What day is midnight? (by Fabric Gal [CA]) Jan 11, 2022 9:57 PM|
What day is midnight? (by Deanna [TX]) Jan 11, 2022 10:20 PM
What day is midnight? (by dino [CA]) Jan 12, 2022 12:41 AM
What day is midnight? (by Robert J [CA]) Jan 12, 2022 5:57 AM
What day is midnight? (by Steve [MA]) Jan 12, 2022 6:14 AM
What day is midnight? (by Busy [WI]) Jan 12, 2022 9:46 AM
What day is midnight? (by David [MI]) Jan 12, 2022 9:49 AM
What day is midnight? (by MikeA [TX]) Jan 12, 2022 11:20 AM
What day is midnight? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Jan 12, 2022 11:46 AM
What day is midnight? (by Fabric Gal [CA]) Jan 12, 2022 12:30 PM
What day is midnight? (by Kim [TX]) Jan 12, 2022 1:16 PM
What day is midnight? (by Mike45 [NV]) Jan 12, 2022 4:04 PM
What day is midnight? (by MAT [PA]) Jan 12, 2022 9:12 PM
What day is midnight? (by don [PA]) Jan 13, 2022 9:22 PM
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What day is midnight? (by Fabric Gal [CA]) Posted on: Jan 11, 2022 9:57 PM
You may recall I am terminating the tenancy for my recently purchased SFH. The tenants were given proper notice within the proper legal time frame, etc, and special thanks to you here who advised me of wording and what needed to be included.
I always thought midnight (which is a.m. & not p.m., because p.m. is noon) was the beginning of the "next" day, i.e. there's Christmas Eve, and then Christmas Day begins at midnight (which means it's no longer Christmas Eve, & so Midnight Mass counts for the obligation to attend Mass on Christmas).
Their lease states: The lease term begins on 02/01/2021 (hereinafter referred to as "Commencement Date") and shall terminate at 12o'clock midnight on 02/01/22. Lessee shall vacate the premises upon termination of the agreement..."
So what day is midnight? Is midnight considered 12:00:01 a.m. on Feb. 1, or is midnight considered 11:59:59 p.m. on Feb. 1? According to the dates on the lease, does the tenant get an entire day on Feb 1 for vacating?
Sometimes, I get challenged about fractions, too! lolam!
When exactly is the tenant out of the property? --68.8.xxx.xxx
What day is midnight? (by Deanna [TX]) Posted on: Jan 11, 2022 10:20 PM
I usually make things end at, like, 5 pm on a particular day, just to avoid that problem. :P
If someone was moving in at midnight on February 1st, I think their natural assumption would be that it's 12:00:01 in the morning. But if someone had to be out at midnight on February 1st, I think they would expect they had until two seconds after 11:59:59 pm.
So, yeah. 5 pm for me if I'm finishing something, and when-the-papers-get-signed-and-funds-get-paid when I'm starting something. :) --137.118.xx.xxx
What day is midnight? (by dino [CA]) Posted on: Jan 12, 2022 12:41 AM
To avoid just the type of confusion you are talking about, I have seen documents from major corporations (with expensive lawyers) use a one year period, for example, February 1, 2022 at 12:01 am as the beginning of a time period and February 1, 2023 at 12:01 am as the end of a time period.
However I believe it would be totally correct to create a lease for a period of one year which omitted any reference to time such as beginning on February 1, 2022 and having the last day be January 31, 2023. Inherent in that format is that the renter is entitled to the full 24 hour day of February 1, 2022 and also entitled to the full 24 hour day of January 31, 2023.
To avoid any problem though, I make the keys available one day or sooner before the first date of the lease so tenant could not have any complaint about having missed out on a few hours of rental.
Lastly, I believe that legally when they turn over the keys at move out, for example, at 4 pm on January 31, 2023, they cannot claim any right to a portion of that day being prorated back to them since they have already used a portion of the day which they must therefore pay for in its entirety, not to mention that they have chosen to vacate at that time.
As to the actual meaning of midnight, I believe it is the beginning of the next day. So, midnight of February 1 2022 is the beginning of February 1, 2022. So, no, the tenant does not get an extra freebie day for vacating.
What day is midnight? (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Jan 12, 2022 5:57 AM
When I write my term lease for 1 year, I list the started date as February 01, 2021 and concludes January 31, 2022. Meaning they need to be out at 11:59:59 PM, 1 second before the strike of midnight.
What day is midnight? (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: Jan 12, 2022 6:14 AM
Like Deanna, all of my rental agreements end at 5:00PM & not at midnight. Their tenancy starting date & time as well as their tenancy ending date & time are all written in their rental agreement. Whenever I send them a notice to terminate their present rental agree along with the offer of a new tenancy (a MA specific requirement), a notice of nonrenewal or an acknowledgement of them terminating their rental agreement, I always include a copy of the ending provision. --71.174.xx.xxx
What day is midnight? (by Busy [WI]) Posted on: Jan 12, 2022 9:46 AM
If the same month and day are included, with different years, then lease is for a year and one day.
In Wisconsin, that puts one in a whole different category. One year doesn’t include same day twice.
Sounds like you might have inherited a lease for a year and a day… For one year, should have ended 1/31/2022…. In my non-expert opinion. --70.92.xxx.xxx
What day is midnight? (by David [MI]) Posted on: Jan 12, 2022 9:49 AM
Robert J, I dont find it practical to have a lease end in the middle of the night. You have tenants who will either move out at 11:59pm or be wrapping up at crack of dawn.
I put a specific time, 10am or 2pm or 5pm, usually the same time of day the lease starts. --50.4.xxx.x
What day is midnight? (by MikeA [TX]) Posted on: Jan 12, 2022 11:20 AM
The way I read it, the lease is for 1 year and 1 second, not 1 year and 1 day. I probably would have been better to say it ends at 11:59 on Jan 31. --209.16.xx.xxx
What day is midnight? (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Jan 12, 2022 11:46 AM
Or you could say "before midnight of the 30th of June". Or whatever date. Or maybe "by the end of the 30th of June" --76.178.xxx.xxx
What day is midnight? (by Fabric Gal [CA]) Posted on: Jan 12, 2022 12:30 PM
Yes I inherited the lease.
I've given the tenants two different notices recently. One notice was for non-renewal, and one was information regarding their right for a preliminary inspection, at their request and within a timeline, including the rationale as to why a prelim inspection is a good idea relative to the Security Deposit.
I've always included "the final day of your tenancy is January 31, 2022" in those notices.
Thanks again everyone!!
What day is midnight? (by Kim [TX]) Posted on: Jan 12, 2022 1:16 PM
I have one son born at 12 midnight, October 20 and one born at 12:02 am, October 20- same day! We had to check to be sure, because originally the nurse wrote 12 midnight, October 19... --23.30.xx.xxx
What day is midnight? (by Mike45 [NV]) Posted on: Jan 12, 2022 4:04 PM
I do not specify a time, so there is no confusion. And if I did specify a time, it would be sometime between noon and 5:00 p.m. Generally, I will not be meeting with a tenant between the hours of 6 p.m. and 6 a.m. either to give them keys on move-in or to get keys on move-out. --76.4.xxx.xxx
What day is midnight? (by MAT [PA]) Posted on: Jan 12, 2022 9:12 PM
We all yell “Happy New Year!” at 12:00:00, so midnight is the start of the new day. So the way I read it, January 31 is their last day in the unit. I could easily see why someone might think that they have February 1st, too. If you can’t have a reasonable conversation with the tenants, (ands some here might disagree with me), then I’d probably just show up with my tools ready to start rehab on the morning of February 2. As long as they’re gone, one day ain’t gonna make a big deal to me in my turnover plans. --100.34.x.xx
What day is midnight? (by don [PA]) Posted on: Jan 13, 2022 9:22 PM
Just specify noon instead of midnight. No one should be moving in or out in the middle of the night anyway. Also, midnight is not AM nor PM and neither is noon AM or PM. There is midnight, AM, noon, PM. Midnight and noon are the dividers. --73.141.xxx.xxx
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