occupants in a unit. So a no-bedroom unit is exempt from limits.

A 1 bedroom 3 people

A 2 bedroom 5 people

A 3 bedroom 7 people

A 4 bedroom 9 people

--47.156.xx.xx




Number of People (by Mr T [VT]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 5:56 AM
Message:

The only realistic issue with Lots of people is the septic capacity. I require an application/Credit Report for anyone over the age of 18. --199.188.xxx.xx




Number of People (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 6:50 AM
Message:

We use square footage of bedrooms in small places to limit people.

"The rules set out by IPMC are more specific that many other regulations:

* All bedrooms with one person should have at least 70 square feet.

* Shared bedrooms must have at least 50 square feet per person.

* Kitchens and other non-habitable rooms cannot be used as a bedroom.

* Every unit should have an overall occupant limitation based on its overall size:

** 1-2 occupants: must have at least 120 square feet living room

** 3-5 occupants: must have at least 120 square feet living room and 80 square feet dining room

** 6 or more occupants: must have at least 150 square feet living room and 100 square feet dining room --50.82.xxx.xxx




Number of People (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 6:50 AM
Message:

Search on HUD Occupancy Standards, I couldn't post the link for some reason. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Number of People (by Sisco [MO]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 7:34 AM
Message:

If you are concerned that you will have legal action brought against you, You need not advertise anything about the occupancy limit. Select the applicant that meets your requirements. --149.76.xxx.xxx




Number of People (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 7:53 AM
Message:

This is why the few rentals I have are 2 bd, no attic or basement. A lot of -this won't work- comments from the Mom, I don't get any backaches taking leftovers up or down steps. --76.190.xxx.xxx




Number of People (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 8:31 AM
Message:

In fact, you should NOT advertise occupancy limits according to that article. I do for our tiny studios though: ONE HUMAN ONLY. And for our tiny cottages: TWO HUMANS ONLY. By anybody's occupancy limits, they are too small for more. The studios are barely big enough for one, in fact legally they are too small per our county's standards but they are grandfathered. The cottages' bedrooms are too small for two people, but again, grandfathered.

Robert J, the 2 per bedroom + 1 in the living room rule is for CA - most states don't have that. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Number of People (by Wilma [PA]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 9:24 AM
Message:

We have a 2- story sfh that has three good-sized bedrooms, plus a bonus room on the same floor as the others. That room does not have a closet, and it is open to a finished attic that does not have heat or a/c. This is deliberate - the place is 1.5 baths, and we definitely don't want to have another bedroom, potentially bringing the person count up by two.

Piggybacking on what David said, there are usually ways to prevent larger families from occupying, even in a 3 br house. We run an income qualifier that I've used successfully many times, and it pretty much quickly weeds out families of more than 5 - the household income won't support the housing costs as well as the normal costs per person for food, utilities, etc. (We've actually been thanked when we went over the numbers with some people who never took everything into account.)

We've also found that for some reason, families with more than two adults and three children cannot take care of a rental as well as smaller families - but we don't tell them that! --98.115.xxx.xxx




Number of People (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 9:24 AM
Message:

WMH, the 2 per bed + 1 rule is a federal HUD guideline. I think if a bedroom is smaller or living room is very small, then you can subtract 1 or 2.

I agree not to advertise. I've almost never had more than three occupants for 3bedrooms after implementing credit score and W2 income requirements --50.4.xxx.x




Number of People (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 10:01 AM
Message:

You aren't exempt from Fair Housing are you, plenty? You have more than three units? If you are not exempt, you take a huge risk by limiting occupancy to lower than HUD requires. Since you have an occupancy permit that limits to five, you can legally limit to five.

There are legal ways to screen large groups out, but don't advertise that they aren't welcome. If you are going to fudge on the law never put it in writing and don't speak it aloud, just set your written criteria so you can screen them out because they don't meet your written criteria. Adding: everything in the written criteria must be legal. --76.178.xxx.xxx




Number of People (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 10:15 AM
Message:

when you set credit and income criteria , you can require every adult meet it individually. That should cut down on large groups, but won't do anything for 2 adults with 5 kids. --50.4.xxx.x




Number of People (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 10:41 AM
Message:

Everyone should remember that this is no federal "limit" or "rule" on this. HUD provides only a "GUIDELINE" that they have made very clear can vary based on the situation. The "2 per bedroom plus one" is nothing but a guideline.

You could have a tiny house that local limits based on square footage don't allow more than 2 people. You could also have a very large 1 BR unit with a huge living room that could fit 4 pull-out couches -- and HUD might argue that you can't limit that to only 3 because it easily supports more people.

Point is -- that is only a "guideline" to follow and I wouldn't want to be relying on that in court to try to defend a poorly written ad that limited the number of people because someone decides to sue for familial status discrimination...

--67.209.xxx.xx




Number of People (by Hoosier [IN]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 2:31 PM
Message:

Plenty, not sure if this helps or if itís legal, but worth at least consideringÖ.

Check with local code enforcement to see if a room must have a closet to be considered a bedroom. If so, can you remove or wall off the closet? --184.54.x.xx




Number of People (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 2:36 PM
Message:

Room does not need to have a closet to be considered a bedroom, specifically asked the building inspector and an appraiser. Many old homes don't have them: they used "chifforobes" or free-standing closets, and are perfectly legal.

Egress is important: must be able to get out of the room through both a door and a window of some sort or it's not a sleeping space.

I *think* a door is important but not sure. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Number of People (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 2:50 PM
Message:

Room needs a door but if just missing you could be told to put it back on,if you opened it up so there was like 4 feet then it is more like a playroom.I had a 3 bedroom attracting welfare mothers with kids in a bad school district so i advertised it as a 1 bedroom and everyone who showed up was happy to see a couple bonus rooms --74.77.xx.xx




Number of People (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 2:56 PM
Message:

Thanks all, I will consider everything carefully. --172.58.xx.xxx




Number of People (by mike [CA]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 3:12 PM
Message:

david, the capacity of the water heater does not add to the water use, just permits more using it to have a hot shower. of course if one takes REALLY long showers they will contribute to overuse.

calif has a water shortage because we use our water unwisely and let too much go unused. even now the vast bulk of water here goes to agriculture so all the rest of you are welcome...enjoy your veggies and nuts and fruits. and y'all better HOPE we don't see ag rates go up or your cabbage will triple as will strawberries and lettuce and everything else well grow for you in our central valley. for comparo the cost of an acre foot in LA is about $2,000. in the central valley it can be as low as $70

at 7-10% of the states usage theres really isn't much that residential users can do that ag can't do far cheaper and faster --75.80.xx.xx




Number of People (by GKARL [PA]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 3:21 PM
Message:

I have this very concern with a large three bedroom two bath home I have coming to market. I really don't want a huge family in it. I like David's suggestions and will seek to implement it. I don't think it's wise to advertise the limitation however. It's best to cull them as you screen. --209.122.xx.xxx




Number of People (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jun 27, 2022 7:22 PM
Message:

We have only 3 larger homes (3/2) and in one, because we added an ADU, we had to legally remove a bedroom in order to add the ADU sleeping space according to septic code. So we turned the closet around, kind of, sealed it up in the room and made it a linen closet that opens to the hall instead of the bedroom. We also removed the door. REALLY tiny room so that's all it took.

In another we enlarged the bathroom into a bedroom, making it very tiny, and added a door to the next bedroom, making it a dressing room instead of a sleeping room.

The other one, no way to eliminate and it's rented to a family of three. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Number of People (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jun 28, 2022 9:40 AM
Message:

From a liability standpoint, as long as you are not making the call - you should be alright. If you are following someone else's guidance (OC police, rental inspector, or HUD)....I don't see where you can be held at fault.

My issue would be why are there so many standards that don't agree with one another. --24.101.xxx.xxx




Number of People (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Jun 28, 2022 5:11 PM
Message:

Following "guidance" is often different from the law -- that is why you still need to worry. Again, HUD provides "guidance" that they think 2 per bedroom plus 1 is a "good guide" for the number of people in a unit. But even HUD has directly stated that that isn't a flat limit or rule or law. If I recall, they actually gave the example that if a couple with two male kids applied for a 1-BR unit, that denying them based on their "2+1 guidance" could easily be a violation of familiar status -- because those two kids could easily share the same bedroom while the parents were on a living room pull-out couch.

Laws matter. Guidance is just guidance. They often are not identical. We see this with number of people in a unit, we see this with ESAs, and likely other areas too.

That is also why there are "so many standards that don't agree with one another." Because they often aren't laws. They are guidelines. Guidelines vary depending on who you ask.

-John...

--67.209.xxx.xx




Number of People (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Jun 29, 2022 9:54 AM
Message:

Guidelines and not law, but housing court judges often take those guidelines into consideration, so you need a darn good reason to ignore the guidelines and "I don't want five children in my house" is not a good reason. --76.178.xxx.xxx




Number of People (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Jun 29, 2022 12:36 PM
Message:

Yes, to be clear, my point was going the other way. Meaning that if you are trying to use the guidelines to have LESS people in a home, then you need to be very careful. I wasn't talking about ignoring the guidelines to try to have less. I was talking about following the "guidelines" to try to have less -- when the guidelines might not line up to the law in all cases.

Again, even HUD has made this very clear -- that their guidelines are nothing but that -- to help try to determine what makes sense -- but that they are not the law and shouldn't be used as such.

--67.209.xxx.xx




Number of People (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Jun 30, 2022 11:40 PM
Message:

How many people would you put in a two bedroom house that is 585 sq ft with one of the bedrooms being 8x9? --75.89.xxx.xxx




Number of People (by Mr T [VT]) Posted on: Jul 1, 2022 6:42 AM
Message:

Like Joihn said, you have to be very careful. Credit Checks and thorough applications. My application says at the top "Incomplete Applications will be Rejected" Then you pick. Most people will tell you who would be moving in and how many and the questionable ones will always leave something out. All you can care about is the ovewr 18 applicants and they ALL have to pass a credit check. --199.188.xxx.xx




Number of People (by Mr T [VT]) Posted on: Jul 1, 2022 6:42 AM
Message:

Like Joihn said, you have to be very careful. Credit Checks and thorough applications. My application says at the top "Incomplete Applications will be Rejected" Then you pick. Most people will tell you who would be moving in and how many and the questionable ones will always leave something out. All you can care about is the ovewr 18 applicants and they ALL have to pass a credit check. --199.188.xxx.xx




Number of People (by Mr T [VT]) Posted on: Jul 1, 2022 6:42 AM
Message:

Like Joihn said, you have to be very careful. Credit Checks and thorough applications. My application says at the top "Incomplete Applications will be Rejected" Then you pick. Most people will tell you who would be moving in and how many and the questionable ones will always leave something out. All you can care about is the ovewr 18 applicants and they ALL have to pass a credit check. --199.188.xxx.xx




Number of People (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jul 1, 2022 8:25 AM
Message:

This house has one tiny bedroom with closet but it is one square foot away from the county inspector allowing two people in this room. So my three bedroom house would generally allow for six (2per bedroom) has been reduced to five. So anyone in my area that reads three bedrooms automatically thinks six people. What happens is I can't put six people's name in the occupancy permit. And when I do rent to give people they usually spy the basement as an opportunity to host the teen. Which the basement should not be used as a bedroom as there is only one exit point and not the required two. So I have removed the count of people from my ad and starting over. So far the applications are pretty bad. Even thou they continue to pay the application fee and try, I'm being to think they think if they pay and turn in ANYTHING they are automatically guaranteed the move in. It's a strange world right now. I will keep changing it up but not lowering my screening. It's a good house. Needs a good resident. --172.56.xx.xx




Number of People (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Jul 1, 2022 8:57 AM
Message:

LisaFL: I would allow the number that are allowed by law per local or state code. In that case, it might be LESS than HUD's 2+1 "guidance."

If it was a 1000 sq ft home with 1 BR, HUD's guidance of 2+1 might be too low. You might need to allow MORE than HUD's 2+1 in that depending on local laws.

The point is: HUD's guidance is not the law. The law is what matters.

--67.209.xxx.xx




Number of People (by bet [MA]) Posted on: Jul 1, 2022 9:16 AM
Message:

One person per unit seems to be the magic number these days. Everyone is so much happier. --68.66.xxx.xxx




Number of People (by LisaFL [FL]) Posted on: Jul 1, 2022 10:07 AM
Message:

If you have a bedroom too small for two and barely big enough for one, donít count it.

When I advertised my tiny 2 bedroom as such Iíd get applicants with way too many people. Even those with a reasonable number were disappointed that it was so small.

So I changed it and advertised it as a 1 bedroom. Solved all my problems and those expecting a one bedroom were thrilled to see it had a small bonus room/office. --75.89.xxx.xxx




Number of People (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jul 11, 2022 3:49 PM
Message:

Lisa, that is what I do for market rent property. This house Ive been taking section 8 on and so if i advertised and accept a two bedroom voucher I'm not going to get paid for that extra bedroom. Maybe a trade off, but there are vouchers for three bedroom homes with only 3 people in the family. It depends on the sex and age of the children when they move from a two bedroom voucher to a three bedroom voucher. So that's really my niche --172.56.xx.xxx



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