I need a legal opinion on this one.

With government making it harder and harder to screen for bad actors, we need an alternative. Suppose I created a Google doc where I put the name, DOB, and reason why I would not personally ever rent to an individual again, and shared it with other landlords.

Would I be breaking a law? Is there a LEGITIMATE reason I could be sued for this? Yes, I'm talking about creating a blacklist. If I'm stating facts and sharing my personal opinion, am I not within my rights of fair speech? Please tell me why I can't do this. I'm getting a little weary of people placing responsibility for their life choices on anyone but themselves.

Robin,

Thin ice. Super thin ice. Maybe even no ice.

Before free access to court records our assoc had a list labeled “Call me for a reference on these people”. Just the res’ name and the LL’s phone number. Our atty about had a heart attack when he found out. We dropped the list.

We have a new judge who is not helping, so LLs are avoiding court which means fewer court records.

Why me? I'm not even an attorney?

Its an idea that I have been spreading around for a long time. Landlords put into database their recommendations and members can ask for a report (NU, Jeffrey?) Credit reports, bad-check reports, previous employment recommendations are all available, why not tenant recommendations?

Yes, you need a GOOD attorney, who can deal with all states as well as intrastate (all 50 of them). Yes, you need insurance to cover seemingly nonsense lawsuits, when a creative attorney can make something out of it. And, yes, you need a good IT guy to put it efficiently on-line.

And, of course, according to the rule of action-reaction, you can expect laws to forbid such a thing.

But it merits careful study.

Robin,

Thinking...

With my local group we took an offensive position rather than defensive.

I push free court records with membership, credit reports, in home visits, etc

AND

pay a few bucks to list that res on MrLandlord’s credit report agency..

I cannot force LLs to check. Heck, we average 50 move outs per year and only get inquiries from a tiny handful (if ANY!) reference requests. Even from the banks underwriting a new mortgage for my res.

Even when we had that list MOST never used it. And we could not get LLs to add to it.

Google has TONS of info on each of us. If we could only tap into Google’s private data...

I think the legal problem is that anyone can sue anybody for anything. You don't have to be in the wrong to get sued and the progressives use the threat of lawsuit to bully anyone who won't toe the party line.

It would probably need to be offshore with hidden ownership.

Something must be figured out with various states blocking eviction reports and disallowing access to court filings. Laws against rejecting criminals mean that criminal background reports will get shut off.

Juice isn't worth the squeeze.

We are small time land lords here. Most of us have 50 or fewer units. We can find out everything we need with a few simple steps:

1) Pull credit.

2) Contact past land lords.

3) Verify income and employment.

4) 2-minute in home inspection. **

**Why do people REFUSE to do this step? It's EASY and 100% more effective than any other tool in the LL's toolbox. Outsource it if you can't stand the thought of viewing someone elses' home. Come up with an excuse to get your or your assistant inside. "I need your signature on this form... insurance wants a picture of your pet in his home setting... this is what we do to verify residency.... I'm in the area and will swing by..." Whatever it is, do it!

Good, cooperative renters won't mind. They want you to see their clean, tidy house and meet their sweet little snuckums. The bad, uncooperative renters will come up with ANY EXCUSE for you NOT to stop by because snuckums ate the mini-blinds and poops all over and they never clean up.

There's your sign!

Can you imagine the room for abuse with a black list system like that, especially if everyone wants to keep themselves anonymous to avoid lawsuits?

It IT, we have a phrase: "You code it; you support it." Can you imagine the effort required to identify legit land lords posting legit reviews? Oh man! Most are lazy and won't do it. Those who do, a percentage will be "flamers"....they'll go into hyper drama mode over someone who didn't mow the yard for 8 days and make it sound like that person was the tenant from "He**".

You put up such a list, who will support it? Who will police it? Who will enforce standards to ensure it is quality?

UGH!

We need to do what lenders and banks do with credit scores and generate a tenant, Good Tenant Score. When someone does well put in info that they paid on time, called timely for repairs, honored Lease etc. When evicted a negative score.

At the obvious risk of being labelled..

I can verify that NE is a redneck (is that even an allowable term in such a racially "equal" society?), and I enjoy the diversity of opinion that he and everyone else offers.

Sid, great points on ways to effectively screen. However,

1) Pull credit. One city where we rent has just made it illegal to discriminate based on source of income. My crystal ball is crystal clear on this point. It's only a matter of time before credit reports can no longer be used.

2) Contact past land lords. How many are willing to give an honest reference in this day and age? NE would. Too many other LLs have been intimidated by their lawyers and are afraid to give even facts. Many won't even respond to requests.

3) Verify income and employment. Still works, but for how long?

4) 2-minute in home inspection. ** Yes, absolutely, and I do this. But it doesn't matter if I can't see how lousy their credit is and don't know whether they were horrible nasty people with their previous LL.

I dunno.

Check with a GOOD lawyer.

YELP provides reviews on businesses, but no names are given. Credit reports and bad-check reviews are on-line, its possible that there is some way for it not to be so much a stupid stupid stupid idea. But it is certainly true that no one should go off half-cocked without considering what the possible consequences might be.

J, being on "the Blacklist" isn't grounds for a discrimination lawsuit.

You are evidently not the kind of lawyer that I suggested that a potential host for a rental applicant review site or database needs to consult. I believe that such an endeavor is possible, legal and legally defensible, but anyone who would attempt such an endeavor needs to do his homework in order to make it legally defensible.

A tenant review needs to protect the reviewer, provide a reviewee with a chance to respond, and make efforts to protect reviewees from mistakes, but with good legal advice, I think that it is feasible.

If the tenant "makes a Fair Housing claim", then who is he going to make the claim against? Why, the landlord who rejected him, of course, not the "you" who provided an "honest" review.

The landlord who is rejecting, is rejecting because of an adverse recommendation of a previous landlord. And THAT is a perfectly good reason according to HUD.

It seems like the main concerns with a blacklist would be

1) Somebody might get sued

2) A landlord might lie about a tenant and say that they're awful when actually they're great, or any issues are actually minor.

In essence, we're creating a reference database. It could be completely factual. How long did they rent from you? Did they pay rent on time? # of times late in the last 12 months? Any complaints from the neighbors? Did you need to post a notice for anything other than late rent? Did they get billed for any damage to the unit? If so, how much? Would you rent to them again?

You will notice that there is NO information about protected classes there. Nothing that could be used to discriminate. All factual, except the "would you rent to them again," and I can't imagine someone being sued for expressing that opinion. A prospect could be denied "based on a negative landlord reference." No further information needed.

For someone to get sued successfully, the tenant would have to

1) be aware that the database existed

2) know what the information was

3) know who provided it

4) demonstrate that it violated their rights

I find it extremely unlikely that all four of those would happen. For #4, on what legal grounds could a tenant sue? The only one I can think of is libel. So if contributors were honest in what they report, there would be nothing to worry about.

A landlord can lie about an ex-tenant if he is telephoned for a reference. Same thing for a database.

Who would be sued? The owner of the database? The landlord who submitted the recommendation? The landlord is protected by 1st amendment.

If tenant feels that he has been wronged, he can claim slander, but I don't think that libel applies, since recommendation is based on tenant's acts.

YELP doesn't print reviewers' names, only initials and city and date. LL submitting review is no more liable for libel or slander because he posted on a database, than if he gave the recommendation personally.

I suppose that database owner should release information only by confidential email, rather than publicly for anyone to see.

Robin,

Great discussion! I agree with your frustration. As liberal, non-real-world lawmakers continue to support the dregs of society WE must vigorously adapt.

I will comment that in some ways the internet has made screening easier - FB, Instagram...

Thinking...BBB does this with businesses.

My guess is they are not bound by Fair Housing laws.

When people contact them about my business BBB replies "We cannot recommend - we have no good reports on them." That's because they do not collect good reports because I am not a paying member of BBB.

They told me "For a mere $465 per year they will give me an A+ rating. Or A++ for $XXXX. "

I wonder if using a criteria other than renting would squeeze past Fair Housing. Behavior? Debt? Parking? Trash removal? Verbal assault?

The problem with our list, while it lasted, was lack of participation by the LLs. So even a list was incomplete info for screening.

Lousy landlords rent to lousy applicants then kick them out without going to court. The good LL is fooled when seeing a clean court record for the past 5 years.

Robin,

Great discussion! I agree with your frustration. As liberal, non-real-world lawmakers continue to support the dregs of society WE must vigorously adapt.

I will comment that in some ways the internet has made screening easier - FB, Instagram...

Thinking...BBB does this with businesses.

My guess is they are not bound by Fair Housing laws.

When people contact them about my business BBB replies "We cannot recommend - we have no good reports on them." That's because they do not collect good reports because I am not a paying member of BBB.

They told me "For a mere $465 per year they will give me an A+ rating. Or A++ for $XXXX. "

I wonder if using a criteria other than renting would squeeze past Fair Housing. Behavior? Debt? Parking? Trash removal? Verbal assault?

The problem with our list, while it lasted, was lack of participation by the LLs. So even a list was incomplete info for screening.

Lousy landlords rent to lousy applicants then kick them out without going to court. The good LL is fooled when seeing a clean court record for the past 5 years.