Sec. Dep. Appliences
Click here for Top Ten Discussions. CLICK HERE for Q & A Homepage
Receive Free Rental Owner Updates Email:  
MrLandlord Q & A
     
     
Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Marie [FL]) Jun 21, 2022 3:30 PM
       Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Ken [NY]) Jun 21, 2022 3:34 PM
       Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Jim in O C [CA]) Jun 21, 2022 3:47 PM
       Sec. Dep. Appliences (by WMH [NC]) Jun 21, 2022 4:04 PM
       Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Hoosier [IN]) Jun 21, 2022 4:25 PM
       Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Marie [FL]) Jun 21, 2022 4:28 PM
       Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Marie [FL]) Jun 21, 2022 4:31 PM
       Sec. Dep. Appliences (by WMH [NC]) Jun 21, 2022 6:41 PM
       Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Robert J [CA]) Jun 21, 2022 6:48 PM
       Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jun 21, 2022 8:18 PM
       Sec. Dep. Appliences (by plenty [MO]) Jun 21, 2022 9:06 PM
       Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Vee [OH]) Jun 21, 2022 9:48 PM
       Sec. Dep. Appliences (by plenty [MO]) Jun 22, 2022 7:00 AM
       Sec. Dep. Appliences (by MikeA [TX]) Jun 22, 2022 8:15 AM
       Sec. Dep. Appliences (by S i d [MO]) Jun 22, 2022 8:48 AM
       Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Marie [FL]) Jun 23, 2022 8:23 AM

Click here to reply to this discussion.
Click Here to send this discussion to a friend

Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Marie [FL]) Posted on: Jun 21, 2022 3:30 PM
Message:

I just had a tenant of 5 years vacate my condo and it's a wreck. She never cleaned! I know, it's probably my fault for not heeding the red flags. Nevertheless, one of the issues is that I need to replace all the appliances in the kitchen since she never told me the fridge didn't work and she had moldy food in there . The stench is not cleanable. Bottom line is all the appliances (which are 17 years old Jenn Aires) need to be replaced. I want to sell the condo and be done with it.

My question: Can any portion of these appliances that I will be replacing be deductible from the Security Deposit?

Thanks for any input. --99.106.xx.xx




Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Jun 21, 2022 3:34 PM
Message:

I wouls deduct a destroyed appliance from the security deposit.I would remove them for the sale but i would not replace them for the sale,i sell rehabbed houses regularly with no appliances --74.77.xx.xx




Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Jim in O C [CA]) Posted on: Jun 21, 2022 3:47 PM
Message:

If you have before pictures calculate the damage done by this tenant and deduct or take to small claims court.

--99.23.xxx.x




Sec. Dep. Appliences (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jun 21, 2022 4:04 PM
Message:

17 years? I'm having an issue with that.

It is likely that even if she had reported it wasn't working, fridge would not be worth fixing even if possible. You would have had to buy a new fridge regardless.

Other appliances also 17 years old? Well past their depreciated life.

She may have left a mess, but all those non-working appliances are on you.

CLEANING, however, was on her. Hire a team to clean and deduct THAT. --50.82.xxx.xxx




Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Hoosier [IN]) Posted on: Jun 21, 2022 4:25 PM
Message:

In my mind it depends...

Do you have a cleaning fee in your lease? If so, deduct that. If not, is the fact that the appliances are not working "normal wear and tear" or did she do something to damage them? For example, a broken interior shelf would be damage, but if the compressor just stopped working and the unit is 17 years old...that seems to be normal wear and tear.

I deduct for things like broken handles, broken crisper drawers, etc....but not for things that just "stop working" if it's an older appliance. Pull some data from Consumer Reports on the average lifespan of an appliance.

I do agree with one poster who said sell the unit without any appliances. The only one I would replace (if you have one) is a built-in dishwasher. --99.92.xxx.xxx




Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Marie [FL]) Posted on: Jun 21, 2022 4:28 PM
Message:

Yes. Thanks for your input.

How would you calculate

"a destroyed appliance" from the security deposit? --99.106.xx.xx




Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Marie [FL]) Posted on: Jun 21, 2022 4:31 PM
Message:

Although selling the unit without appliances sounds common sensical, I will be renting it out if I don't get any takers on the sale of the property. And then I would need the appliances in place regardless.

Thanks again. --99.106.xx.xx




Sec. Dep. Appliences (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Jun 21, 2022 6:41 PM
Message:

You can't charge a tenant for 17 year old appliances!!! --50.82.xxx.xxx




Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Jun 21, 2022 6:48 PM
Message:

Major appliances are depreciated over a maximum of 9 years. So said they were 17 years old, so you can NOT charge your tenant for a replacement. But as said above, you can charge a cleaning fee -- SO LONG AS YOU HAVE PICTURES of the Inside and Outside of the Refrigerator (with a time/date stamp camera picture print out). Tenant leaving food inside and mold growing.

In court you have to produce a paid receipt showing cleaning fees. OR if the best you can do is an estimate from a cleaning service. --47.156.xx.xx




Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jun 21, 2022 8:18 PM
Message:

If someone is in a place for five years and never cleans - who fault is it? - You need to enforce the standards that you want. Hoping that they will do as you would like didn't work well for you.....so you think you should charge them?

I am hoping that the cost of appliances is small tuition payment ....one large enough that you elect to get yourself trained up if you stay as a landlord.

It is a tough thankless job --24.101.xxx.xxx




Sec. Dep. Appliences (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jun 21, 2022 9:06 PM
Message:

Charge her for cleaning those appliances and if I came there to clean them it would hit your wallet... I mean her security deposit hard. Am I hired? --172.56.xx.xxx




Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Jun 21, 2022 9:48 PM
Message:

Just charge for cleaning, even if 17 years old you got 5 so that is 12 which is more than appliance life - cleaning does not expire. --76.190.xxx.xxx




Sec. Dep. Appliences (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jun 22, 2022 7:00 AM
Message:

Broken or not they should have been clean! They were clean when she moved there. Then is that cleaning money to remove and replace. Always say cleaning deductions both in writing and verbally when speaking. Housekeeping is what was expected. If she lived there without,she didn't have to cause I'm guessing you'd replaced along time ago (and raised the rent) cleaning charge against security deposit. --172.56.xx.xx




Sec. Dep. Appliences (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Jun 22, 2022 8:15 AM
Message:

Call someone you know and ask them to write-up an estimate to clean the appliances to the condition they were in when the tenant move in so you have something to show a judge. My guess if they are that bad it is likely 4-5 hours of work each which should equate to well over $150-200 per appliance. Assuming the rest of the house was left equally dirty, charge the security deposit to clean that up as well. Charge to haul off anything else that was left, anything broken, crayon or other wall damage, etc. Once you have estimates and provide the security deposit settlement it is up to you whether you have the appliances cleaned or simply replaced. --209.205.xxx.xx




Sec. Dep. Appliences (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Jun 22, 2022 8:48 AM
Message:

I disagree with the whole notion of "you can't charge for depreciated items."

You most surely can and should charge them!

Depreciation is a tax concept. It doesn't reflect real world value. All the land lords on here should agree once we go over this very simple issue.

Houses depreciate on a 27.5 year life span. If a tenant burned down your 30 year old house, would you charge? Of course! What if they broke your 50 year old lead stained glass window? Of course! What if they (yeah, you'd charge).

Don't like that example? Consider the car in your driveway. Tenant gets mad at you for being an evil LL and pours sand in the gas tank. You catch them in the act and want to prosecute, but their free lawyer says, "Ah but you see this car is past it's depreciation schedule of X years." You'd have a fit, and you'd be right to do so.

Depreciation was invented because tax authorities got tired of never getting any revenue from smart business owners who would make large capital purchases -- machines, factories, etc -- that would essentially nullify any profits in their first 3-5 years of business. Instead of allowing them to expense the entire machine or factory the first year, the tax authorities estimated what they thought was the "useful lifespan" of said item and divided up the total cost over x-years, thus ensuring they could plunder---err, I mean "tax"--the profits from the business. But in reality, the expense occurred in the 1st year and thus the business owner didn't receive the portion of the profits used for capital expenses. How generous of the Govt authorities to allow you to expense your ACTUAL expense over 27.5 (residential) to 40 years (commercial), especially when inflation is eating up the value of all that accumulated but not-yet-taken depreciation!

The LLs here who don't agree to this: please explain your logic. A MACRS table will not convince me. Again, that's for tax purposes, not for damage purposes.

So the bottom line is this: how much to charge?

Easy cheesy. Call up a local used a appliance store and ask how much for an older stove? Bill that amount plus removal and delivery of a "new" used appliance.

I say it again (for the umpteenth time), depreciation is a tax concept. It does not reflect real value, and you are entitled to be paid for something of real value that a tenant destroyed. If I can prove the appliance was working when the tenant moved in (and I can; it's on our move-in inspection report!), then it should be working on the way out, or if not it should have been reported as non-working during the tenancy. Then I would be the one who determines if it's worth fixing or not.

As a good friend of mine--Brad 20,000--says: "Timid land lords raise skinny kids." Maybe you don't have kids, or maybe you're doing well already. So what? The point is if the appliance had been properly cared for, it would most likely be working today. Even if not, it's worth scrap metal value. If all else fails, bill them for the cost to haul off and whatever the going rate for 150 lbs of steel at the scrap yard.

--184.4.xx.xx




Sec. Dep. Appliences (by Marie [FL]) Posted on: Jun 23, 2022 8:23 AM
Message:

Thank you Sid for your very well explained opinion and astute recommendation.

Based on all the comments here, I have decided to charge her for the fee to haul away the appliances, junk, and debris she left in the unit and I will bite the bullet on new appliances only because I'm getting it ready to sell, but IF that doesn't happen, I have new appliances for the next tenant.

Again, thanks to everyone who took the time.

--99.106.xx.xx



Click Here to send this discussion to a friend
Report discussion to Webmaster


Reply:
Subject: RE: Sec. Dep. Appliences
Your Name:
Your State:

Message:
Sec. Dep. Appliences
Would you like to be notified via email when somebody replies to this thread?
If so, you must include your valid email address here. Do not add your address more than once per thread/subject. By entering your email address here, you agree to receive notification from Mrlandlord.com every time anyone replies to "this" thread. You will receive response notifications for up to one week following the original post. Your email address will not be visible to readers.
Email Address: