Subject To Question
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Subject To Question (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Nov 16, 2021 9:41 PM
       Subject To Question (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Nov 16, 2021 9:42 PM
       Subject To Question (by Nicole [PA]) Nov 16, 2021 10:21 PM
       Subject To Question (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Nov 16, 2021 11:08 PM
       Subject To Question (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Nov 16, 2021 11:40 PM
       Subject To Question (by Robert J [CA]) Nov 17, 2021 12:23 AM
       Subject To Question (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Nov 17, 2021 7:22 AM
       Subject To Question (by plenty [MO]) Nov 17, 2021 7:59 AM
       Subject To Question (by Ken [NY]) Nov 17, 2021 8:58 AM
       Subject To Question (by 6x6 [TN]) Nov 17, 2021 9:22 AM
       Subject To Question (by Ken [NY]) Nov 17, 2021 11:35 AM
       Subject To Question (by Nicole [PA]) Nov 17, 2021 12:29 PM
       Subject To Question (by 6x6 [TN]) Nov 17, 2021 12:48 PM
       Subject To Question (by Ken [NY]) Nov 17, 2021 12:51 PM
       Subject To Question (by Nicole [PA]) Nov 17, 2021 1:10 PM
       Subject To Question (by 6x6 [TN]) Nov 17, 2021 1:11 PM
       Subject To Question (by Ken [NY]) Nov 17, 2021 1:33 PM
       Subject To Question (by Nicole [PA]) Nov 17, 2021 1:46 PM
       Subject To Question (by 6x6 [TN]) Nov 17, 2021 2:24 PM
       Subject To Question (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Nov 18, 2021 9:21 AM

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Subject To Question (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Nov 16, 2021 9:41 PM
Message:

So I serve on the local regional sewer authority. We had an owner occupied customer elect not to pay sewer bills to the tune of just over $20,500 including legal fees. They have a well so the authority couldn't simply just turn the water off like they do in the city. Nope this house is in the township surrounding the city.

The title search on the place shows where the owners took out a mortgage in 2004 for $60,000. It doesn't show any foreclosure actions filed, but it also shows where this mortgage was recently just purchased by an obscure sounding company. In Pa, there is no way for certain to know what the current loan balance is, without directly contacting the note holder.

The sewer authority did end up taking this property to Sherriff Sale after the owner refused to pay. The sewer authority is now the new owners. The former owners are still in the building and need to get ejected. Best we can figure, the only folks who know what owed against the place are the note holder and the former owners. It might be, that the note holder is not even aware of the note as it has been sold a few times over the years - so it has been a hot potato.

So multiple parts to this question

1) Think the sewer authority should contact the new note holder or let sleeping dogs lye?

2) How do you recommend an authority get the former owners out of the building? Think cash for keys when you are an authority is alright?

3) This property seems ripe for subject to, but how do you find out what is owed to see if it makes sense at all when you have a unfriendly or uncooperative party involved.

Property would cash flow and there should be some equity buried into this thing. But then again, who is going to buy a place where you don't know how much is owed against it?

--24.101.xxx.xxx




Subject To Question (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Nov 16, 2021 9:42 PM
Message:

BTW - since I am on the board, I am not allowed to bid on this place, but it would be good to pick some of your minds - like Ken --24.101.xxx.xxx




Subject To Question (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Nov 16, 2021 10:21 PM
Message:

I think you have a title problem because lack of sufficient service. Why wasn't the first lien holder notified of the sale? I'm 99.99% sure a notice goes to "all parties of interest" or something along those lines. --98.237.xxx.xx




Subject To Question (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Nov 16, 2021 11:08 PM
Message:

I am assuming the solicitor did that.

That is the reason why I am thinking that this mortgage fell through the cracks.

I know in the past we have notified the note holder and they paid the back sewer bill. That didn't happen this time around --24.101.xxx.xxx




Subject To Question (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Nov 16, 2021 11:40 PM
Message:

Ray,

A title search is cheap.

1. In Indiana we must foreclose to get it to Sheriff sale so all parties would have been notified.

Consider contacting the mortgage holder - perhaps they would buy it from the sewer co.

2. Out? Ask the court for a sheriff assist. (Lockout). Or just tell them to go.

3. In Indiana no mortgages are owed after a sheriff sale.

Locally our rural sewer util will dig down and install a locking valve. Not difficult. No more flow and $1500 fee to open the valve.

THIS is why we handle the sewer bill for those homes.

BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx




Subject To Question (by Robert J [CA]) Posted on: Nov 17, 2021 12:23 AM
Message:

I had a commercial tenant who was pouring down the drain dangerous chemicals. So I sent down the air stack into the sewer line of their suite a inflatable plug, cutting them off from the sewer system. I also gathered a sample, via a thin hose and vacuum and got proof of them adding metal to the sewer waste water. --47.155.xx.xxx




Subject To Question (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Nov 17, 2021 7:22 AM
Message:

There are roughly 20-25 total accounts that gotten the the unmanageable level for the authority. The state DEP doesn't allow for us to shut off service.

I do think though perhaps we could force them to pull an on lot permit.

At first thought you would think the note holder would want this issue corrected. But the note holder stays in a number one position and the authority is in number two (no pun).

So what happens when the number one does not act? --24.101.xxx.xxx




Subject To Question (by plenty [MO]) Posted on: Nov 17, 2021 7:59 AM
Message:

Doesn't the sewer utility have a go-lawyer to handle these situations. It's interesting to understand the position and look for Reinvestment opportunities. Especially unique maybe untapped sources like this. Being in the boards for homeowners association, I will follow your post. Such properties are bought for cash flow, the rest seems to work out. Following. --172.58.xxx.xx




Subject To Question (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Nov 17, 2021 8:58 AM
Message:

You can estimate the balance due on the mortgage with the beginning balance and length of time till pay off which you can get from the mortgage.If there was a recent assignment of mortgage sometimes that is an indication of missed payments if MERS is involved because they have to get the mortgage assigned to the correct bank before they start the foreclosure.I mail a list of recent assignments and hear from a lot of people who just started missing payments.I would call the bank for a couple reasons,a junior lein holder who forecloses has the right to make payments to the first mortgage holder as i understand it so i would call the bank and maybe they will talk to you but also if you are standing in front of a judge at some point maybe during a foreclosure it would be nice to be able to tell the judge you called and they refused to give you any info.I would think you should do an eviction with an attorney,i would not want to try to explain to someone at a meeting that you gave them cash to move out,everyone will think you are nuts,the only people who would understand that idea are other landlords or worse they might think you scammed some money out of the deal,most people find it hard to believe non payers dont just move when the landlord tells them to --72.231.xxx.xxx




Subject To Question (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Nov 17, 2021 9:22 AM
Message:

I would have thought that the sheriff sale would have to have been known to the note holder?

Otherwise, how would the sale have even been possible?

Following --73.120.xx.xxx




Subject To Question (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Nov 17, 2021 11:35 AM
Message:

6x6 The first note holder probably was notified but it doesnt really matter either way because they remain in first position so they didnt have to respond --72.231.xxx.xxx




Subject To Question (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Nov 17, 2021 12:29 PM
Message:

Random thoughts.

Does the property owner have any idea what is going on?

Perhaps the owner is in a skilled nursing facility and really doesn't know what's going on. Was there personal service to the property owner of your foreclosure action and the sale notices? Perhaps Junior signed for Senior who no longer lives there and Senior has no idea.

File for depositions and "Interrogatories in Aide of Execution". The solicitor would need to tell you if you can do this. In other words, do they still owe the money since you took the property? As in what if they owe $25,000 to the sewer and $60,000 to the lender but you can only sell the property for $70,000.

Have the solicitor send them a letter giving perhaps three options of what to do with a short response time and have the constable deliver it.

File for ejectment sooner rather than later as that process will take a while.

Is there a redemption period?

Are real estate taxes paid? --98.237.xxx.xx




Subject To Question (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Nov 17, 2021 12:48 PM
Message:

Thank you Ken.

So, who is the actual owner of the property at this point?

--73.120.xx.xxx




Subject To Question (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Nov 17, 2021 12:51 PM
Message:

6x6 The sewer authority is the owner,the unnamed bank has a first mortgage --72.231.xxx.xxx




Subject To Question (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Nov 17, 2021 1:10 PM
Message:

Also remember, the lender can now call the loan because of the 'due on sale' clause. Certainly a process that won't happen quickly but when they discover what happened, the are going to want paid in full. --98.237.xxx.xx




Subject To Question (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Nov 17, 2021 1:11 PM
Message:

Ken, does the sewer company owe the mortgage then?

I guess the original home owner owes the mortgage but the mortgage company could foreclose on the property no matter who bought it from the sale?

Sorry for my confusion, I am still having trouble figuring out how all this works. --73.120.xx.xxx




Subject To Question (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Nov 17, 2021 1:33 PM
Message:

Nicole,i am pretty sure when a junior position forecloses they have the right to make payments,not 100% sure but pretty confident so assuming that is the case the due on sale would not be able to be enforced. 6x6 there is a mortgage on the property which could be enforced,noone at the sewer authority signed the note so the only thing the bank can do is foreclose on the property so tecnically the sewer authority does not owe the mortgage but if they dont want it foreclosed they will straighten it out --72.231.xxx.xxx




Subject To Question (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Nov 17, 2021 1:46 PM
Message:

Ken, not sure either how that would work.

6 x 6 - VERY generally/generically/non-lawyerly. The Note obligates the individual who signs it. The Mortgage (or Deed of Trust depending on the state) obligates the real estate as the lender's security if the Note holder fails to pay. --98.237.xxx.xx




Subject To Question (by 6x6 [TN]) Posted on: Nov 17, 2021 2:24 PM
Message:

Thank you Ken and Nicole --73.120.xx.xxx




Subject To Question (by Ray-N-Pa [PA]) Posted on: Nov 18, 2021 9:21 AM
Message:

The municipal authority does have TWO attorneys on its staff - a senior one who has been with us for about 11 years and a second one who just got their license. They know what is going on. This isn't just five folks from duck dynasty taking a place with some shot guns.

Does the owner know what is going on? Monthly for the past 8 years they have been receiving sewer bills. The township sectary has reached out, the billing agency supervisor and the legal counsel all reached out.

Finally enough has been enough and the legal notices about the sheriff sale based on no less than 11 judgements that have stacked up over this time.

Based on what little I do know on a personal level, Grandpa might have some questions as too where is his money going.....It is not going to the delinquent sewer bills. Grandpa has asked the township and then the sewer authority what he can do. The sewer authority is not willing to enter into a payment plan with them at this point.

That said though, a payment plan for an investor might be the way for the authority to make the numbers work out for an investor. If an investor can get positive cash flow without having too much money into the deal, that could help balance the risk associated with the unknown note balance.

I am not sure what is going on at a personal level with the former owner. Maybe drugs, gambling or mental illness - chronic fear followed by being burying your head in the sand. At th3 authority - we just know that we will be chasing down $179,000 in delinquent bills - of which only one is a landlord. --24.101.xxx.xxx



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