frozen pipe
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frozen pipe (by Mark [NY]) Jan 22, 2022 12:53 PM
       frozen pipe (by plenty [MO]) Jan 22, 2022 12:56 PM
       frozen pipe (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Jan 22, 2022 1:15 PM
       frozen pipe (by Tony [NJ]) Jan 22, 2022 1:31 PM
       frozen pipe (by Richard [MI]) Jan 22, 2022 1:34 PM
       frozen pipe (by Dee Ann [WI]) Jan 22, 2022 1:36 PM
       frozen pipe (by Mark [NY]) Jan 22, 2022 1:47 PM
       frozen pipe (by Renne [TX]) Jan 22, 2022 2:26 PM
       frozen pipe (by Sir Walter [NC]) Jan 22, 2022 3:43 PM
       frozen pipe (by Mark [NY]) Jan 22, 2022 4:46 PM
       frozen pipe (by Allym [NJ]) Jan 22, 2022 4:52 PM
       frozen pipe (by Mark [NY]) Jan 22, 2022 5:16 PM
       frozen pipe (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Jan 22, 2022 7:36 PM
       frozen pipe (by myob [GA]) Jan 22, 2022 8:04 PM
       frozen pipe (by Mark [NY]) Jan 22, 2022 10:14 PM
       frozen pipe (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Jan 22, 2022 11:25 PM
       frozen pipe (by Lana [IN]) Jan 23, 2022 12:04 AM
       frozen pipe (by Small potatoes [NY]) Jan 23, 2022 1:04 AM
       frozen pipe (by Steve [MA]) Jan 23, 2022 7:45 AM
       frozen pipe (by Nellie [ME]) Jan 23, 2022 9:26 AM
       frozen pipe (by Busy [WI]) Jan 23, 2022 11:01 AM
       frozen pipe (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Jan 24, 2022 11:59 AM
       frozen pipe (by myob [GA]) Jan 24, 2022 1:55 PM
       frozen pipe (by Nellie [ME]) Jan 24, 2022 5:14 PM

frozen pipe (by Mark [NY]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 12:53 PM

We have a problem in one apt,.When it gets very cold and windy.,a pipe freezes that goes to the hot water of a shower,.We have tried many things. Putting as much insulation between the outer wall and the pipes as you can put, but under extreme weather it still can freeze (note its usually only the hot water side.)

So my handyman said in this supercold windy weather let it drip about once a second,.(shouldn't cost much?) but he pays for hot water ..electric and he blew up saying it was going to cost him money) I was thinking at a drop a second , would cost maybe a dollar a day. However he is really cheap and complains that he pays rent,..and shouldn't have to pay any extra,..BTW we haven't raised his rent in 3 years,..he wouldn't be able to find a nice of a unit from what he pays now,..but tenants never seem to recognize this,

I notice that all the news stations recommend just doing that,.have any pipes that service kitchens or baths in this weather to do a slow drip,..but Apparently he thinks it should be a landlord fix,

Near impossible in this unit to run new piping to the inside (other side of the shower)

frozen pipe (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 12:56 PM

Add a heat tape.

frozen pipe (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 1:15 PM

A lot depends on the insulation where fiber glass insulation has air pockets. Spray foam has the lowest heat transfer. Another option is to install loop with a pump where the water is moving with a pump. Third option is a 3/4" commercial Uponor pex pipe for the hot water where relocate the pipe away from exterior wall. Some buildings locate pipes in the exterior walls which is poor building practice. Pipes should located inside away from exterior walls. Fourth option but expensive is to install electric demand water heater in the rental unit where will 200 amp service. Demand water heater have no storage. Uponor commercial A type pex is the easiest to work with where will require a special expansion tool. A hand tool is less expensive. The cheaper crimp type B type will work where there are restrictions in the fittings. Mainly sold at the big box stores. View some videos on You Tube about A and B type pex piping along with how to install pex piping. One time when it was extremely cold the drain froze in the kitchen of the house where sprayed foamed now when it is extremely cold that problem never occurs again. It would be too difficult to bring in ABS drain pipe.

frozen pipe (by Tony [NJ]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 1:31 PM

Offer 1 $20/m discount in Feb and March. Then at end of April raise the rent by $50/m. Tell him you were flipping out about your costs going up yet they weren't passed on to him and you feel really foolish.

frozen pipe (by Richard [MI]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 1:34 PM

Put a clause in your lease that says: Landlord cannot guarantee pipes will not freeze in severe winter conditions. Tenant understands this and also understands that pipes will unfreeze when warmer conditions occur. In the meantime, while pipes are frozen, tenant is free to heat necessary water on the stove as needed. No accommodations will be expected by tenant or made by landlord for frozen pipes.

We landlords are not able to control extreme weather.

Using this tenants logic, a landlord would have to put them up in a hotel for the slightest inconvenience.


frozen pipe (by Dee Ann [WI]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 1:36 PM


I'm with Tony on this... --75.11.xx.xx

frozen pipe (by Mark [NY]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 1:47 PM

Some good ideas,.but can't really put in heat tape there,.

used "Great Stuff" polyurethane foam behind the pipes and the wall.

frozen pipe (by Renne [TX]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 2:26 PM

In Texas, it is a very common practice to let the faucets dip when freezing weather is expected, so this is from our lease and we have Residents sign this clause. We would rather spend $10 for increased water usage than a huge bill for broken pipes.

_________________ Cold Weather Precautions: When temperature conditions are expected to be 32 degrees or colder, please leave your inside hot and cold-water faucets dripping in all sinks, bathtubs and showers. Please open the sink cabinet doors to allow warm air to circulate around pipes. Please leave outside faucets dripping in a small stream.

If Residents pay for water and feel these common-sense precautions would be a financial hardship, notify XXX, LLC in writing and XXX, LLC will issue Residents a $10.00 check made payable to Local Water Company to help offset water costs.

If there are damages due to Residents not taking normal, common sense cold weather precautions, the cost of repair will be billed to Residents.

frozen pipe (by Sir Walter [NC]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 3:43 PM

I'm with Renne.

I have frequently sent cold weather notices to tenants with similar wording as in Renne's lease. It would be negligence on the tenant's part if they did not do take normal precautions.

I am assuming that your lease has a general statement about negligence. If so, send all tenants a similar notice, and post a notice in the building. That way, the issue is not directed at one tenant.

I am assuming that this is not a newly built apartment, but that the apartment building is new to you. Is this the first tenant in the apartment in winter since you have owned it?

frozen pipe (by Mark [NY]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 4:46 PM

No I have owned it since 1980, some years there has been no problem, the first few years (I would have to look it up) we had record cold for days, did freeze, and we opened up the wall and put the insulation in,..some years there were no problems,..other years the tenant wasn't upset as they probably lived through the same when they lived elsewhere or in their own home.

frozen pipe (by Allym [NJ]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 4:52 PM

I have a pipe to the tenants' washer that will freeze up with low double digits and wind. It's under a cabinet top but the small piece is removable. I call him up and ask him to remove that small section of counter top when that's predicted and he does and that works.Plumber found the spot but it cost me a couple hundred dollars since he started looking in the basement. I know you can't do that so I would go with the $20 a month discount to let the water drip in the colder months. I was at Lake Placid once in super cold weather. Skiing was horrible and it was brutal there. --108.24.xx.xx

frozen pipe (by Mark [NY]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 5:16 PM

You know it doesn't seem to get as cold in the last decade or two,'s was -10 windchill last night,..on this day the record actual temp was -21 in 1962. I remember Christmas Eve around 1980 something,.. the wind chill was -35 in Albany,.actual temp around -20,.with some wind...I had to travel in it, and the car never did warm up inside much,

I remember talking to a AAA road service guy who also had to be out in it,.he said with some cars no matter what they did,..battery jump and either spray ,..some just would not start,..maybe because the oil was thick and people had not changed to winter/or synthetic oil,

I remember that any exposed skin felt like demons biting at them,..

frozen pipe (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 7:36 PM

Lowest cost option is to install a cold and hot water pipe in the interior away from exterior walls along with installing pipe insulation. Pipe insulation from the hot water tank will increase the temperature of the hot water going up to the fixtures. A 3/4" or 1 " pex with pipe insulation will be difficult to freeze. If pex goes up further in the interior then the freeze problem is resolved once and for all. A type pex bends more easily along with can be used in a commercial application. Last time was at Lowes where they had A type pex along with special manual expansion tool. Most plumbing supply carry A type pex where the B type is sold at the big box stores which uses the crimps. For vehicles use what is on oil cap or owners manual. Most newer use a overhead cam engine where the oil should be pumped right away to reduce wear on valve train. Push rod engines are becoming a thing of the past. Just changed oil where using 0w 20 all year round. Finally with pex going into rental unit then is easy to install a separate water meter where can buy at Amazon.

frozen pipe (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 8:04 PM

plenty has got the fix.

frozen pipe (by Mark [NY]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 10:14 PM


did you notice that I can't do that in this case?

Robert, I have fixed a number of problems with PEX,..but it would be impossible to use it in this case

Going to try to open the side of the shower and put in a vent,..hoping it will allow more heat into the area,

frozen pipe (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Jan 22, 2022 11:25 PM

Never had a problem with pex where avoided the B type pex that is sold at the big box stores. Pipe insulation will help and what insulation is available behind shower. I am going to rip most of copper pipe in basement bathroom then manifold where one 3/4" pex will feed bathtub, basin and toilet. The lower bathroom has a false ceiling where going tear out then bring up the level of top. Now insulating walls where there are seven inch studs where installing 6" and 1" board insulation where that wall is next to garage. Never had a problem with pipes freezing in house except the kitchen drain which is eliminated since spray foam. The house used the garbage fiber glass insulation where when tear out the fiber glass insulation is full of mold.

frozen pipe (by Lana [IN]) Posted on: Jan 23, 2022 12:04 AM

I have a cold weather list in Lease. Plug in heat tape, set drip, etc. Where I have high risk pipes and things tenant needs to do(i.e., I have a tenant who cannot keep his garage door up for his cat or half bath freezes up), then I share the costs of frozen pipes with tenant.

frozen pipe (by Small potatoes [NY]) Posted on: Jan 23, 2022 1:04 AM

you need to stop the wind if you think that is the problem. Roxul is excellent for stuffing in cavaties. pink insulation is garbage. you've lucked out if the pipe has withstood freezing over the years.

frozen pipe (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: Jan 23, 2022 7:45 AM

I've gotten good results by wrapping the pipes with foam insulations then either filling the stud / joist bays with either Roxul, dense packed cellulose or spray foam insulation. You also need to seal up any cracks which let the wind blow into the pipe area.

Hot water freezes faster than cold water is explained by looking up "The Mpemba Effect" which is named after the high school student who proved it was true using first ice cream & then water.

frozen pipe (by Nellie [ME]) Posted on: Jan 23, 2022 9:26 AM

I see that you are planning on doing what my thought was. To install a vent on the heated side of the wall cavity. My guess would be that it is a wind problem. Does the pipe freeze near a sill? Maybe you need to seal all the cracks in the sill. We spray foamed a basement and the pipes for the baseboard heat froze. The tenant had turned the heat down when she was away so the water wasnít circulating and there was no heat getting to the pipe from the warm side. And the big heaters the plumber brought didnít work because of the insulation on the warm side.

frozen pipe (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jan 23, 2022 11:01 AM

Nellie mentioned the sill....There are temporary sealants that can be used if a window needs to be sealed just for winter. Either the old rope caulk, which is still around, or weatherization caulk that is applied with a caulk gun. I use that caulk gun stuff when installing window A/Cs. Comes off easily again in fall.

I like the idea of putting a permanent vent in there. Hardware stores carry metal screening material with decorative designs that work well. Hard to find in the stores sometimes, but they all have it.

For a different long term fix ( $$$) perhaps changing a tub shower combo to shower only, or, use one of those special order short tubs. The ones that only accommodate bathing children; adults shower only. Thus yielding the space to bring plumbing away from the outer walls. Just an idea ( didn't mean to throw all your money around, just wanted to get you thinking of other permanent fixes. Maybe another idea will come up...)

frozen pipe (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Jan 24, 2022 11:59 AM

The laws of thermodynamics are what cause the HOT water to freeze before the cold water. The rate of loss is greater on hot than cold.....but rest assured, you are close to having a frozen cold water line too.

Do you know where the cold area is coming in at?

frozen pipe (by myob [GA]) Posted on: Jan 24, 2022 1:55 PM

Mark if you can get insulation in the area you can get a heat strip in there. You don't need to wrap the pipe-- you need to heat the bay the pipe runs through.

Mark there is no such thing as CAN'T--

frozen pipe (by Nellie [ME]) Posted on: Jan 24, 2022 5:14 PM

Just thought of this. Is there a cast iron vent pipe near the line that freezes? We had house where the supply lines ran up to the second floor in the same interior bay as the cast iron vent. Never had a frozen pipe until I insulated around the CI on the second floor. So that CI radiated the cold down through to the first floor and froze the pipes there. Pipe insulation around the supply lines solved this problem.

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