I have an attorney working on one of the most problematic evictions I have ever done. Yesterday, my PITA tenant requested a court date and that will be on May 10th.

My attorney told me yesterday not to accept any rent from this tenant between now and May 10th. I asked the attorney,.."How do I not accept rent when all of my rents are paid via direct deposits at my bank?" The attorney had no answer here,.....does anyone else here have an answer?

This is the same tenant I tried to evict last October and the judge dismissed the case because my tenant paid the past due rent (via direct deposit) 2 days before the court hearing. She did not even show up for her own court date either.

I have all my tenants deposit funds into my bank. It works out so much better than chasing mail or pounding on doors.

Is the non-payment the only reason you have for eviction? My lease says that one day late on rents is a violation that could cause eviction.

Any funds received bring a certified bank check to court payable to them... returning it may be your best option. Pitch that idea to your attorney and see what he/she says.

I like Missouri law. If they are 1 penny short on rent, I can evict. I can evict even if they pay rent late, because the lease says they agree to pay ON TIME, and repeat failure to do so constitutes a material breach.

Zero,

On March 16th, I posted a 30 day Notice to Terminate this tenant's MTM lease agreement and that notice said she needed to vacate on or before April 16th. I gave no reason for this.

When she did not vacate by April 16th, I filed eviction papers on April 18th that said I was filing for Possession ONLY. I did not want unpaid rent to have anything to do with this eviction filing. I just want my house back and that is all I filed for.

It amazes me that you can't just evict. I am lucky in my state I guess.

So your judge allows a tenant to stay because they paid, even tho that wasn't the underlying issue?

I would see if your lawyer can call for a change of venue. Unless this is typical for your area.

Sorry to hear you are going thru it... and a second time it seems.

I don't have an easy answer for you, but a couple thoughts.

First, think about what you could put in your lease for next time that will give you a workaround. For example, "we have the right with x days' notice to alter tenant payment terms and communicate such to tenant via email". (check state law as to how much notice you need to give)

Secondly, I had a tenant I had filed for eviction with, and on the morning of the eviction hearing she hand delivered payment to our PO box. I was aware of this because she texted me and told me. She told the judge at the hearing that she had paid, but when she explained what she did, he asked me if I had cashed the check...I said "no". He clearly stated this did not constitute payment. Not sure how this can help in your situation, but maybe as one person mentioned you could send the money back to them as a check?

Can your bank put some type "hold" on your account so that no deposits can be made? I don't know how many other tenants you'd have making deposits between now and the 10th but you could contact them and have them make other arrangements this month.

Jason,

Clearnow requires tenants to have a checking acct and many of my tenants are cash only, especially this one. And how would ClearNow solve this problem? Doesn't ClearNow just take the money without any involvement of the LL and/or tenant?

Nicole,

If I only had 1 or 2 tenants, I would temporarily shut down the entire direct deposit system. However, I have 15 tenants who all just love using Zelle or visting my bank (W.F.) with a deposit slip to pay their rent with. I can't shut down a great stress free rent payment system just because of one bad PITA tenant.

Roy, I don't use ClearNow so this may be incorrect, but I believe in the past you can "shut off" a tenant's ability to use it. Thus, they can't pay rent and there is no problem of accepting rent. Someone else can confirm, deny, or clarify.

I know you say many of your tenants are cash only, and I think that's what Jason might be alluding to as well. It's not that all cash only people are bad, but you have to ask the REASON behind why they are cash only? Have they bounced so many checks no bank will take them? Are they "cash under the table" tax cheats?

The reason is important...VERY important.

I have had plenty of people with "cash in hand, ready to move in today." I reject them automatically, not because people with cash are bad, but because it shows a mindset I'm not willing to take a chance dealing with.

You have to ask yourself this: what is the mindset of someone who is cash only? Why? Are they hiding? How would you ever collect from them if/when they go bad? Can't levy a bank account that doesn't exist.

My guess is there are a tiny, TINY minority of people who have 100% LEGIT reasons for not using a bank. "I don't trust them lyin' bankers" is just a smoke screen excuse, sort of like "My last land lord never fixed anything." Ignore them; most likely if you looked into their history you'd find multiple late pays, charge offs, etc.

I'm thinking maybe 1 in 10,000. The rest are irresponsible, lying crooks always looking to dodge their responsibilities. I have no interest or time to sift through these kinds of people to find the 1 who might be legit.

Now...if someone comes to me wit a 720 credit score, flawless criminal background, and impeccable past land lord references, and they don't want to use ACH, will I accept them? Yep. I have yet to find such a unicorn.

I keep all tenants on MTM ONLY. Thus, when I've reached the end of the road with someone, I would be able to give Notice to Vacate. Then, if it goes to eviction, they are a holdover tenant. Monies owed are separate. They could still earn a Pay or Quit for rent owed on top of that, but again, the Notice to Vacate would still be in effect, no matter if they caught up rent.

I've had tenants that refused to pay rent. Then the day before eviction court, they make a direct deposit into my account.

My attorney's have advised me to immediately refund the tenant because I am not accepting any rent from them.

In this case there was a bigger problem. The check they used to make a deposit had insufficient funds.

But I was ready for this trick. The account this deposited into was linked to a savings account. So I removed almost all of the money in the account except the amount needed to refund my tenant, plus $100.

So in court my tenant said, "I paid this months rent after receiving the 3 day notice". I told the judge I wasn't aware of any payment. My tenant showed the judge the receipt dated the day before. So my attorney interjected and had me write my tenant a refund check. In the Memo Section of the check I wrote "Rent Refund on check deposited 02/17/2022".

Technically the bank is acting as your agent in this situation.

Ken,

I could do what you suggested but it would not happen before May 10th. The first week of any month (May 1st is just around the corner), my direct deposit tenant account gets a lot of activity and trying to make account changes before May 10th would be an absolute train wreck for May rents.

That IS the problem with Direct Deposit and separate accts for each may be your answer if you decide not to change how you collect. If she pays, you could just drop the case. And I would open a new account. Tell problem tenant, I opened a new acct for deposits. Tell her you had to close the other one due to something "like some hacker charges" or something. (she may not figure out you didn't close it...but then you CAN close (her) problem account at any point.

Good luck with getting her out. It may not be this time, but maybe the next time it will work with a different deposit account.

Roy, return the funds to the tenant right in front of the judge. State clearly in your best Alabama-ese to the tenant so that the judge can hear it. "It is now too late for the late rental money owed and fees. I insist on possession".

Watch how the flavor of the proceedings changes. It's magic. Don't tell your attorney ahead of time just have the check and a typed detail of what's owed and what they have paid. Have copies to hand to your attorney, the tenant and the judge. Always hand the paper copies to the bailiff. Never approach the judge with out asking "permission to approach".

Sid,

Roy, I never said it was a sin to accept cash for rent (strawman).

I went through details of why the vast majority of people who don't deal with banks don't, and there are basically 2 answers. Answer #1 is they can't because their money history sucks so badly no one trusts them (and you shouldn't either) and Answer #2 is they are cheats, liars, and are ducking responsibility. Deadbeat dads not paying child support, people with collection accounts ducking creditors, etc.

Again, if you want to hunt for that 1 in 10,000 who have a LEGIT reason not to deal with banks, that's your business.

I do not have time, patience, or desire to deal with such folks. You're welcome to them! The stories we get here are always entertaining and keep the discussion lively.

Now go crack open a few cans of Coors and let us know how it goes in court.

Lana,

I would never have my tenants come to where I live to pay rent. They would be showing at all hours of the day or night.

Sid,

I don't know how judges handle this issue anywhere else but in California it is well known by most landlords that if rent is accepted during the eviction, then landlord will usually need to start over the eviction assuming the grounds for eviction still exist.

It is for this reason I have hesitated to set up an electronic payment system since I was trying to find something that allowed me to accept or reject any payment made by tenant.

I don't know if it is possible to prevent a specific tenant from depositing rent unless you have a completely separate system for that tenant which you terminate. So for example if you had a separate account for that tenant, you could close that account so that no deposit could be made. Maybe there are other systems that allow such a specific refusal.

Roy, what I don't understand is since you had this issue come up before with the same tenant a few months ago, and they used the same tactic previously, why didn't you think they would try it again. This tactic is near the top of the list for lowlifes in California. In fact, it might even have its own chapter in the book someone might publish called "The Lowlife Manual On How To Avoid And Delay Eviction".

I never, ever want tenants to show up to pay at my house. I have spent a lot of time and effort to avoid having them know where I live.

Right now I know of two tenants that know my new house. One is my daughter and the other is my mother in law. Unfortunately the house is in the biz name. But we are creating a trust that has no link to our names to put it in.

Ken,

Roy,

I don't know how AL works, but I can tell you what would happen here under those circumstances. I would show up to court with a business check made out to the tenant. They would show up stating they paid rent, so they get to stay. I would explain to the judge that their eviction has nothing to do with rent, they were given proper notice and here is documentation. Further, I acknowledge they paid rent when they weren't supposed to and I am prepared to return that rent to them in this business check.

After the judge made sure the 30 day notice was proper and delivered properly, he would tell me to hand over the check and give the tenants as long as it took for me to get a court officer to the house to be out. (Typically this takes about 4 hours, but I never tell them that. I want them to spend 4 hours moving, not tearing the place up.)

I used to accept rent at the bank like you, but I have moved away from it. The bank charged me for so much cash (like yours), the bank "upgraded" their computer system and to say it was a PIA to track who rent came from would be the understatement of the year, the bank was absolutely no help in tracking deposits. I now accept mailed payments at my PO Box, or I have an online system they can pay digitally through. I am switching over to online only, but will take a while. I have a few older folks that don't know how to even turn a computer on, so I let them keep mailing. Anyway, you may want to consider that at least. My folks that don't have a bank account can get a pre-paid debit card and use that. I have a few that do.

Thanks Doogie,

I will tell my attorney what you just suggested,...bringing a business check to court with me. However, the thought refunding money for 40 days of past due rent really turns my stomach but if that is the only way, then so be it. I want my attorney to explain to the judge that my eviction has nothing to do with rent and here are my papers to prove it. If this court case on May 10th backfires on me like the one that backfired in November of 2021, I will lose all faith in the legal system and may even consider doing a self-help eviction.

Dino said "what I don't understand is since you had this issue come up before with the same tenant a few months ago, and they used the same tactic previously, why didn't you think they would try it again.

Over the last 15 years, I have filed and won over 20 evictions. I was batting 1000 for year after year with evictions and I thought I had the eviction system down pat,...until I lost my first eviction case with this tenant last November. That was an eye opener. Back then, I filed the eviction for non-payment of rent and when rent got paid at the last minute, the judge dismissed the case and made me look like a fool. The judge's last words to me was 'you need an attorney',..which only infuriated me. I have an attorney now and a different judge on May 10th.

This time around I tried a different approach by not filing for non-payment of rent but for 'possession only' which I can only hope will carry greater legal weight than an eviction case filed for non-payment of rent. I am expecting her to make a rent payment (for April and May) on May 9th via my direct deposit system. I will talk to my bank manager and see if a temporary freeze can be put on my tenant deposit account a few days before the May 10th court date.

Yes Dino, this worthless deadbeat tenant is playing a game with me and I just need to outsmart her and beat her at her own game.

I agree with Ken.

Ken,

Those are my thoughts too! However, convincing the judge this case has nothing to do with unpaid rent could be the uphill battle here. I will have a lawyer and a different judge this time around but those two things do not guarantee me anything.

When you file for your eviction file with both a financial reason and a different reason.

A history of late payments and money owed for example.

Roy,

Well, I now understand what you were thinking but when a certain judge has a certain belief in an ambiguous area of the law, you might not have been able to prevail even if Alabama law was in your favor and the judge was wrong on the law on the issue. An appeal to higher court could be very costly and time consuming and I would not suggest that.

No way to predict but it might be worth it to you, like you said, to temporarily shut down the account even it it means you have to go through the hassle of contacting and explaining to your good tenants that they will have to do their deposit again. Try also to obtain some documentation from bank showing that account was frozen and could not receive deposit beginning on whatever date you do it.

It would be very satisfying to have that last minute deposit by the deadbeat rejected by the bank if you can manage it.

You should then get your day in court based on the real issue of the case which is all we ever want.

Hopefully this tenant doesn't pull some other fraudulent delaying tactics like bankruptcy.

And since this tenant has shown a sleazy nature, be sure to assume they might try something after they are gone so when you get possession, take photos of the unit to document anything left behind so they can't claim there was something of value you need to return. Maybe even have a witness with you at the lockout and maybe even get names of law enforcement that does the lockout.

Also very important is that I would actually go through with the final lockout where you are given possession by law enforcement via the eviction order. The tenant might move out early which might cause you to think you don't need the lockout performed by law enforcement so you cancel the formal lockout which would be done by law enforcement. Tenant might then claim they never actually moved out and that you took possession unlawfully. So have the court ordered possession carried out to its completion.

Deadbeats know a lot of these sleazy tactics because they hang out with other deadbeats or they might have used them before.

If I understand correctly, you have a MTM agreement. That means that either party can terminate it with a 30-day notice.

You gave notice that you're terminating the agreement. You want to move your daughter in, or address foundation issues, or prepare it to sell. Rent payment or nonpayment is irrelevant.

I can understand a judge dismissing an eviction for nonpayment when they pay at the last minute. This is a completely different scenario. You're simply terminating the agreement and wanting the property back. If they happen to be current on rent when that day comes, all the better! Just don't tell the tenant that.

This morning I called my bank manager and gave him all of the details of what I have told you all. I asked if he could 'freeze my tenant account' for a few days in May and he said we can only do that if there is any evidence of fraudulent activity going on,...which there is not. However, what we can do is change your account number on any day you tell us too and you will then have to tell all of your 'good tenants' what the new number is. I told the bank manager I would discuss this option with my lawyer but this option seems to be the best option.

Now, fast forward to 2:30p.m. today and I get my postal mail. I got a letter (docket notice) from the court system where my tenant answered my claim for possession and requested a court date. My tenant did not give any reason for requesting a court date. However, at the bottom of the court form she hand wrote this: I, Ms. Jones, will be moved out of this house before May 1st, 2022.

Roy and all others,

please note that there is an imposter amongst us.

(Evidenced 7- posts up)

The real RB [TN] posts all end with an IP address

ending in 24.183 Dig ?

Based on tenant past performance, I would continue with eviction.

Tenant has not turned over keys and has not turned over possession to you of a completely vacant unit without anybody else in the unit claiming right of possession. Who knows if she intends to install somebody else in the unit before she moves and if she moves. Maybe she is trying to get you to enter the unit on May 1 as a setup since you will not have had the court date by then. You can always go to the property and determine based on noise you can hear outside of the unit after May 1 that the unit has not been vacated. Thus you would have every justification to appear in court seeking possession on May 10.

I realize there will be some cost to you to continue with the eviction but I believe it's worth it to you.

She might be concerned about the financial cost of losing and maybe thinks such a statement on that document you received will reduce judgement you might obtain against her.

Regardless, if she did not comply with a lawful and enforceable notice to vacate and you filed suit, you are entitled to obtain proper compensation.

Dino,

Even if she does actually move out, I will continue this case and show up for court on May 10th. I want that Writ of Possession which I have paid dearly for. I will frame this one and hang it on the wall.

Roy,

Excellent.

I'll look forward to update.

Roy, I text the tenants and will ask for a forwarding address to send the refund of deposit?

Dave,

i cannot think of a better reason than to demand a common paper check be delivered by first class mail to a PO box. NO ELECTRONIC PAYMENTS EVER. "cash" payers are a sure sign of a PITA coming soon. they are that way for many reasons all indicating cockroachery. child support liens, tax liens, civil judgements (like past landlords)...conspiracy theorists. the list is endless and unless you enjoy torment and BS blather by folks that cannot get a checking account simply make an active checking account a part of your screening. i recently got a stack pf checks from a tenant that took my advice to simply send me as many checks as she wanted so as to avoid a late fee. she sent 8, which i will hold and use at the proper time. since she sent me them at my request i will even give a courtesy call to make sure they are good.

that said, generally speaking, accepting rent is the last thing you want to do. you're getting advice from all over the country but your attorney has advised the best course for YOUR jurisdiction, don't give the tenant any straws to grasp onto or they will and you will be back at square one. courts seek ways to avoid folks on the street, don't help them help deadbeats