egress / legality
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egress / legality (by #22 [MO]) Nov 29, 2021 9:21 PM
       egress / legality (by Steve [MA]) Nov 29, 2021 10:52 PM
       egress / legality (by RB [MI]) Nov 29, 2021 10:57 PM
       egress / legality (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Nov 29, 2021 11:46 PM
       egress / legality (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Nov 30, 2021 7:22 AM
       egress / legality (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Nov 30, 2021 9:36 AM
       egress / legality (by #22 [MO]) Nov 30, 2021 9:37 AM
       egress / legality (by S i d [MO]) Nov 30, 2021 9:46 AM
       egress / legality (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Nov 30, 2021 9:58 AM
       egress / legality (by plenty [MO]) Nov 30, 2021 10:11 AM
       egress / legality (by Larry [MN]) Nov 30, 2021 10:29 AM
       egress / legality (by plenty [MO]) Nov 30, 2021 10:46 AM
       egress / legality (by don [PA]) Nov 30, 2021 1:23 PM
       egress / legality (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Dec 5, 2021 12:25 AM
       egress / legality (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Dec 5, 2021 12:26 AM

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egress / legality (by #22 [MO]) Posted on: Nov 29, 2021 9:21 PM
Message:

If renting out an older home, with windows in bedrooms smaller than what meets code for egress, are those bedrooms grandfathered in or would they not be? Question is in terms of liability and legality / criminality.

I'm running into this a handful of times and keep seeing windows much smaller than what meets code for egress.

Curious to hear the boards experience on this. --23.126.xx.xxx




egress / legality (by Steve [MA]) Posted on: Nov 29, 2021 10:52 PM
Message:

Normally anything code wise or zoning wise that was legal at the time it was built is grandfathered. Once you start to renovate them, they would need to be brought into code compliance. --71.174.xx.xxx




egress / legality (by RB [MI]) Posted on: Nov 29, 2021 10:57 PM
Message:

Authority having jurisdiction. --24.151.xxx.xx




egress / legality (by Robert,OntarioCanada [ON]) Posted on: Nov 29, 2021 11:46 PM
Message:

In the event of a serious fire egress is important where install larger windows before renting out. If there is a major cost involved then amortize that cost into rent where 3 to 5 year to pay off. With tenants all it takes a careless smoker or space heater plugged in then a fire is started. Safety first no matter the cost. Before there were very few building and fire codes where now there are many. Installing windows would cost a lot less then installing a Uponor pex sprinkler system. Here insurance companies will not insure a house unless the electrical service is brought to 200 amp circuit breaker system. Also look at the wiring in the house where tenants will often install a larger fuse then the wire overheats. --99.236.xxx.xxx




egress / legality (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Nov 30, 2021 7:22 AM
Message:

I am going back a ways but I believe it is 10 ft of space that is required in glass area.

I have found a valid work around and had the local building code official give it the green light.

He explained to me that on a double hung window the area to crawl out was based on the window opening thus the requirement for the windows to be be at least a certain size (2 ft by 2.5ft but don't quote me as I am going back about 25-28 years).

I was telling this to an Amish worker of mine and he took us to the Amish window maker. The window maker was able to build a replacement window that didn't move up and down. Rather it was held in place by clips. The clips went from the vinyl on the window to the vinyl window sash. After releasing the clips the window pulled out.

The BCO was impressed and gave the Amish builder a letter authorizing the construction and use this window design.

Are there many Amish where you are at? --24.101.xxx.xxx




egress / legality (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Nov 30, 2021 9:36 AM
Message:

I wouldn't own a rental that did not have usable egress from each bedroom.

"Not to code" doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't big enough to crawl out of. You can ask your local building permit people about grandfathering, but at a minimum make sure there is a fire exit from each room. --76.178.xxx.xxx




egress / legality (by #22 [MO]) Posted on: Nov 30, 2021 9:37 AM
Message:

If I recall egress calls for 5.7 sf of opening space. Minimum 2ft width and height. It can be done with smaller windows when a casement or hopper window is used...I was wondering out the potential risk of civil or criminal liability. May older houses don't meet the more recent egress codes. I can't think of one I remodeled 10 years ago that did... --174.209.xxx.xxx




egress / legality (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Nov 30, 2021 9:46 AM
Message:

#22, with the kind of work you do, I'd just go ahead and make sure at least one window meets code. The costs are minimal. The last thing you want on your conscience and in the news paper is your name in a headline for not having proper fire escape and a person burns to death. "It was grandfathered in" might keep you out of legal liability, but like many recent news stories, the mob will make up its mind outside of court and cause you more problems than will be solved by leaving it "as is".

My thought is today, to avoid legal exposure, time, and infamy, one should just consider any older house a gut to the studs rehab. New wiring, new plumbing, the whole 9-yards. Either that or do the minimal rehab and just sell it "as is" with all faults. --108.230.xxx.xx




egress / legality (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Nov 30, 2021 9:58 AM
Message:

Is this just one bedroom?

What prevents this from being a 2 BR with an office? --24.101.xxx.xxx




egress / legality (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Nov 30, 2021 10:11 AM
Message:

Few of my Brick houses have two window in first or main floor bedrooms.. they are up a bit higher that I would like if I had to exscape in an emergency. They were built this way, blocks and streets if them. If in a basement it would not meet egress code. Since the homes are brick it would not be an easy change. My residents love these windows as they feel more secure for everyday living. --172.58.xxx.xx




egress / legality (by Larry [MN]) Posted on: Nov 30, 2021 10:29 AM
Message:

Egress window standards can vary city to city. Don't go by anything you read here as far as dimensions go.

If it was to code when it was installed it should be grandfathered in. But if you are saying MUCH smaller I would have a concern it never met code. --68.46.xx.xxx




egress / legality (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Nov 30, 2021 10:46 AM
Message:

st.louis county egress code can be found on line. --172.58.xxx.xx




egress / legality (by don [PA]) Posted on: Nov 30, 2021 1:23 PM
Message:

Ray---Why not just use a crank out window? --73.141.xxx.xxx




egress / legality (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Dec 5, 2021 12:25 AM
Message:

#22,

Locally a LL buddy sold an old house. The inspector had signed off and buddy had a copy.

Under the new owner the house had a fire, a person was injured (minor but it drew major attention and investigation). They went back to my buddy, accused him of making bad repairs which caused the fire. But the insoector had approved the repairs.

I understand that written approval by the building inspector was the one document that protected my buddy and the new owner.

We all get frustrated with inspectors but they take the hit if they approved it.

Windows: Always keep great relations with inspectors (I know you do!). I always call them and ask for their suggestions when in doubt.

MY inspectors in MY town say old windows etc are grandfathered. When installing replacement windows we can install the same size AND can be a few inches smaller to allow for needed trim, shims, etc.

BUT if we do significant remodel we mist upgrade to egress size.

Tip: for years we bought the replacement windows at Lowes. By removing a 3 stopper on the slide they qualified as egress. I believe the manufacturer intentionally installed this simple piece of snap in vinyl to force people into buying the next larger window.

Sad story: a teenage res died in our rental fire. The window was OK but it had a window AC blocking exit. We believe she died from smoke inhalation while she slept. She played flute along with my daughter in band.

BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx




egress / legality (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Dec 5, 2021 12:26 AM
Message:

PS. And up your liability insurance. The world is looking for a scapegoat.

BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx



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