Gas Stoves - who knew? (by WMH [NC]) Apr 24, 2022 11:22 AM|
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Apr 24, 2022 11:58 AM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Vee [OH]) Apr 24, 2022 12:04 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by BillW [NJ]) Apr 24, 2022 12:34 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Barb [MO]) Apr 24, 2022 12:55 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Allym [NJ]) Apr 24, 2022 1:48 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Ken [NY]) Apr 24, 2022 1:52 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Wilma [PA]) Apr 24, 2022 2:23 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Busy [WI]) Apr 24, 2022 3:34 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Apr 24, 2022 4:50 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Busy [WI]) Apr 24, 2022 5:00 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Apr 24, 2022 6:16 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Lana [IN]) Apr 24, 2022 7:55 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Apr 24, 2022 8:20 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Lana [IN]) Apr 24, 2022 10:13 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Apr 24, 2022 10:19 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Jac [OH]) Apr 24, 2022 10:45 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by John... [MI]) Apr 24, 2022 11:06 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Lana [IN]) Apr 24, 2022 11:14 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by S i d [MO]) Apr 25, 2022 9:17 AM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by S i d [MO]) Apr 25, 2022 9:18 AM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by WMH [NC]) Apr 25, 2022 9:34 AM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Apr 25, 2022 10:01 AM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Busy [WI]) Apr 25, 2022 10:51 AM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Busy [WI]) Apr 25, 2022 12:15 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Apr 25, 2022 2:54 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Apr 25, 2022 2:57 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by MAP [NY]) Apr 25, 2022 6:28 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Apr 25, 2022 6:35 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by zero [IN]) Apr 25, 2022 6:40 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by MikeA [TX]) Apr 25, 2022 8:20 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by MikeA [TX]) Apr 25, 2022 8:52 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Apr 25, 2022 10:26 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by tryan [MA]) Apr 26, 2022 9:53 AM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by tryan [MA]) Apr 26, 2022 9:56 AM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by MikeA [TX]) Apr 26, 2022 1:11 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Hoosier [IN]) Apr 26, 2022 2:00 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Lana [IN]) Apr 26, 2022 5:34 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Apr 26, 2022 6:05 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by mike [CA]) May 6, 2022 2:57 PM
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 11:22 AM
//w w w .popsci.com/environment/gas-stoves-harmful/
They are being banned in new construction in some areas with more to follow.
I've always hated gas anyway - I can smell it - but I didn't know these facts...
We have induction burners in our own house, which are as adjustable as gas. You just need to use the right pans. --50.82.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 11:58 AM
If I am refurbing a unit I pull electric for converting from gas stoves to electric. It costs a lot to run a 6 gauge wire at 75-100 feet but for saftey and liability reasons I think that it is right choice going forward. --72.49.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 12:04 PM
I make the electric hook-up also, much cleaner with no flames in air-bnb. The induction is a wonderful thing I found in S. East Asia, I have 2 countertop panels myself - grandkids can not get burned except on the pan in my hand. --76.190.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by BillW [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 12:34 PM
Playing devils advocate, the authors of the article seem to have a "green" bias, and what's that saying: "We find what we are looking for". I'd be curious to see how the health effects of gas stoves compare to other dangers in our lives like driving cars, kids (and me) spending lots of time on computers, and the effects of sugar in our diet, for example.
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Barb [MO]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 12:55 PM
I knew they were being banned in some places, like San Fransisco.
Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure the pigs in my county produce more methane than the stoves in my county. --149.76.xxx.xx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Allym [NJ]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 1:48 PM
They are also after Callery Pear trees for some reason that sounds stupid. Also called Bradford Pear, very pretty and nice shape. Originally planted to help polinate regular pear trees. Bears tiny fruits that birds like. So the gas stove will still work with a match if the electricity is out which it is likely to be since we don't have enough generation and would not for years. --108.24.xx.xx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 1:52 PM
Liberal cities are banning gas being put into buildings for political reasons,they are trying to force a green agenda --74.77.xx.xx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Wilma [PA]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 2:23 PM
And if the electric is not produced by "green" methods, banning the gas is foolish. --98.115.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 3:34 PM
Exactly Wilma! So, the agenda being pushed is cooking with...coal. Because thats still where a large amount of electricity is produced. And as the sun gets closer and closer to switching polarity, a gas stove and fireplace, or a woodburning stove will be very good to have. Last time the big nuclear reactor in the sky switched polarities, ( just before the civil war,) telegraph lines were damaged. Now, with everything electrified, we'll be wishing for some good old low rech, off the electric grid stuff. Our electric grid isn't up to snuff as it is.
Or, so I've heard. --70.92.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 4:50 PM
Switching polarity, do tell us what exactly that is. This should be good. --107.77.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 5:00 PM
Certainly, I do not know all about it, JAC. But, close family members who work in the industry know stuff.
And, no, I don't care to be anybody's sparing partner on the interwebs, JAC. --70.92.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 6:16 PM
If you live in province where the Liberals closed down coal fired generating stations then installed gas turbine generating stations for peak demand. Only two per cent of power is from green sources which are solar and wind. The Liberals even proposed to ban gas boilers and furnaces. They call it global energy then where is global energy coming from not China or Korea. In 2005 installed a demand gas water heater which only fires when hot water is required, natural gas stove and natural gas clothes dryer which rarely use as front load washing machine spins out most of the water where after half to a day everything is dry. When a metal roof was installed connected exhaust vent hood in kitchen to where everything is exhausted outside so what is the problem here other will not be forced to buy the expensive electricity which in not completely green. Niagara Falls is only a third along Candu Nuclear heavy water reactors then the remaining from gas turbines which burn natural gas. The leftist want live in a world that does not exist where it is easy to be a critic when they have accomplished absolutely nothing. They even want to ban the EPA rated wood stove for heating as this is free heat along with do not have to pay the dumb carbon tax to fund social programs. The high efficiency gas furnace is 96.1 per cent efficient which operates on sealed combustion where outside air is used for combustion. Some countries are proposing they use existing infrastructure then mix with hydrogen or completely hydrogen where will burn cleaner then natural gas. There even penalties for going green if install solar panels on roof and stucco with insulation on outside of house property taxes go up. The socialist say is happy paying more taxes then having more income for those who do not want to work or learn a trade. No conditions just sit home drink beer. In the end would rather pay $50 dollars per month for electricity which includes the 13 HST tax then pay $120 to $180 for electricity like some houses do not use natural gas. It is going take time to completely install spray foam insulation in ceiling and more walls as the only way to do this is reduce costs for electricity and natural gas. --68.69.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Lana [IN]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 7:55 PM
Stupid is as stupid does. Takes a lot of gas and coal to support our grid power. Gas remains more efficient than electric and works with grid down. Renewable energy will never get there until we harvest the sun from orbit. --216.23.xxx.xx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 8:20 PM
That's not how civilzation works. If we took that approach we would still be cooking in the hearth and people would still be driving unsafe Model Ts. --72.49.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Lana [IN]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 10:13 PM
Exactly how it works. We would need to cover most of the landmass of the US with solar panels. Wrong approach. First thing is to cut need. When was the last time you used an electric dryer? You can't if you live off solar energy. I have used a clothes line for 20 years. I don't do laundry or shower until afternoon when my solar hot water is ready. I can go 3 days off my battery bank if there is no sun or wind to power my farm. Longer now that I have doubled my bank. Solar is by definition only by day and must be stored to fuel the night. But, our energy storage technology is not yet ready for massive energy sinks. Wind? The power output varies by the CUBE of the wind velocity. Most of the time you get very little power, but at high winds you get way too much to store.
Alternative energy is not ready for prime time. We will be ready when the lights of Vegas go off and nobody uses energy sucking appliances anymore. I have made sustainable living a long term goal and have spent two decades living a sustainable life with a hybrid wind solar system I love dearly., It is a sacrifice of convenience.
Amazing you should mention the model T. It was an engineering marvel using compressed hemp fiber for its chassis and running on pressed hemp oil....very much ahead of its time and efficient. --216.23.xxx.xx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 10:19 PM
Buildings can modified to be net zero or built to net zero where well insulated where no connection to grid. Here housing accounts for 19 per cent of green house gasses. Steel plants can use electric or hydrogen for heat. When was making energy efficient improvements to apartment buildings or house never used government programs as avoided property tax increases. LED lighting was installed for hallways, exit signs along with motion sensors and photo cells which turn off during the day. The electric stove was put in apartment buildings and electric dryer was sold. The energy consuming direct fired tank was a rental where put in truck then sent back to rental company. After 5 years they dispose. A average direct fired tank water heater has a open flue where in standby mode no hot water is used 7 to 12 degrees go up flue where demand or tank less has zero energy consumption as only fires when hot water is required. One apartment building had a million BTU heating system where reduced that 400,000 BTU where 60 per cent was taken out. The high efficiency boilers heated indirect hot water tank.0.6 degree heat loss when no hot water is required. All the lights in house are LED except for gas stove and vent hood as high heat environment. --68.69.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Jac [OH]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 10:45 PM
Oklahoma has 300 wind turbines. For something that doesn't work someone is spending alot of money to build them. --72.49.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by John... [MI]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 11:06 PM
I'm in Michigan -- not a real windy place at all. They put up about 50 wind turbines last year and they are working great. This idea that you need high winds for them to work or that "most of the time you get very little power" is simply not accurate. At least, not for large, commercial turbines.
Also, for the large, commercial ones, you don't HAVE to store the power long term. Most of these feed back into the Consumer's Electric grid from what I understand so that the power can be distributed fairly widely without much need for storage.
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Lana [IN]) Posted on: Apr 24, 2022 11:14 PM
Hard to count the number of times my wind turbine has been down for repair. Wind destroys everything you put in it's way. Google..."Graveyard of wind turbine blades". Landfills across the US are filling up.
Ahhh, the Law of Unintended Consequence is brutal. Turbines are VERY high maintenance. Solar panels very low maintenance. The alternative energy push is simply another corporate pork barrel feeding frenzy. Billions will be fed into solar/wind projects, but will it end with usable renewable energy? Are we going to feed that lovely energy into an aging grid system?
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2022 9:17 AM
Gas stoves, like ventless gas heaters, have to burn 99%+ "clean" to avoid killing the occupants of the place that use them. Therefore, I was having a hard time with anyone claiming they are "dirty / not green."
That said, I believe in doing my due diligence, so I read this article. Take a look. Obviously some legit concerns here.
Now what I do NOT know is how the leaks, incomplete combustion, etc compare to the green houses gases created by the coal fired plants that still produce well over 50% of the US grid electricity and the manufacturing process for solar panels, wind turbines, batteries, inverters, meters, and thousands of extra miles of transmission lines to carry added capacity to replace all of them. Sadly, this isn't a zero sum game, nor is our infrastructure even close to ready to handle it. My guess is, without several trillion dollars "invested" (i.e. spent...let's be honest enough to call it what it is, shall we?) we won't be ready to swap over to electric stove any time in the next 1-2 decades.
Think about it: over 30% of currently available US housing stock is over 50 years old. Most of those aren't going to have the necessary wiring and electric service panels capacity to pull out a gas water heater or stove (might as well do both, right?) without being upgraded to code. Some houses have already been upgraded: fair enough. But I have 5 out of my 31 residential units that have gas stoves/water heaters and will need to be entirely retro fit for electric appliances. They are on fuse boxes or outdated breaker panels with no way to wire in two additional 220 V dedicated circuits. Last time I priced an upgrade to code (required) it was $3,000 for these little 2 bed houses....and that was before the Rona drove pricing up on everything. My guess today? $4000 seems reasonable, probably low!
So there's $15,000 shall we say spent to accomplish what is already being accomplished: cooking and heating water. Not a lot of incentive to do that, is there, other than to be a good citizen of the Earth. There are other land lords in my town with hundreds of these units. Their costs will make mine look like chump change.
So what's going to happen? The US Govt will probably created out of thin air a crap ton more money like they did during the Rona and offer tax credits, incentives, etc (freebies!), which will result in higher inflation, etc.
Plus...we'll probably need about 50,000 or so more qualified electricians, at a time when the trades are seeing record retirements with few replacements. Congress can print all the money they want: that doesn't magically whisk new electricians into existence. Look for salaries to rise. $200/hour, anyone? Then gotta mine all that copper for wires and components. Rare earth materials for battery banks, etc.
Then we've got third world/developing countries (India, China) who are producing green house gases by the billion tons. They do not seem too concerned with cutting emissions. Sure, the US can help, but how do we get them on board is a question yet to be answered.
There is no free lunch.
Some day the world will be (mostly) all electric. As fossil fuels get more expensive to extract, we will reach a point where economically it will make more sense to switch to electricity. How we get there and when is up for debate. So rest easy, ye worriers of climate change. We're all doing our part but it is going to take some time. How about do something productive and go bug those nutters who say we shouldn't be using nuclear, which from what I read is by far the safest source of electrical power with fewer deaths per 100,000 industry workers and is far more dependable and has the scalability needed for consistent, clean energy?
Meanwhile, as Ben Shapiro says, we humans will need to work on more adaptive strategies. Humans suck at mitigation, but we're pretty good at adaptation. Staying put in X spot isn't guaranteed to anyone. Adjust, adapt, overcome.
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2022 9:18 AM
Correction: Coal accounts for approximately 38% of US electric production. Fossil fuels all together comprise over 50% aggregate. --184.4.xx.xx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by WMH [NC]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2022 9:34 AM
Wasn't mean to start a "green" discussion. I skimmed that part, and went straight to the health concerns. I don't like gas, I can smell it no matter what, so I know it leaks tiny bits. If you have an asthmatic kid, might be something to think about. ] --50.82.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2022 10:01 AM
We already create money out of thin air for established highly profitable industries like oil to the tune of taxpayers subsidies of 4B per year. Oh and by the way they make record profits every year, even in recessions and depressions Our migration from dirty power will eliminate generation sources that pollute the air and water with carcinogens, heavy metals and air particulates and reduce greenhouse gases. It will also diversify and distribute our power generation capabilities adding redundancy and resiliency. This will also modernize how we generate power. The grid will be upgraded in sections as these newer sources come online. Do you honestly think that an 80 year old coal plant doesn't have daily if not hourly maintenance issues? The power turbine in your back yard is not the same power turbine in use in wind farms just like your grampies model T is not the modern vehicle in your garage today. --72.49.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2022 10:51 AM
Electric also has health concerns. Remember all the warnings to not have cell phone or alarm clock next to your bed? All those waves.....( oh, no!)
This reminds me of the 1980s when asbestos became the big bad guy? Then some studies were done that showed that fiberglass insulation was every bit as dangerous. But, oops! Fiberglass insulation was in almost every home in America, and, without it, we'd have one heck of an energy crisis. And, if fiberglass is as dangerous as asbestos, and fiberglass is in most homes.....maybe asbestos isn't just going to kill us on sight ? But that doesn't mean we should play with it. Use care.
In other words, we can worry, worry, worry over every little thing, or we can just get on with life. Politicians like to keep us worried, so they can claim to do something. Lawyers too. Its what lines THEIR pockets.
That doesn't mean we should be reckless. I wear my well-fitting mask and other protective gear when working around any dusty stuff that can get in my lungs, spread dropcloths to catch any stray bits ( I've found that old blankets and flannel sheets 'grab and hold' particles better than plastic sheeting) I even spread a clean bedspread on the floor of my living room as my grandkids are learning to crawl to prevent baby's inhalation of dust mite droppings. ( Once thought to be associated with Kowasaki syndrome, if I recall... might have the name wrong, been 30 years since the pediatrician warned of letting my infant son crawl on carpet, especially freshly shampooed carpets. ) Many of my family gets asthma from cats. Should cats be banned? I still allow them in my rentals; I just will wear a mask at turnover cleaning, if I think I need it. Only one tenant so far has a cat, and she keeps that house so clean that the furnace filters barely need changing.
I tend to burn more things when I cook with electric. I've never been accused of being a great cook on any day, but I do better with gas. Burned foods potentially/ possibly give of carcinogens.... oh-hoh! We keep our gas lines tight, but, of course, there is a burst of gas as the burners ignite, and there are combustion gasses... so, we ventilate.
In other words, there is always SOMETHING to worry about. Politicians and lawyers love to have us worried. News media too. --70.92.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2022 12:15 PM
JAC, just to give you something to lookup, I was wrong about the polarity of sun itself being the problem. It does that fairly regularly. Its Carrington -events or mebbe coronal mass ejections? that we should not worry about. You'll find it interesting. Most of it goes over my wee little brain.
Anyway, we need to upgrade infrastucture. And, as the pandemic should have taught us, a little self-sufficiency is good. Back in the 90s, we lived in an area where all electric houses were popular. We were grateful for our gas fireplace when a major snow storm took down power lines. Our house before that had a wood fireplace, which was used a time or two during a power outage.
But, certainly, if one is sensitive to chemicals, especially gas, then one should avoid it. I like having options, and back ups. --70.92.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2022 2:54 PM
Hmmm green agenda forcing people to use electric power from coal powered steam plant.
Am I missing something? --24.101.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2022 2:57 PM
Hmmm people stuck in the 19th century slowing down societal improvements. Nope you are not missing anything. --72.49.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by MAP [NY]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2022 6:28 PM
The gov't is spending oodles of $$ to subsidize wind turbines and solar panels. Somehow clear cutting "old growth" forests is ok when you are doing it to put in the above.
Those turbines are bird killers and contain boatloads of OIL in their base. They cannot be recycled when they break down.
Solar panels lose their effectiveness over the years. And need constant maintenance and cleaning. --72.231.xxx.xx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2022 6:35 PM
I also hear that living near wind farms causes cancer. Everything can be recycled if the economics are correct. Give me a break. --72.49.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by zero [IN]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2022 6:40 PM
Semi-local college installed a wind turbine a few years back. It killed more bats each night than birds throughout.
Bats eat more bugs than I want around.
They ended up flushing the project after a few years. Guess it didn't save enough to make it worth it.
I sure hope the big farms don't have the same problems. All I know is what I learned from the locals. --107.147.xx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2022 8:20 PM
I find it interesting how we pick up one thing that MIGHT have a negative health effect at a rate similar to being struck by lightning and want to legislate it. At the same time, these same individuals stand in the way of border control which would curb the influx of illegal drugs which WILL save the lives of thousands every year in this country. --209.205.xxx.xx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2022 8:52 PM
I think JAC just hit on the answer. If everything can be recycled with the right economics then we just need to recycle green house gases rather than eliminating cheap gas. --209.205.xxx.xx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Posted on: Apr 25, 2022 10:26 PM
Those are called scrubbers and have been in place for years. If only there was a regulatory organization to police and punish those industries that cheat on their emissions instead having carte Blanche to pollute at will. --107.77.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by tryan [MA]) Posted on: Apr 26, 2022 9:53 AM
Geez ... my SFs have 100 amp service. An electric stove is not an option. Looks like there will be plenty of used gas stoves going forward! --206.84.xx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by tryan [MA]) Posted on: Apr 26, 2022 9:56 AM
FWIW ... my last stove fire was on an electric stove. The dude left a pot cooking on the stove and went to a BBQ. Can't fix stupid ...lol --206.84.xx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Apr 26, 2022 1:11 PM
Well JAC I guess you nailed it. We just need someone to sweep in and nail those greedy, lying capitalists that are providing cheap gas to the wall. Maybe we could create a new gubermint department to do just that, protecting the environment. Maybe we could call it the Environmental Protection Agency. You know it would be successful since everything gubermint and left wing political is good and efficient and completely absent of greed and lying like those capitalists. Life could be so much better if we just all worked for the government who owns and runs everything, that would be a great social structure. Hey, maybe we could call it socialism. That's never been tried before, I bet it would work. JAC, I think you should run for president, you are so smart. --209.205.xxx.xx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Hoosier [IN]) Posted on: Apr 26, 2022 2:00 PM
The findings in themselves are not sufficient IMO to ban gas stoves. They need to do a comparison of the drawbacks to the byproducts of producing more electricity for electric ranges. If the electricity is produced using some "dirty" method, it may be just as harmful for the environment.
Of course I'm sure someone will recommend that "green" sources be used for any future grid expansion. But with electric cars coming on board too, I don't now if our grid can grow fast enough! --99.92.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by Lana [IN]) Posted on: Apr 26, 2022 5:34 PM
Yup, Mike. I am sure JAC matches the current office holder in mental acuity. --216.23.xxx.xx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by JAC [OH]) Posted on: Apr 26, 2022 6:05 PM
Aww now don't be mean. Learn from your mistakes when you get owned. --72.49.xxx.xxx
Gas Stoves - who knew? (by mike [CA]) Posted on: May 6, 2022 2:57 PM
PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGY, THIS SILLY BS SOUNDS LIKE A CALIFORNIA IDEA. everyday we redefine stupid here. again, sorry!