In approx. 1 week I will be closing on the 4/1 house that is across the street from my humble 2/1 bungalow house. The 4/1 house was originally built around 1973 which is good because it was wired using the 3-wire grounded Romex cable. However, this house still has the original fuse box with 6 screw-in round glass fuses in it. However, all of the 240 circuits are on breakers which are outside inside a metal box near the service entrance.

According to the current homeowner (seller), the electrical system in this house works just fine,..even with the ancient 100 amp screw-in fuse box circuits.

My question is: would you make any changes to the electrical systems of this house,...especially if you are planning on adding some additional circuits? For example, house needs GFCI outlets installed in the kitchen and bath. The master bedroom could use some more wall outlets added to it.

My insurance company doesn't insure fuses, but if yours does -that style fuse if hard to cheat by a tenant.

It is absolutely time to do that upgrade. My question to you though is what are your intentions with the place?

I have a 3 unit with a mix of original fuses and some breakers similar to what you describe. No issues.

We have started replacing electrical panels, service, upping amps, gfi and mask as soon as we close. Also plumbing under dinks and such... As soon as we close and before any move in.

Happy house happy life.

My first intention with this house to make a rental house out of it. However, like the house I rehabbed 2 years ago, I went way over budget and the only way to recoup my out of control rehab spending was to sell the house.

I have done a lot of electrical work over the years residential and light commercial.

Do what your Master Electrician suggests. That is the best solution. It will be money well spent.

Like Ken, I'm curious to hear what you got it for. This is the house that the owner supposedly had about $28,500 owed on it thru a 1st and 2nd, if I recall correctly, and he wanted $35K....

Electric work like that will need a full permit and upgrade to current code. In my area, that kind of work starts at $3500 for a small 2/1 house...probably more like $4000-$5000 for what you're talking.

My rule is I have to make my investment back in no less than 3 years. Can you charge enough added rent to pay back the cost? If yes, do it. If not, and it works fine, then don't.

P.S. These days I am avoiding all residential, but toward the end of my residential buying in 2019 I was avoiding fuse box houses. Although they are theoretically even safer than breakers, the risk there is not enough juice to meet modern demands for devices, stoves, microwaves, higher amp ranges, etc and tenants doing unsafe things. I would only buy them if the prices was stupid cheap enough to do the upgrade since insurance on them costs about double, if anyone will insure it at all!

Ken, yep...that's my subtle point. Tenants don't care about fuses or breakers. They care about "does my stuff work?"

When I priced the upgrade on a house, I found it would save me about $300 per year on insurance. $3,500 / $300 = 11.6 years payback. Too long. Not worth it. If/when it breaks, I'll swap out. Until then, it's not worth it.

Side-note: imagine how fun this is going to be when the greenies demand we stop using natural gas / oil to heat homes! Houses will all need 200 amp breakers...minimum...to run car chargers, electric furnaces, etc! I figure the Gub'mint will offer subsidies / tax incentives to do the upgrades. Wait until then and get all your upgrades done on your fellow taxpayer's dime!

Ken and Sid and others,

Using the no B.S. final offer approach that Sid suggested, I gave him my bottom line figure ($30K) and said I prefer us to split the closing cost. We both walked away with him saying "I will need to discuss this with my wife". Less than 24 hours later, I get a phone call saying they would accept my final offer. Now, if he had offered any resistance here, I would have suggested we split the difference at $32,500 but that was not necessary.

And if this house had been free and clear, I think I could have bought the house at $25K. This is a classic very

Electrical power from the utility company is never guaranteed 20/7. Meaning your tenants will have a power outage at some point. When that happens or when your tenants over load a circuit, who's going to pay for the fried HDTV, Game Station, Computer or appliance? You! Since your electrical system is not original or even upgraded to current standards. It is stuck in a time loop between the many owners and tenants.

MikeA has a good suggestion. is your intent is to subdivide and have separate utilities for the units? then you will need to put in a new panel or 2 anyway.

MikeA TX,

One thing I have not mentioned yet is this house is currently 80% electric and 20% natural gas. The kitchen stove uses gas and that stove in being removed right now. This house has an 18 year old Heat Pump on it using a 50 amp breaker for heat strips and another 30 amp breaker for A/C.

I would like to make this house all electric by adding a 40 amp electric stove outlet but there is no room left in the current small breaker box outside. The Heat Pump breakers are 'hogging the box' for available space.

Remember this house was originally built as 2/1 in 1973 and back then the 100 amp fuse panel was more than adequate for a 1973 homeowners electrical needs. In the mid-1980's,..2 additional large rooms were built on this house making it the 4/1 it is today. Those new rooms new additional outlets installed so that a tenant's monster big screen TV's can be plugged in and all other misc. electronic gadgets that can be plugged in without using an excessive number of those cheap power strip bars. Have you ever seen one power strip bar plugged into another power strip bar? This is what some tenants do.

Excellent observation with the change in tone and pitch in a voice. You can smell fear and despair.

You can almost taste victory........

Ray N PA,

Amen

Of all the skills I know, the art of negotiation has made me the most money. When I send out a post card campaign - I am expecting a small percentage to call, text, email or leave me a message on my website. All That marketing money is flushed down the toilet if you don't pick up the phone and have them talk.

OK as an aside to other arguments here concerning glass fuses,..you KNOW that there are inserts that you can screw into those sockets that are almost impossible to remove,.. that then will only allow whatever you chose on that circuit,..IE a 15amp insert that will ONLY allow a 15 (they are called TYPE S) fuse base to go in,..so,.you can't put a 20 amp or higher OR a penny in that socket/circuit..Sold at many hardware stores and certainly at electrical supply stores and of course Amazon,..

To me, they are safer than breaker switches that, as said here before, that can fail,.

A friend who is an electrician told me when they work in upper stories and want to cut the power to that circuit, to work on that circuit , will often purposely put wires together to short them out and trip/blow the fuse,..

And sometimes it doesn't trip or, it doesn't right away,.getting some very hot wires,..

Roy, you are explaining the reasons why I would do a quick flip.

Most likely aluminum wiring to all switches and receipts.

Upgrading electrical can and will be costly and creates no more value.

Dave,

From Roy,

"If glass fuses are safer than breakers, then why are breakers required by modern electrical codes? This safer argument for glass fuses does not make any sense here. My main problem with screw-in fuses is when a tenant puts a penny inside the hole and screws the blown fuse back in."

Roy did you miss the point about type S inserts and type s fuses?

why do modern codes required? well I can think of several reasons,.union pressure and expanded work?

But really no one can put a penny in a type S retrofit, can you ever take an insert out,..oh yeah but its a miserable task,..I can't imagine a tenant ever doing it. I would consider them permanent.

So you but an insert, rated whatever,.10.15.20 etc amp and a matching fuse,..you just screw the fuse into the insert, then screw the whole thing into where the old fuse socket is,..now you can back off the fuse but the insert stays,..and now you cannot put another fuse rated with a different amperage as the TYPE S bases rated for that amperage will ONLT fit into that new insert.

Steve,

I tell all of my tenants not to touch or open the breaker box on the outside of the house, even though some still do and then call me when they can't get the metal door to shut properly. And the last thing I would want a tenant to do is mess around with screw in fuses regardless of whether they have inserts or not. Class C & D tenants and anything dealing with an electrical panel is never a good combination and I think most insurance companies realize this too.

Ken,

In your area, if there was no basements, then where would the breaker box be? Most houses in C & D hoods here do not have basements. In modern A&B houses, you have full garages with breaker boxes inside, but no below grade basements.

Roy,

Interesting that a home built in 1973 was allowed fuses. I don’t know when National Fire Code was changed or when AL adopted it.

State Farm and others will not insure homes with fuses.

Me? If it ain’t broke…

Upgrade will not increase rents but it WILL increase salability and price.

Brad20K,

I will be biting the bullet and have a modern 200 amp breaker box installed for the reasons you gave. I like anything that increases the future salability of a house even though I may hold this house for the next 10 years. My humble 2/1 bungalow across the street was bought in 2008 and I have been in love with that house ever since.

Ken,

Roy, when you get the bid for updating the electrical panel from 100 amps to 200 amps would you mind sharing the cost ?

Locally I’m seeing projects double in price from what they used to be a couple of years ago.

Dave,

This will not be my first rodeo on getting a 200amp box installed. Several of my past fixer-uppers had wiring that a previous owner or tenant had made an attempt to re-wire the house and did a horrible job of it. Those houses had to be completely re-wired with a new 200 amp breaker box. I learned my lesson on those houses and I avoid buying those type houses again since they were so expensive to rehab.