Blacklist ? for Moshe
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Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Robin [WI]) Oct 17, 2021 8:36 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Jason [VA]) Oct 17, 2021 9:01 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Oct 17, 2021 9:05 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Oct 17, 2021 9:09 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Robin [WI]) Oct 17, 2021 9:14 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Still Learning [NH]) Oct 17, 2021 10:48 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Moshe [CA]) Oct 17, 2021 11:40 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Oct 18, 2021 12:11 AM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Nicole [PA]) Oct 18, 2021 9:20 AM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Ken [NY]) Oct 18, 2021 10:57 AM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Oct 18, 2021 11:22 AM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Oct 18, 2021 11:25 AM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Vee [OH]) Oct 18, 2021 11:54 AM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by S i d [MO]) Oct 18, 2021 12:09 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Lana [IN]) Oct 18, 2021 1:09 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Pmh [TX]) Oct 18, 2021 5:26 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Oct 18, 2021 5:36 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Pmh [TX]) Oct 18, 2021 5:44 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Oct 18, 2021 6:12 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Pmh [TX]) Oct 18, 2021 6:40 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Oct 18, 2021 6:49 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Oct 18, 2021 6:51 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Oct 18, 2021 6:53 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by bee [NH]) Oct 18, 2021 7:37 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Oct 18, 2021 7:39 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Robin [WI]) Oct 18, 2021 9:43 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Moshe [CA]) Oct 18, 2021 11:47 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by J [FL]) Oct 19, 2021 2:54 AM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Moshe [CA]) Oct 19, 2021 12:31 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by J [FL]) Oct 19, 2021 12:53 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Moshe [CA]) Oct 19, 2021 1:23 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Ken [NY]) Oct 19, 2021 2:02 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Robin [WI]) Oct 19, 2021 2:51 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Mick [CA]) Oct 19, 2021 4:02 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Moshe [CA]) Oct 19, 2021 4:25 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by JB [OR]) Oct 19, 2021 5:08 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Oct 19, 2021 5:25 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Pmh [TX]) Oct 19, 2021 5:54 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Oct 20, 2021 12:13 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Oct 20, 2021 12:13 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Oct 20, 2021 12:18 PM
       Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Pmh [TX]) Oct 20, 2021 4:21 PM


Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Oct 17, 2021 8:36 PM
Message:

I need a legal opinion on this one.

With government making it harder and harder to screen for bad actors, we need an alternative. Suppose I created a Google doc where I put the name, DOB, and reason why I would not personally ever rent to an individual again, and shared it with other landlords.

Would I be breaking a law? Is there a LEGITIMATE reason I could be sued for this? Yes, I'm talking about creating a blacklist. If I'm stating facts and sharing my personal opinion, am I not within my rights of fair speech? Please tell me why I can't do this. I'm getting a little weary of people placing responsibility for their life choices on anyone but themselves.

--104.230.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Jason [VA]) Posted on: Oct 17, 2021 9:01 PM
Message:

I think a database that we all contribute to would be a great idea. As far as legality, as long as itís based on fact, who cares. Have the deadbeats cry us a river. --172.58.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Oct 17, 2021 9:05 PM
Message:

Robin,

Thin ice. Super thin ice. Maybe even no ice.

Before free access to court records our assoc had a list labeled ďCall me for a reference on these peopleĒ. Just the resí name and the LLís phone number. Our atty about had a heart attack when he found out. We dropped the list.

We have a new judge who is not helping, so LLs are avoiding court which means fewer court records.

BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 17, 2021 9:09 PM
Message:

What if you created a Facebook page through an overseas proxy VA? Keep a back up for when it gets canned and just reload it onto another one? Rinse and repeat. --24.152.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Oct 17, 2021 9:14 PM
Message:

Yes, I know. Lawyers are horror-stricken at EVERYTHING. I want to know on what legal basis I could be sued for expressing an opinion? --104.230.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Still Learning [NH]) Posted on: Oct 17, 2021 10:48 PM
Message:

Itís my understanding you can have a list but the list must contain the good, bad and the ugly. The prospective landlord calls the new landlord for the reference. --198.233.xxx.xxx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Oct 17, 2021 11:40 PM
Message:

Why me? I'm not even an attorney?

Its an idea that I have been spreading around for a long time. Landlords put into database their recommendations and members can ask for a report (NU, Jeffrey?) Credit reports, bad-check reports, previous employment recommendations are all available, why not tenant recommendations?

Yes, you need a GOOD attorney, who can deal with all states as well as intrastate (all 50 of them). Yes, you need insurance to cover seemingly nonsense lawsuits, when a creative attorney can make something out of it. And, yes, you need a good IT guy to put it efficiently on-line.

And, of course, according to the rule of action-reaction, you can expect laws to forbid such a thing.

But it merits careful study.

--47.139.xx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 12:11 AM
Message:

Robin,

Thinking...

With my local group we took an offensive position rather than defensive.

I push free court records with membership, credit reports, in home visits, etc

AND

pay a few bucks to list that res on MrLandlordís credit report agency..

I cannot force LLs to check. Heck, we average 50 move outs per year and only get inquiries from a tiny handful (if ANY!) reference requests. Even from the banks underwriting a new mortgage for my res.

Even when we had that list MOST never used it. And we could not get LLs to add to it.

Google has TONS of info on each of us. If we could only tap into Googleís private data...

BRAD --73.102.xxx.xxx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Nicole [PA]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 9:20 AM
Message:

Years ago an association near me created such a list. Yep - the association's lawyer had them shut it down almost immediately. So the list became verbal and the culprits were discussed at the monthly meetings in "casual" conversation. --98.237.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 10:57 AM
Message:

The last group i was involved with we had a list for all former tenants of members. i preferred that since i would like to know if someone had a good tenant as opposed to just not on the list atall --72.231.xxx.xxx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 11:22 AM
Message:

I think the legal problem is that anyone can sue anybody for anything. You don't have to be in the wrong to get sued and the progressives use the threat of lawsuit to bully anyone who won't toe the party line.

It would probably need to be offshore with hidden ownership.

Another problem I can see is that folks with a grudge might put others on the list falsely, so there would have to be a way to verify that the report was from a legitimate landlord and about someone who was really their tenant. --76.178.xxx.xxx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Oregon Woodsmoke [ID]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 11:25 AM
Message:

Something must be figured out with various states blocking eviction reports and disallowing access to court filings. Laws against rejecting criminals mean that criminal background reports will get shut off.

I won't be surprised if it becomes against the law to use a credit report for screening tenants. --76.178.xxx.xxx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Vee [OH]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 11:54 AM
Message:

I would suggest doing this in western afrika where slave owners are still operating in what some call -colonial- times, the bola server... --76.188.xxx.xxx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by S i d [MO]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 12:09 PM
Message:

Juice isn't worth the squeeze.

We are small time land lords here. Most of us have 50 or fewer units. We can find out everything we need with a few simple steps:

1) Pull credit.

2) Contact past land lords.

3) Verify income and employment.

4) 2-minute in home inspection. **

**Why do people REFUSE to do this step? It's EASY and 100% more effective than any other tool in the LL's toolbox. Outsource it if you can't stand the thought of viewing someone elses' home. Come up with an excuse to get your or your assistant inside. "I need your signature on this form... insurance wants a picture of your pet in his home setting... this is what we do to verify residency.... I'm in the area and will swing by..." Whatever it is, do it!

Good, cooperative renters won't mind. They want you to see their clean, tidy house and meet their sweet little snuckums. The bad, uncooperative renters will come up with ANY EXCUSE for you NOT to stop by because snuckums ate the mini-blinds and poops all over and they never clean up.

There's your sign!

Can you imagine the room for abuse with a black list system like that, especially if everyone wants to keep themselves anonymous to avoid lawsuits?

It IT, we have a phrase: "You code it; you support it." Can you imagine the effort required to identify legit land lords posting legit reviews? Oh man! Most are lazy and won't do it. Those who do, a percentage will be "flamers"....they'll go into hyper drama mode over someone who didn't mow the yard for 8 days and make it sound like that person was the tenant from "He**".

You put up such a list, who will support it? Who will police it? Who will enforce standards to ensure it is quality?

UGH!

When you have so many easier, cheaper, less-time-consuming ways to screen....the juice ain't worth the squeeze. Sid's 2 cents. --108.230.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Lana [IN]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 1:09 PM
Message:

We need to do what lenders and banks do with credit scores and generate a tenant, Good Tenant Score. When someone does well put in info that they paid on time, called timely for repairs, honored Lease etc. When evicted a negative score.

Unfortunately banks have more power than Landlords. --216.23.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Pmh [TX]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 5:26 PM
Message:

stupid stupid stupid idea Robin. donít go down that rabbit hole. on a side note: perhaps learn what ďfree speechĒ IS. I am just blown away by what you think you can do. Is not that you can say/write what you want. posting names, dob, etc. you must be a troll. --107.77.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 5:36 PM
Message:

I can verify that Robin is not a troll. Is she wrong for wanting to blacklist in this day and age? Iíd say that sheís 100% on point with wanting to do that. With all the Libtard regulations coming out, what for-profit landlord would not want access to one? If not out in the open, then definitely underground. Canít check credit, canít screen for evictions. Canít use not paying rent during Convid-19as a way to screen them out. Get real! I say blacklist away. --24.152.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Pmh [TX]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 5:44 PM
Message:

I would repeat my whole post to you NE but am so astounded by your response also I wonít. I will repeat stupid, stupid & stupid though in case you missed that part. --107.77.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 6:12 PM
Message:

Itís a new world PMH. --24.152.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Pmh [TX]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 6:40 PM
Message:

ne: you are living in the past if you think you can do what you say....regards. --107.77.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 6:49 PM
Message:

Oh no, with this, I am living in the future. I donít expect you to get this though. I am all for breaking the rules in 2 specific situations. When the rules are CONVID-19 related or the rules are woke. If I canít check credit, that is a woke rule. If I canít use Convid evictions as a negative, thatís Convid related. If I canít use an actual normal circumstances eviction as a way to screen out a tenant whoís coming into my unit, that is libtard woke policy. Absolutely I want a way to break those rules. But You can feel better and just tell me that Iím an i diot and a dumb redneck and a poor business person and a slumlord. --24.152.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 6:51 PM
Message:

Also, I donít think that we CAN do the blacklist. I know that is a thing of the past. I just donít have a problem with people doing it. Thatís all Iím saying. If you could find a way to do it, go for it! The odds are so stacked against us, that it is now a matter of risk versus reward. If you canít screen for an eviction and you have to let deadbeats in there who have a career of causing $10,000 in damage at every unit they go into, then blacklist them! Pay the $2000 fine. Youíll be ahead of the game. --24.152.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 6:53 PM
Message:

Also, ďliving in the pastĒ, is still thinking that you still have to play fair. Playing fair went out the window in March 2020. In my opinion, for the forseeable future. I do not care anymore. --24.152.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by bee [NH]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 7:37 PM
Message:

At the obvious risk of being labelled..

Is 'blacklisting' even an allowable term in such a racially 'equal' society? --98.229.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 7:39 PM
Message:

Bee, in the ďwokeĒ circle, no. In the normal person circle where we know what each other is talking about and 2+2 still equals 4, yes! --24.152.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 9:43 PM
Message:

I can verify that NE is a redneck (is that even an allowable term in such a racially "equal" society?), and I enjoy the diversity of opinion that he and everyone else offers.

Sid, great points on ways to effectively screen. However,

1) Pull credit. One city where we rent has just made it illegal to discriminate based on source of income. My crystal ball is crystal clear on this point. It's only a matter of time before credit reports can no longer be used.

2) Contact past land lords. How many are willing to give an honest reference in this day and age? NE would. Too many other LLs have been intimidated by their lawyers and are afraid to give even facts. Many won't even respond to requests.

3) Verify income and employment. Still works, but for how long?

4) 2-minute in home inspection. ** Yes, absolutely, and I do this. But it doesn't matter if I can't see how lousy their credit is and don't know whether they were horrible nasty people with their previous LL.

I think this could be done easily. Set up a Google Sheets with a burner gmail address. Don't set it to track changes so people can make contributions anonymously. To get access to the Google Sheets, you have to introduce yourself to me personally at the next MrLL convention or be introduced to me by someone who knows me. After 10 years, entries get deleted, because some people DO grow up. What do you think? --104.230.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Oct 18, 2021 11:47 PM
Message:

I dunno.

Check with a GOOD lawyer.

YELP provides reviews on businesses, but no names are given. Credit reports and bad-check reviews are on-line, its possible that there is some way for it not to be so much a stupid stupid stupid idea. But it is certainly true that no one should go off half-cocked without considering what the possible consequences might be.

--47.139.xx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by J [FL]) Posted on: Oct 19, 2021 2:54 AM
Message:

I can see how the blacklist might help in getting rid of a bad applicant, but on the off chance the person makes a discrimination claim, saying "they were on the blacklist" as your defense isn't going to cut it. So you still have a problem. --72.188.xxx.xxx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Oct 19, 2021 12:31 PM
Message:

J, being on "the Blacklist" isn't grounds for a discrimination lawsuit.

You are evidently not the kind of lawyer that I suggested that a potential host for a rental applicant review site or database needs to consult. I believe that such an endeavor is possible, legal and legally defensible, but anyone who would attempt such an endeavor needs to do his homework in order to make it legally defensible.

A tenant review needs to protect the reviewer, provide a reviewee with a chance to respond, and make efforts to protect reviewees from mistakes, but with good legal advice, I think that it is feasible.

--47.139.xx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by J [FL]) Posted on: Oct 19, 2021 12:53 PM
Message:

What if the tenant makes a Fair Housing claim? When HUD asks you why you denied this applicant are you going to say "they were on our local blacklist"? Does not sound like a response HUD would accept. --72.188.xxx.xxx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Oct 19, 2021 1:23 PM
Message:

If the tenant "makes a Fair Housing claim", then who is he going to make the claim against? Why, the landlord who rejected him, of course, not the "you" who provided an "honest" review.

The landlord who is rejecting, is rejecting because of an adverse recommendation of a previous landlord. And THAT is a perfectly good reason according to HUD.

--47.139.xx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Ken [NY]) Posted on: Oct 19, 2021 2:02 PM
Message:

J,my answer would be whoever the landlord from the list was who had rented to him previously and tell them what i was told and show them the app showing he never gave me the name of the landlord but i found it myself --72.231.xxx.xxx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Robin [WI]) Posted on: Oct 19, 2021 2:51 PM
Message:

It seems like the main concerns with a blacklist would be

1) Somebody might get sued

2) A landlord might lie about a tenant and say that they're awful when actually they're great, or any issues are actually minor.

In essence, we're creating a reference database. It could be completely factual. How long did they rent from you? Did they pay rent on time? # of times late in the last 12 months? Any complaints from the neighbors? Did you need to post a notice for anything other than late rent? Did they get billed for any damage to the unit? If so, how much? Would you rent to them again?

You will notice that there is NO information about protected classes there. Nothing that could be used to discriminate. All factual, except the "would you rent to them again," and I can't imagine someone being sued for expressing that opinion. A prospect could be denied "based on a negative landlord reference." No further information needed.

For someone to get sued successfully, the tenant would have to

1) be aware that the database existed

2) know what the information was

3) know who provided it

4) demonstrate that it violated their rights

I find it extremely unlikely that all four of those would happen. For #4, on what legal grounds could a tenant sue? The only one I can think of is libel. So if contributors were honest in what they report, there would be nothing to worry about.

Feel free to shoot holes in my argument. I'd like to hear something based on specific law other than "our fearful lawyer said don't do it." --104.230.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Mick [CA]) Posted on: Oct 19, 2021 4:02 PM
Message:

I was thinking a group could be formed to put in the eviction address & not use names. So, if I had an eviction at 357 Dogwood Lane, someone could search that address. --184.176.xx.xxx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Moshe [CA]) Posted on: Oct 19, 2021 4:25 PM
Message:

A landlord can lie about an ex-tenant if he is telephoned for a reference. Same thing for a database.

Who would be sued? The owner of the database? The landlord who submitted the recommendation? The landlord is protected by 1st amendment.

If tenant feels that he has been wronged, he can claim slander, but I don't think that libel applies, since recommendation is based on tenant's acts.

YELP doesn't print reviewers' names, only initials and city and date. LL submitting review is no more liable for libel or slander because he posted on a database, than if he gave the recommendation personally.

I suppose that database owner should release information only by confidential email, rather than publicly for anyone to see.

--47.139.xx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by JB [OR]) Posted on: Oct 19, 2021 5:08 PM
Message:

I really like the way you're thinking, Robin. With some good advice from an attorney(s) at one of the many REIAs maybe we can come up with a workable way to make it happen. --73.25.xx.xxx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Landlord ofthe Flies [TX]) Posted on: Oct 19, 2021 5:25 PM
Message:

I think this will eventually happen when they outlaw security deposits and landlords require deposit insurance. Tenants that fail underwriting will be denied. There's your blacklist. --108.69.xxx.xxx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Pmh [TX]) Posted on: Oct 19, 2021 5:54 PM
Message:

ne: I canít disagree with your description of yourself.... --107.77.xxx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Oct 20, 2021 12:13 PM
Message:

Robin,

Great discussion! I agree with your frustration. As liberal, non-real-world lawmakers continue to support the dregs of society WE must vigorously adapt.

I will comment that in some ways the internet has made screening easier - FB, Instagram...

Thinking...BBB does this with businesses.

My guess is they are not bound by Fair Housing laws.

When people contact them about my business BBB replies "We cannot recommend - we have no good reports on them." That's because they do not collect good reports because I am not a paying member of BBB.

They told me "For a mere $465 per year they will give me an A+ rating. Or A++ for $XXXX. "

I wonder if using a criteria other than renting would squeeze past Fair Housing. Behavior? Debt? Parking? Trash removal? Verbal assault?

The problem with our list, while it lasted, was lack of participation by the LLs. So even a list was incomplete info for screening.

Lousy landlords rent to lousy applicants then kick them out without going to court. The good LL is fooled when seeing a clean court record for the past 5 years.

BRAD --174.202.xx.xxx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by BRAD 20,000 [IN]) Posted on: Oct 20, 2021 12:13 PM
Message:

Robin,

Great discussion! I agree with your frustration. As liberal, non-real-world lawmakers continue to support the dregs of society WE must vigorously adapt.

I will comment that in some ways the internet has made screening easier - FB, Instagram...

Thinking...BBB does this with businesses.

My guess is they are not bound by Fair Housing laws.

When people contact them about my business BBB replies "We cannot recommend - we have no good reports on them." That's because they do not collect good reports because I am not a paying member of BBB.

They told me "For a mere $465 per year they will give me an A+ rating. Or A++ for $XXXX. "

I wonder if using a criteria other than renting would squeeze past Fair Housing. Behavior? Debt? Parking? Trash removal? Verbal assault?

The problem with our list, while it lasted, was lack of participation by the LLs. So even a list was incomplete info for screening.

Lousy landlords rent to lousy applicants then kick them out without going to court. The good LL is fooled when seeing a clean court record for the past 5 years.

BRAD --174.202.xx.xxx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by NE [PA]) Posted on: Oct 20, 2021 12:18 PM
Message:

Pmh, itís a dirty job, but somebodyís gotta do it. --174.198.xx.xx




Blacklist ? for Moshe (by Pmh [TX]) Posted on: Oct 20, 2021 4:21 PM
Message:

NE. lol. best// --107.77.xxx.xx





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